Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Fincra5]

Lol Why's that?

And while you're at it care to explain how this is acceptable to the Lords at ASLEF....View attachment 104446

But this wiper is so dangerous they're instructing their members to not train on new units.
View attachment 104447

Oh and also how hundreds or if not thousands of drivers have massive diesel locos behind them but swr drivers can't concentrate with a fan on.

Your attitude. Remember the curved windscreens on 385s that actually caused issues with Signals. Clearly there is something they're unhappy with for a reason.

Rude of them not to tell you directly I know....

 

[theking]

Your attitude. Remember the curved windscreens on 385s that actually caused issues with Signals. Clearly there is something they're unhappy with for a reason.

Rude of them not to tell you directly I know....

A curved windscreen that can make a driver think a single yellow is a double is completely different to saying a windscreen wiper effects the drivers view of a signal when the train in question has a windscreen at least 4 times the size of the stock they currently drive.

You must be one of those types who would walk off a cliff if Aslef told you to, some of us in the grade can think for ourselves.

 

[Fincra5]

A curved windscreen that can make a driver think a single yellow is a double is completely different to saying a windscreen wiper effects the drivers view of a signal when the train in question has a windscreen at least 4 times the size of the stock they currently drive.

You must be one of those types who would walk off a cliff if Aslef told you to, some of us in the grade can think for ourselves.

Do you drive 701s, the SWR network and its depots? If not, how could you know?

For the record, I'm not an ASLEF Member but am aware of the processes that go through signing off a new train.

 

[theking]

Do you drive 701s, the SWR network and its depots? If not, how could you know?

For the record, I'm not an ASLEF Member but am aware of the processes that go through signing off a new train.

You don't need to drive a 701 to know the difference between a windscreen wiper and the restriction gangway stock has on driver visibility.

I've not seen anything in the rule book or sectional appendix or any other network rail literature that says the SWR network has or it's depots have extra super special signals that are the exact width of a wiper blade that means they're obscured.

You still haven't answered my question so I think it's best we leave it but funny how there is 3 tocs out there who drive pretty much this exact class of train who have not had multiple cat a's because of a wiper blade.

 

[Monty]

You still haven't answered my question so I think it's best we leave it but funny how there is 3 tocs out there who drive pretty much this exact class of train who have not had multiple cat a's because of a wiper blade.

But they aren't the 'exact' same at all, each version of the unit has a completely bespoke cab design and profile.

 

[43096]

A curved windscreen that can make a driver think a single yellow is a double is completely different to saying a windscreen wiper effects the drivers view of a signal when the train in question has a windscreen at least 4 times the size of the stock they currently drive.

You must be one of those types who would walk off a cliff if Aslef told you to, some of us in the grade can think for ourselves.

I'd also point out that from what I've seen the wiper on the 701s rests on the off-side when not in use and signals are generally on the left side of the line, so I'm really not understanding the problem. I'd also ask, if they're so bad as to be blacked by the union on SWR, how are GBRf (or whoever is doing the commissioning runs) drivers driving them, as I assume they are ASLEF members too. And let's not get on to how drivers cope with the wipers obscuring the signals on any stock when it's raining...

 

[TRAX]

I'd also point out that from what I've seen the wiper on the 701s rests on the off-side when not in use and signals are generally on the left side of the line, so I'm really not understanding the problem. I'd also ask, if they're so bad as to be blacked by the union on SWR, how are GBRf (or whoever is doing the commissioning runs) drivers driving them, as I assume they are ASLEF members too. And let's not get on to how drivers cope with the wipers obscuring the signals on any stock when it's raining...

And what about when the windscreen is covered in rain ! Do the drivers go on strike, then ?

 

[Fincra5]

You don't need to drive a 701 to know the difference between a windscreen wiper and the restriction gangway stock has on driver visibility.

I've not seen anything in the rule book or sectional appendix or any other network rail literature that says the SWR network has or it's depots have extra super special signals that are the exact width of a wiper blade that means they're obscured.

You still haven't answered my question so I think it's best we leave it but funny how there is 3 tocs out there who drive pretty much this exact class of train who have not had multiple cat a's because of a wiper blade.

Sigh... don't forget there's more to the the issues than the Windscreen Wiper itself.

 

[pompeyfan]

I genuinely don’t understand what’s wrong with the union holding the company and manufacturers to the highest standard? They get paid by their members for exactly this. It’s surely about trying to make things as good as they can be. If Anglia ASLEF want to set the bar low, that’s on them.

 

[Snow1964]

I genuinely don’t understand what’s wrong with the union holding the company and manufacturers to the highest standard? They get paid by their members for exactly this. It’s surely about trying to make things as good as they can be. If Anglia ASLEF want to set the bar low, that’s on them.

Whilst this might be a theoretical ideal, the direct effect of this is to continue their members using 1980s standards 455 & 456 stock.

Its as logical as suggesting members don’t use a new clean, hygienic canteen because it doesn’t have an expresso machine, but continue to use old tatty canteen because that does have a basic coffee machine. (The analogy is something on the side, only used part time, but stopping use of whole project)

Sometimes I feel certain officials would rather prove a point (probably to justify their existence, and pay), than look at the bigger picture.

 

[Val3ntine]

Whilst this might be a theoretical ideal, the direct effect of this is to continue their members using 1980s standards 455 & 456 stock.

Its as logical as suggesting members don’t use a new clean, hygienic canteen because it doesn’t have an expresso machine, but continue to use old tatty canteen because that does have a basic coffee machine. (The analogy is something on the side, only used part time, but stopping use of whole project)

Sometimes I feel certain officials would rather prove a point (probably to justify their existence, and pay), than look at the bigger picture.

I suppose another angle you could see this is, the maximum amount of time the members will have to continue to endure the old stock is lets say 5 more years give or take. The 701’s will be seeing all current members into retirement (perhaps), so why not get it totally right for them at this point that they can.

 

[Idiotic]

What would you rather? Unions to just accept the trains with these issues potentially compromising safety? The good thing about the reps at SWR us they care and have highlighted many issues. Having been in the cab myself the issues that have arose shouldn’t be there. Comparing it to a 345 cab. They are much better and more spacious.

it’s just amazing how spotters become armchair experts and start criticising the way the system works. Safety is number one and the unions are not prepared to put their drivers in front of something which they believe safety could be compromised.

 

[nlogax]

Can someone please explain to the non-rail industry average joe (eg me) what the windscreen wiper safety issue actually is here?

 

[Val3ntine]

Another point, without coming across too bias hopefully, remember unique to the other TOCS SWR had already accepted new trains which went without any major hitches I believe.

It’s a bit unfair to simply accuse SWR union reps of being unreasonable and difficult when it comes to accepting new units, there is now clearly underlying reasons for this. It seems that the 701’s are now a downgrade to the previous accepted new trains. (Regardless of being a potential improvement to the older fleet).

For a start I know for a fact the 707 units are remarkably quiet in the cab. The PBC (driver’s power brake handle) on the Aventra units are a massive downgrade to a majority of older trains in general in my honest opinion; to all their older Electrostar families not to mention every single one of SWR’s existing fleets.
The windscreen wiper issue I’ll admit I’m slightly curious about that one as I believe they to be similar to 707’s in regards to style and position of the blade, however we can’t forget the cab of the 701’s have been massively reduced, so I can imagine perhaps offside signal sighting/right hand platforms are a potential issue.

 

[northernbelle]

Another point, without coming across too bias hopefully, remember unique to the other TOCS SWR had already accepted new trains which went without any major hitches I believe.

It’s a bit unfair to simply accuse SWR union reps of being unreasonable and difficult when it comes to accepting new units, there is now clearly underlying reasons for this. It seems that the 701’s are now a downgrade to the previous accepted new trains. (Regardless of being a potential improvement to the older fleet).

For a start I know for a fact the 707 units are remarkably quiet in the cab. The PBC (driver’s power brake handle) on the Aventra units are a massive downgrade to a majority of older trains in general in my honest opinion; to all their older Electrostar families not to mention every single one of SWR’s existing fleets.
The windscreen wiper issue I’ll admit I’m slightly curious about that one as I believe they to be similar to 707’s in regards to style and position of the blade, however we can’t forget the cab of the 701’s have been massively reduced, so I can imagine perhaps offside signal sighting/right hand platforms are a potential issue.

I suspect the underlying reason being drivers not wanting to be moved to DCO, therefore anything that holds that up is probably seen as worthwhile.

 

[Val3ntine]

I suspect the underlying reason being drivers not wanting to be moved to DCO, therefore anything that holds that up is probably seen as worthwhile.

Understandable to think this, however it’s still inevitable so kind of a pointless exercise. If this was the case DCO would just simply have not been agreed in the first place.

 

[Domh245]

Understandable to think this, however it’s still inevitable so kind of a pointless exercise. If this was the case DCO would just simply have not been agreed in the first place.

Was it not the case that the only agreement that needed reaching was with the guards, drivers having had DOO/DCO written into their contracts since the early days of privatisation?

 

[Val3ntine]

Was it not the case that the only agreement that needed reaching was with the guards, drivers having had DOO/DCO written into their contracts since the early days of privatisation?

I believe so yes.

 

[TEW]

Was it not the case that the only agreement that needed reaching was with the guards, drivers having had DOO/DCO written into their contracts since the early days of privatisation?

It was debatable. The wording was a bit wooly.

 

[444045]

Can anyone assist with Class 701 on 5Q90 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park is running today 47749 hauling unit,
Train dep 53 late.

Thanks in advance.

 

[spark001uk]

5Q90 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs.

47749+701035.
Currently 53L past Burton-on-Trent.

 

[galwhv69]

5Q90 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs.

47749+701035.
Currently 53L past Burton-on-Trent.

Cheers for the info. Might try and photo it around South Acton

 

[444045]

5Q90 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs.

47749+701035.
Currently 53L past Burton-on-Trent.

Thanks for your help.

 

[theageofthetra]

I genuinely don’t understand what’s wrong with the union holding the company and manufacturers to the highest standard? They get paid by their members for exactly this. It’s surely about trying to make things as good as they can be. If Anglia ASLEF want to set the bar low, that’s on them.

Well said. Probably the same reason that SW drivers got one of the best pay deals of any London operator?

 

[Monty]

Issues with Aslef aide there is still a catalogue of problems with these units, software issues, doors opening spontaneously at speed etc etc etc.

 

[galwhv69]

Issues with Aslef aide there is still a catalogue of problems with these units, software issues, doors opening spontaneously at speed etc etc etc.

What?? How often has this happened? Surely they wouldn't be allowed out on test runs with such issues?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Issues with Aslef aide there is still a catalogue of problems with these units, software issues, doors opening spontaneously at speed etc etc etc.

That is basic stuff and how could they be permitted to even get out on the main line if something like this is happening?

Its almost as the software on these units is different from 720's

 

[fgwrich]

Issues with Aslef aide there is still a catalogue of problems with these units, software issues, doors opening spontaneously at speed etc etc etc.

Somewhat concerning but not surprising - a few of the delivery runs noted over the last year had a few doors open, noticeably the cab doors, How they stayed in gauge I don't know. I've also seen a cab door come off it's runners at Basingstoke and other cab door issues seem to be plaguing them as well. Alstom must be coming close to regretting that purchase of Bombardier by now!

 

[adc82140]

That is basic stuff and how could they be permitted to even get out on the main line if something like this is happening?

Its almost as the software on these units is different from 720's

Is it a software issue, or are the doors coming open at speed as the result of a mechanical fault?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Is it a software issue, or are the doors coming open at speed as the result of a mechanical fault?

surely not different doors to 720's which regularly do 100mph