Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[anthony263]

231001 and 231003

 

[Bob Price]

Sadly cancelled. According to the notes in the schedules on Railcam the delivery will happen after Easter.

Saw quite a few Photos of one the 231's going to Barry and Pontypridd.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Saw quite a few Photos of one the 231's going to Barry and Pontypridd.

Interesting, does anyone know if it got to Pontypridd and back without issues?

 

[DaiBee]

Pretty sure one passed me about half a hour ago heading southbound near Treforest, was walking my dogs and only glimpsed it through the trees, semeed to be going at a decent speed though!

 

[Envoy]

Test runs have been taking place today using the City Line and going as far as Pontypridd. The two photos below were taken at Radyr.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Test runs have been taking place today using the City Line and going as far as Pontypridd. The two photos below were taken at Radyr.

Nice. If they're making it through to Pontypridd, I'm guessing that means they make it past whatever it is that stops 153s/158s/175s getting past Taffs Well (I know a 158 made it to Treherbert once on a guaging run, but it suffered some scratches apparently and as a result they're not cleared up there).

 

[krus_aragon]

Nice. If they're making it through to Pontypridd, I'm guessing that means they make it past whatever it is that stops 153s/158s/175s getting past Taffs Well (I know a 158 made it to Treherbert once on a guaging run, but it suffered some scratches apparently and as a result they're not cleared up there).

Weren't the 231s ordered as 20m carriage units (same as 150s) in order to avoid that issue?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Weren't the 231s ordered as 20m carriage units (same as 150s) in order to avoid that issue?

FLIRTs have short vehicles (typically 18m end and 16m intermediate, though they vary a bit) because they are articulated, not because they were specifically ordered that way. Though it could be a reason for choosing the FLIRT over CAF.

 

[AdamWW]

FLIRTs have short vehicles (typically 18m end and 16m intermediate, though they vary a bit) because they are articulated, not because they were specifically ordered that way. Though it could be a reason for choosing the FLIRT over CAF.

Do CAF offer bi and tri-modes?

 

[krus_aragon]

FLIRTs have short vehicles (typically 18m end and 16m intermediate, though they vary a bit) because they are articulated, not because they were specifically ordered that way. Though it could be a reason for choosing the FLIRT over CAF.

Let me go for a rephrase, then:

"Weren't the 231s chosen because their carriages are shorter than the 23m of 153s/158s/175s in order to avoid that issue?"

 

[Dai Corner]

Do CAF offer bi and tri-modes?

Yes.

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CAF has battery powered rolling stock in revenue service since 2010: Seville Tramway, Saragossa Tramway, Birmingham Tramway or Kaohsiung Tramway among others.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes.

Interesting. Thanks.

Though as I understand it neither the 231s or 756s are intended to run on the lines through Pontypridd so it might not have been a factor when choosing them.

I don't know what the restrictions are on the routes the 231s are intended for but for the 756 routes, 153s are certainly permitted between Penarth and Rhymney (and to Coryton). I don't know about Barry and the Vale of Glamorgan route - I'm not aware of 153s venturing down there.

 

[Dai Corner]

Interesting. Thanks.

Though as I understand it neither the 231s or 756s are intended to run on the lines through Pontypridd so it might not have been a factor when choosing them.

I don't know what the restrictions are on the routes the 231s are intended for but for the 756 routes, 153s are certainly permitted between Penarth and Rhymney (and to Coryton). I don't know about Barry and the Vale of Glamorgan route - I'm not aware of 153s venturing down there.

The Vale of Glamorgan line has been used for diversions when the main line is closed and has seen all sorts of stock over the years. Don't know about the Barry Island branch.

 

[AdamWW]

The Vale of Glamorgan line has been used for diversions when the main line is closed and has seen all sorts of stock over the years. Don't know about the Barry Island branch.

Ah so it has. I remember seeing HSTs through Barry some years ago.

 

[craigybagel]

Interesting. Thanks.

Though as I understand it neither the 231s or 756s are intended to run on the lines through Pontypridd so it might not have been a factor when choosing them.

I don't know what the restrictions are on the routes the 231s are intended for but for the 756 routes, 153s are certainly permitted between Penarth and Rhymney (and to Coryton). I don't know about Barry and the Vale of Glamorgan route - I'm not aware of 153s venturing down there.

The Vale of Glamorgan line has been used for diversions when the main line is closed and has seen all sorts of stock over the years. Don't know about the Barry Island branch.

153s are booked into Barry Island every morning. They run attached to the 150 on the first departure at 0515, and detach at Cardiff Central to go on to Coryton services.

The restrictions on the Valleys are for 23m long stock North of Radyr. This is why with the demise of the Pacers most 150s within TfW have been sent to the Valleys, and many routes outside of that network that used to also be worked by 150s are seeing more 153s instead.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Weren't the 231s ordered as 20m carriage units (same as 150s) in order to avoid that issue?

The FLIRTs weren't expected to run through Pontypridd though, only the tram-trains, which is why these class 231 test runs to Pontypridd are of interest (since, in my view, the tram-trains should be going to Coryton and the FLIRTs to Merthyr/Aberdare/Hirwaun/Treherbert/Rhymney).

 

[Dai Corner]

The FLIRTs weren't expected to run through Pontypridd though, only the tram-trains, which is why these class 231 test runs to Pontypridd are of interest (since, in my view, the tram-trains should be going to Coryton and the FLIRTs to Merthyr/Aberdare/Hirwaun/Treherbert/Rhymney).

The FLIRTS will be going to Rhymney.

 

[delt1c]

My guess is that it'll be similar to the DC only Electrostars: all the space reservation is there but rather than the equipment being installed, there's either nothing or a lump of concrete.

Just like the non boiler fitted 37’s a few ( ok many ) years ago

 

[Rhydgaled]

The FLIRTS will be going to Rhymney.

Yes, but Merthyr/Aberdare/Hirwaun/Treherbert wasn't in the plan so it wasn't a given that they would be cleared beyond Taffs Well. The fact that they have now been shown to be cleared to Pontypridd means there is some hope they will be able to go up the other valleys in addition to Rhymney.

 

[Caaardiff]

Yes, but Merthyr/Aberdare/Hirwaun/Treherbert wasn't in the plan so it wasn't a given that they would be cleared beyond Taffs Well. The fact that they have now been shown to be cleared to Pontypridd means there is some hope they will be able to go up the other valleys in addition to Rhymney.

No, there isn't. Those routes will be trams so there won't be any need to send them up there. It's probably more a paper exercise just to get the clearance done.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 19/04 0256 Ripple Lane - Canton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K38000/2022-04-19/detailed

 

[SuperLuke2334]

STP 19/04 0256 Ripple Lane - Canton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K38000/2022-04-19/detailed

Cancelled again sadly, maybe better luck next time.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 26/04 0256 Ripple Lane - Canton
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K38000/2022-04-26/detailed

 

[Richard Scott]

Two units just seen at Dollands Moor. No idea which two but a 66 attached to them.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Two units just seen at Dollands Moor. No idea which two but a 66 attached to them.

AIUI 66001 and 66002 are the only two 66s able to work these trains. 66001 is allocated "STUK" "MOND" at Dollands Moor and 66002 is at Toton allocatd 0Z45 Toton-Willesden
So I guess the loco is 66001

 

[Cardiff123]

Yes, but Merthyr/Aberdare/Hirwaun/Treherbert wasn't in the plan so it wasn't a given that they would be cleared beyond Taffs Well. The fact that they have now been shown to be cleared to Pontypridd means there is some hope they will be able to go up the other valleys in addition to Rhymney.

No, there isn't. Those routes will be trams so there won't be any need to send them up there. It's probably more a paper exercise just to get the clearance done.

This quote is correct, it's a paper exercise to get driver training done and the required fault free running miles done. They are going up the Pontypridd lines simply because no paths are available elsewhere to get this done. TfW wouldn't be spending millions on a new tram-train depot at Taffs Well for a dedicated fleet of 398s if the Flirts were going to be used on the Pontypridd lines.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

This quote is correct, it's a paper exercise to get driver training done and the required fault free running miles done. They are going up the Pontypridd lines simply because no paths are available elsewhere to get this done. TfW wouldn't be spending millions on a new tram-train depot at Taffs Well for a dedicated fleet of 398s if the Flirts were going to be used on the Pontypridd lines.

Absolutely but there are advantages in having units approved for as many routes as possible.

Say, for instance, the entire tram train fleet had to be withdrawn at short notice as happened to the Azumas last year, having clearance for other units might enable you to maintain a skeleton service.

 

[3973EXL]

6L22 1730 Dollands Moor - Ripple Lane 92042 66001 231001 231003 dep 7 late
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H20713/2022-04-25/detailed

 

[Anonymous10]

Absolutely but there are advantages in having units approved for as many routes as possible.

Say, for instance, the entire tram train fleet had to be withdrawn at short notice as happened to the Azumas last year, having clearance for other units might enable you to maintain a skeleton service.

however its more likely in that case that 197's would also be used but then again having the whole fleet cleared would allow for the best service under such conditions

 

[craigybagel]

however its more likely in that case that 197's would also be used but then again having the whole fleet cleared would allow for the best service under such conditions

The chances of Valleys drivers getting trained on 197s are pretty slim.