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Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

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jon0844

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In my experience, provided you keep them properly lubricated internal combustion engines run for 100,00 miles or more without needing repairs.

Even expensive cars use rubber hoses and other components that will likely need maintenance even if you barely add any mileage at all - age being the killer.

EVs are a LOT more simple in design, and consequently a lot cheaper to maintain.

Of course, given car makers and dealerships make money on doing maintenance and repairs, I am sure they'll seek to find ways to make money from EV owners when the 'easy money' working on ICE vehicles dries up.
 
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reddragon

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Strange that Nissan LEAFs are making 200,000 miles & Teslas 400,000 miles with little more than tyres, wiper blades & washer bottle fills!

The electronics that fail most in ICE cars are due to heat, hot gases, dirt & liquids not present in an EV.
 

AM9

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Strange that Nissan LEAFs are making 200,000 miles & Teslas 400,000 miles with little more than tyres, wiper blades & washer bottle fills!

The electronics that fail most in ICE cars are due to heat, hot gases, dirt & liquids not present in an EV.
But so many these days livein a world of disbelief of any information that doesn't align with their view, but see random anecdotal evidence that does as absolute proof.
 

reddragon

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But so many these days livein a world of disbelief of any information that doesn't align with their view, but see random anecdotal evidence that does as absolute proof.
I had to take pictures to prove that I took my LEAF to Portugal & back!
 

Factotum

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Taking a break every few hours (even if you had a coffee, which you wouldn't have to do) would still only be 2 coffees for about 7 hours of driving (first break after 3 hours and then the second after 2 hours before arriving 2 hours after that, assuming 200 miles range and 80% charge at each break).

That's hardly going to give you caffeine poisoning.
It was a JOK
Even if you do that every week, the numbers of people who travel for more than 5 hours more than a couple of time a year is fairly small.
I am not interested in other people only my own requirements
We get that you believe that EV's aren't suitable for you. However that doesn't mean that they aren't suitable, even with very degraded batteries, for a lot of other people.
I don't give a XXXX about what is suitable for other people. I will be driving the car.
The main reason an EV is unsuitable for me is the price. When I can get one with 10,000 milers on for £3,500 pounds (which is my current ICE vehicle) I will snap it jup

How much does the service cost on your ICE car? Few hundred at least. Some need cambelt changes every few years, £1,000 quid or more in some cases.
A couple of hundred. Not much in the greater scheme of motoring. And cam belts need changin at 100K
Tesla have no service schedule at all.
I would be very unhappy not to have my car inspected by a good mechanic every year. Even EVs develop fauilts.

But so many these days livein a world of disbelief of any information that doesn't align with their view, but see random anecdotal evidence that does as absolute proof.
I am quite happy to accept that modern EVs are reliable is suitable evidence is produced
But I resent the implication that my experience over fifty years of failed electrical components and connections is anecdotal. It is well established fact
 
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GLC

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I would be very unhappy not to have my car inspected by a good mechanic every year. Even EVs develop fauilts.
Luckily, in the UK atleast, there is a requirement for an annual inspection, which specifically covers tyres among other things, which are the bits on an EV which are most subject to wear
 

miami

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Public transport doesn't work in many parts of the country, and can't due to density, but for long distance travel the train (assuming there's capacity, and there isn't) is great, you could drive your car to a station, park, get the train to your destination (say Inverness), then pick up a hire car at the far end.

The problem is

1) No hire car facilities at stations at any time, let alone open when trains arrive
2) Parking costs a fortune, not because of supply and demand, but because of profit extraction -- the Council car park next to the Railway one at Crewe is £3 rather than £12 a day.

If you wanted to travel from somewhere a couple of miles out of Marshfield near Bristol to somehwere on the coast near St Andrews in Scotland, it's a 440 mile journey, which runs into charging issues, but neither has stations, and you'll likely want to pootle around at each end.

If instead you drove to Bristol Parkway, took a train to Haymarket / Waverley and could then get in a guaranteed charged car for pootling around Fife, that would be great. Instead what's more likely is someone will simply drive the entire way to have a car available at the far end, which mainly means

Electric vehicles can work in tandem with public transport, walking and cycling as part of an integrated transport solution if they (and cycles) are available to rent near stations, the costs work out, and the capacity is there.
 

Ediswan

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Luckily, in the UK atleast, there is a requirement for an annual inspection, which specifically covers tyres among other things, which are the bits on an EV which are most subject to wear
Only after three years, with mutterings about extending that to four.
 

trebor79

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How much does the service cost on your ICE car? Few hundred at least. Some need cambelt changes every few years, £1,000 quid or more in some cases.
Tesla have no service schedule at all.
Friend just had his MG5 serviced at 10,000 miles. The bill was £30.
Brakes will last longer too.
I would be very unhappy not to have my car inspected by a good mechanic every year. Even EVs develop fauilts.
And there's nothing at all to prevent you doing that. Just you aren't compelled to in order to keep the warranty valid.
Other than tyres, brakes and consumables such as washer fluid there's basically nothing to service.
 

jon0844

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I resent the implication that my experience over fifty years of failed electrical components and connections is anecdotal. It is well established fact

But it IS anecdotal. That's your experience, which isn't that of everyone. The facts would be for all people/vehicles - like detailed stats.

I have only 30 years of anecdotal data by comparison, but that is that every issue I've had (and some things have cost a small fortune) have been mechanical. Never any issues with ECUs or other computer based equipment/sensors.

I do agree that cars of the future have systems that could cost a lot to fix, but ICE cars (like my current one) have all the assistance features, auto this and auto that.
 

Factotum

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But it IS anecdotal. That's your experience, which isn't that of everyone. The facts would be for all people/vehicles - like detailed stats.

I have only 30 years of anecdotal data by comparison, but that is that every issue I've had (and some things have cost a small fortune) have been mechanical. Never any issues with ECUs or other computer based equipment/sensors.

I do agree that cars of the future have systems that could cost a lot to fix, but ICE cars (like my current one) have all the assistance features, auto this and auto that.
Fairy Nuff.

I suspect that if I am forced into buying another car it will be a classic from the eighties when cars were reliable but still fairly simple aND contain a big dollop of nostalgia :-0.
 

DustyBin

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Fairy Nuff.

I suspect that if I am forced into buying another car it will be a classic from the eighties when cars were reliable but still fairly simple aND contain a big dollop of nostalgia :-0.

As somebody well acquainted will 80s cars I’d contest this particular assertion!
 

Bald Rick

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As somebody well acquainted will 80s cars I’d contest this particular assertion!

Agreed! Things that went wrong with my 5 year old 1980s car when I had it for five years (in the 90s):

Gearbox seals
Carburettor
Fuel filler pipe broken
Exhaust (twice)
Fuel pump (twice)
Gearbox linkages (on the M6, natch)
Throttle cable
Alternator
Cam belt (repaired just in time)

I don’t think any of these will be a problem on an EV...
 

DustyBin

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Agreed! Things that went wrong with my 5 year old 1980s car when I had it for five years (in the 90s):

Gearbox seals
Carburettor
Fuel filler pipe broken
Exhaust (twice)
Fuel pump (twice)
Gearbox linkages (on the M6, natch)
Throttle cable
Alternator
Cam belt (repaired just in time)

I don’t think any of these will be a problem on an EV...

Or a modern IC engined car to be fair (but obviously an EV will require less maintenance again).
 

jon0844

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I think if you know a bit about fixing cars and can get an old car that's cheap to fix (or patch up) then you may well save a fortune on maintenance - but arguably the running costs are still going to be high. Old engines in particular are going to consume more fuel than a modern one.

I therefore wouldn't compare an old car with an EV, unless of course you've got some classic car you love to drive (or a performance car you can't bear to be without because of the engine and 'raw' performance etc) but then your reasons for having one is not about saving money.
 

Bald Rick

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Or a modern IC engined car to be fair

My modern IC engined car (4 years old) has needed a new alternator and is due a cam belt imminently, but yes less to worry about.


I think if you know a bit about fixing cars and can get an old car that's cheap to fix (or patch up) then you may well save a fortune on maintenance - but arguably the running costs are still going to be high. Old engines in particular are going to consume more fuel than a modern one.

Not sure about that. My next door neighbours lad bought a 25 year old Clio last autumn, partly as an experiment to demonstrate his fledgling engineering skills. It failed the MOT, and so far he’s spent over a thousand quid on parts, fixing everything himself. He got it moving for the first time in months this afternoon!

He also broke part of my socket set trying to remove a wheel hub, but I’ll let him off.
 

ABB125

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Some people enjoy repairing cars; I can't imagine they'll find much enjoyment in an electric car! I suppose they could always try to re-wind the motors or something... :D

Personally I think knowing basic car repair/maintenance skills is very useful. Admittedly my experience consists of using a Haynes manual/Youtube to replace the coil packs and coolant pump*, the former of which aren't particlularly challenging...


*This was quite a bit of fun. My dad bought a new pump through work: "here's the pump, the manual and some tools, fix it". Amusingly, during the process he knocked over the container of coolant drained from the system and spilt it over his shoes and trousers! :D
 
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Factotum

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Agreed! Things that went wrong with my 5 year old 1980s car when I had it for five years (in the 90s):

Gearbox seals
Carburettor
Fuel filler pipe broken
Exhaust (twice)
Fuel pump (twice)
Gearbox linkages (on the M6, natch)
Throttle cable
Alternator
Cam belt (repaired just in time)

I don’t think any of these will be a problem on an EV...
That is just anecdotal.
The series of Golf GTIs that I had never let me down. Which is also anecdotal
 

Roast Veg

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Perhaps it's just paranoia, but I am becoming increasingly displeased with the promotion (by a small group of people) of electric quadricycles in cities over other sustainable forms of transport, having previously been something of a supporter. Particularly, they are extremely wasteful and particulate polluting where an equivalent rapid transit system (bus included) or cycle provision would serve a similar transport need without the major drawbacks.

Thankfully, I've not yet seen an instance of a town or city center specifically avoid pedestrianizing or otherwise restricting vehicle access on the basis that Twizys, Amis, and covered mopeds (or worse, pods) are the future of urban transit. Ultimately, they carry the same drawbacks as any privately owned or private hire rubber tyred vehicle that gets brought out in the media as a snake oil for "revolutionising transit", those drawbacks being danger to drivers and pedestrians, particulate emissions, space pollution, and miniscule capacity.
 

DustyBin

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My modern IC engined car (4 years old) has needed a new alternator and is due a cam belt imminently, but yes less to worry about.

My previous company 5 Series had quite a bit done under warranty actually. There’s always scope for issues with complex machinery, but as you say there’s less to worry about these days.

Not sure about that. My next door neighbours lad bought a 25 year old Clio last autumn, partly as an experiment to demonstrate his fledgling engineering skills. It failed the MOT, and so far he’s spent over a thousand quid on parts, fixing everything himself. He got it moving for the first time in months this afternoon!

He also broke part of my socket set trying to remove a wheel hub, but I’ll let him off.

I’m not into Renaults but I can well imagine he’s getting hit with high spares prices as the car is now “collectible” (some people have weird tastes!). :lol:

An EV doesn't have any of those parts!

I know, they’re basically kitchen appliances on wheels! (I’m joking, well mostly anyway). :D
 

Shrop

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Strange that Nissan LEAFs are making 200,000 miles & Teslas 400,000 miles with little more than tyres, wiper blades & washer bottle fills!
Just out of interest, how many Teslas do you know of that have done 400,000 miles? That sort of mileage is more locomotive territory than car territory!
 

reddragon

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No idea



On January 6, 2022, a Tesla Model S P85 (the oldest performance version) reached an impressive mileage milestone of 1,500,000 km (932,256 miles).


Model X on 400,000 miles


A Model S

 
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Factotum

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No idea












That $29000 rather belies the assertion that EVs have very low maintenance costs compared with ICE cars.
Over £5000 per 100,000miles is more than I have ever paid to keep an ICE
 

Bletchleyite

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That $29000 rather belies the assertion that EVs have very low maintenance costs compared with ICE cars.
Over £5000 per 100,000miles is more than I have ever paid to keep an ICE

Find me an ICE that will last 400K miles without very expensive work, and price that up at BMW/Mercedes main dealer prices, and you have a comparison.
 

reddragon

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That $29000 rather belies the assertion that EVs have very low maintenance costs compared with ICE cars.
Over £5000 per 100,000miles is more than I have ever paid to keep an ICE
$9000 was on tires so £3500 over the average life of an ICE car and Tesla's are top end costs on maintenance & parts!


The Cleevely Autos MG5 EV has done 19,000 miles in 4 months since new and has had just one carbon filter replaced, that's it.
 
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johncrossley

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Electric buses have been operating in London for several years now. Has there been any analysis of the cost of maintenance compared to a diesel bus?
 

stuu

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That $29000 rather belies the assertion that EVs have very low maintenance costs compared with ICE cars.
Over £5000 per 100,000miles is more than I have ever paid to keep an ICE
£500 per 10,000 miles is pretty good going IMHO, unless you are doing the servicing yourself. You certainly aren't going to be able to use main dealers for that sort of money, which you often need to for the warranty
 
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