CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jacob Porrett]

Looks like there is a possible 197 out tonight in the covered of darkness between Wolves and Crewe via Salop

Realtime Trains | 574T 2228 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 574T 2228 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 575T 2345 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 575T 2345 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 576T 0132 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 576T 0132 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 577T 0237 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 577T 0237 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It was 197002. First time a 197 has been on the Stour and been along the Salop under it's on power testing wise.

 

[wobman]

There's a plan to test couple a 197 to a 196, this could help out in a breakdown situation in the Salop to Midlands area.
These units have the software capability to be used for recovery but the tocs want to actually practice it in action

 

[Anonymous10]

on some stations in South wales such as Pembroke dock has had all 15x and 175 stop signs taken down and replaced by 197 ones

 

[Jacob Porrett]

There's a plan to test couple a 197 to a 196, this could help out in a breakdown situation in the Salop to Midlands area.
These units have the software capability to be used for recovery but the tocs want to actually practice it in action

Ah right ok. When is this likely to happen?

 

[wobman]

Ah right ok. When is this likely to happen?

In the distant future as it will require lots of checks and authorisation

 

[wobman]

Just seen 002 at Llandudno Junction on test, it was turning back towards crewe with freightliner drivers and Caf techs onboard

 

[Doveymain158]

Tmrw night similar times if it runs. I think its down the Marches tonight Crewe to Hereford again if it runs.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

In the distant future as it will require lots of checks and authorisation

Ah right ok.

 

[sw1ller]

There's a plan to test couple a 197 to a 196, this could help out in a breakdown situation in the Salop to Midlands area.
These units have the software capability to be used for recovery but the tocs want to actually practice it in action

Should probably work out how to couple a 197 to a 197 first before they start getting fancy with other classes eh!

 

[wobman]

Should probably work out how to couple a 197 to a 197 first before they start getting fancy with other classes eh!

I'm worried about the whiplash claims.....

 

[Anonymous10]

Should probably work out how to couple a 197 to a 197 first before they start getting fancy with other classes eh!

we've already seen pictures of them running a 3 car + 2 2 car units on this thread iirc

 

[wobman]

we've already seen pictures of them running a 3 car + 2 2 car units on this thread iirc

That's freightliner drivers driving the units and coupling them just for testing and mileage accumulation. Tfw don't couple units for various reasons.....

 

[Bob Price]

Interesting development today, a ROG working to Llandudno Junction has just left Crewe and a three car 102 has just arrived. There is also a schedule of shuttles between Chester and Crewe run by SLC operations. Started out from Gresty lane and scheduled for four return trips. Looks like testing is stepping up

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Interesting development today, a ROG working to Llandudno Junction has just left Crewe and a three car 102 has just arrived. There is also a schedule of shuttles between Chester and Crewe run by SLC operations. Started out from Gresty lane and scheduled for four return trips. Looks like testing is stepping up

I saw a TFW Class 197/1 3 car on test yesterday between chester and Llandudno Junction. I was a Rhyl yesterday and saw pass from the Blue Bridge.

 

[craigybagel]

Interesting development today, a ROG working to Llandudno Junction has just left Crewe and a three car 102 has just arrived. There is also a schedule of shuttles between Chester and Crewe run by SLC operations. Started out from Gresty lane and scheduled for four return trips. Looks like testing is stepping up

I saw a TFW Class 197/1 3 car on test yesterday between chester and Llandudno Junction. I was a Rhyl yesterday and saw pass from the Blue Bridge.

The one you saw yesterday may well have been training rather than a test. There's a unit booked to make 4 round trips Chester - Llandudno Junction and another doing 6 round trips Crewe - Shrewsbury every day just for crew training. However they don't normally run on a Tuesday so to see lots of units out today is interesting.

 

[Bob Price]

The SLC operated unit was 011. Very shiny

 

[Jacob Porrett]

The one you saw yesterday may well have been training rather than a test. There's a unit booked to make 4 round trips Chester - Llandudno Junction and another doing 6 round trips Crewe - Shrewsbury every day just for crew training. However they don't normally run on a Tuesday so to see lots of units out today is interesting.

Ah right ok. As they are due in service soon they need crews to be trained on them so it makes sense. Good to see them out and about.

 

[Class15]

Probably a dumb question but could the 197s have pantograph added?

 

[craigybagel]

Probably a dumb question but could the 197s have pantograph added?

No such thing as a dumb question.

Assuming that your question is about turning them into bi-modes or electric only units - it could be done, but you would need to replace pretty much everything under the floor. It's a six speed mechanical transmission, not exactly an easy conversion to run directly of electricity. As hybrid technology progresses though there may be options to incorporate some degree of electric power in to it (as is currently being experimented with at Chiltern) - but I doubt we'll ever see these units running off the overhead.

Now I know there's a good chance a certain regular poster on this thread will chip in now to say how terrible this is - but the chances of an electrification scheme taking place in large parts of the TfW network during the lifetime of these units is essentially nill. Modern, cleaner diesel units are the only real sensible option for fleet expansion/replacement at present.

 

[Class15]

No such thing as a dumb question.

Assuming that your question is about turning them into bi-modes or electric only units - it could be done, but you would need to replace pretty much everything under the floor. It's a six speed mechanical transmission, not exactly an easy conversion to run directly of electricity. As hybrid technology progresses though there may be options to incorporate some degree of electric power in to it (as is currently being experimented with at Chiltern) - but I doubt we'll ever see these units running off the overhead.

Now I know there's a good chance a certain regular poster on this thread will chip in now to say how terrible this is - but the chances of an electrification scheme taking place in large parts of the TfW network during the lifetime of these units is essentially nill. Modern, cleaner diesel units are the only real sensible option for fleet expansion/replacement at present.

Thanks!

 

[Doveymain158]

Can anyone give a recap which set numbers have been delivered to Crewe and which ones are in storage at Donnington? Thanks/Diolch.

 

[tomuk]

As hybrid technology progresses though there may be options to incorporate some degree of electric power in to it (as is currently being experimented with at Chiltern)

The technology has progressed. You could buy drop in replacement hybrid power packs from MTU now. The Chiltern trial is less of an experiment and more of a demonstration to try to get the Government to fund the upgrade. TfW could have specified hybrid packs for the 197s but the upfront cost would have been higher so more £££ or fewer units ordered.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Can anyone give a recap which set numbers have been delivered to Crewe and which ones are in storage at Donnington? Thanks/Diolch.

Hello Mr Don here

197006
197008
197007
197103
197009
197012
4x 197/0 (No Numbers)
At Donnington Rail Freight Terminal.

 

[Doveymain158]

Hello Mr Don here

197006
197008
197007
197103
197009
197012
4x 197/0 (No Numbers)
At Donnington Rail Freight Terminal.

Diolch Mr Don

I think there is something running today between Shrewsbury and Hereford not sure if it a 197. So many operator going testing and fault free running.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Diolch Mr Don

I think there is something running today between Shrewsbury and Hereford not sure if it a 197. So many operator going testing and fault free running.

It was 197011 with SLC Operations.

 

[GWVillager]

Sorry, I'm sure this has come up in the thread before but I'm new and don't really want to scour through it.
I went to Crewe the other day and found 197002 on test (also 197004 and 197102 but didn't get up close to them), and from what I can see the Standard Class interiors look great. What I want to know is has there been any news on the First Class specification? I've heard nothing from TfW (or anyone else) about whether it will be 2+1 or new seating or whatever, but I have my hopes up - TfW have proven to be pretty good with interiors.

 

[krus_aragon]

Sorry, I'm sure this has come up in the thread before but I'm new and don't really want to scour through it.
I went to Crewe the other day and found 197002 on test (also 197004 and 197102 but didn't get up close to them), and from what I can see the Standard Class interiors look great. What I want to know is has there been any news on the First Class specification? I've heard nothing from TfW (or anyone else) about whether it will be 2+1 or new seating or whatever, but I have my hopes up - TfW have proven to be pretty good with interiors.

There have been some internal seating plans for the 197s in the public domain, which have confirmed it's 2+1. I'll have a rummage around to see if I can find them for you.

 

[GWVillager]

Is this it? I completely forgot to check accessibility information, they're often very good at providing layouts! That's an unusual format I have to say though, no pairs of airline style seats. It's quite a large area as well, and 2+1 is quite promising, this does certainly have potential. Presumably, with most of the 197s now manufactured, there are completed units with this arrangement in existence, we're just yet to see them. I'm certainly looking forward to trying them out myself (apologies if I've mucked this up, I'm still getting used to the quotes etc.)

 

[krus_aragon]

GWVillager beat me to it (further seating layouts at https://tfw.wales/info-for/passengers/accessible-travel/train-accessibility), but in addition, here's a link to an archived document from the original franchise award that listed specifications of some of the planned fleet (including new stock, and refurbishment to existing units):

Wayback Machine

The document lists details for 2-car, 3-car pre-First fittment, and post-First fittment. The balance is removing 28 standard seats to provide 16 first class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, I'm sure this has come up in the thread before but I'm new and don't really want to scour through it.
I went to Crewe the other day and found 197002 on test (also 197004 and 197102 but didn't get up close to them), and from what I can see the Standard Class interiors look great. What I want to know is has there been any news on the First Class specification? I've heard nothing from TfW (or anyone else) about whether it will be 2+1 or new seating or whatever, but I have my hopes up - TfW have proven to be pretty good with interiors.

Standard looks very cramped. 4 windows, 9 rows...