Rail strikes discussion

[43066]

Which bit of the 'story' exactly don't you believe and why?

There are different examples cited from both TOCs and NR in different parts of the country.

I’ve read the article. As someone who actually works in the industry I can confirm it’s 90% nonsense which distorts the picture to play to the prejudices of the simple minded readership.

The fact you seem to be incapable of recognising that the Daily Mail isn’t a serious news source suggests you aren’t really up for a serious debate on this subject.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Tomorrows Sunday Times

https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-times-front-page-2022-06-19/

 

[jayah]

I’ve read the article. As someone who actually works in the industry I can confirm it’s 90% nonsense which distorts the picture to play to the prejudices of the simple minded readership.

The fact you seem to be incapable of recognising that the Daily Mail isn’t a serious news source suggests you aren’t really up for a serious debate on this subject.

So now you have read the article, you can dismantle it in detail?

You seem stuck on the ad hominem.

 

[choochoochoo]

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

Which lucky staff have 20mins book on time, we only get 11 ?!?!

You clearly haven't tried to book on trying to call our duty manager !! That can take 5 minutes at busy times

Oh, and I'd say that 'me' time includes time to use the toilet before 4-5 hours without a break. And annotate diagram. And read appropriate WON notices for the day. And ask control about all the errors in the diagram that planning seem to have made.

 

[43066]

So now you have read the article, you can dismantle it in detail?

You seem stuck on the ad hominem.

I could yes, I simply can’t be bothered. It’s garbage. Other contributors who don’t work on the railway have also noted that they can see this for what it is. Why can’t you?

The fact the website prompts you to choose between news and showbiz… Sheesh.

 

[Need2]

I don't really care if it is in one case, or someone decides maintaining 200 mobile devices, software updates etc... is easier, but if it is like their other allowances it will involve 5mins to book on 15mins to read notices that in real life involves 1min to book on, 3min to read notices and 16mins of 'me' time which over 4 shifts amounts to 1/35 the contracted week.

Please can you tell us where you get your information from because you’re very obviously not railway staff?
You do appear very very bitter, why is that?

 

[jayah]

Trying to respond to you is like screaming into the void but damn my mental state and here we go.

My depot signing on time is 13m. That's 13m from me signing on to wheels rolling on my first train. So, 1m to sign on, pick up my schedule card. Another to read the SPAD notices (if there is anything new) and the Traincrew Information Display (live updates with things like emergency speed restrictions, heat restrictions, whatever), once that's scrolled round that's another couple of minutes, then a check of the main notice case. Once that's done it's time to walk to the cab, 8-10m remain. Leave my messroom, walk across the car park, into the station, check my departure platform, walk to my train, 2 or 3 minutes, 5-7m left. Confirm stops with my conductor, walk down the length of my train, 5m left, set up the cab, check my schedule for anything odd about this train, register the radio, sign into the train management system, set up the PIS, ready to go.

Normally I'm ready to go with about 2/3m to spare.

So where is the 16 minutes of me time I'm missing?

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waving the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

It was said earlier that strikes should hurt the employer, but all I am seeing is lost pay for the members, losses for the economy, hospitality and the taxpayer.

We have teachers balloting now and there was always little chance of the government caving unless productivity gains could be negotiated.

But it appears the union are opposing productivity gains, down to the last scarcely used ticket office. The nationalised LUL grapsed that nettle some years ago.

The fact the website prompts you to choose between news and showbiz… Sheesh.

You are doomed to loose public opinion, if it was ever behind you.

Umpteen messages berating the DM at length and not one substantive argument on the content.

 

[43066]

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waking the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

He’s just given you a detailed description of how walking time actually works. You are ignoring it. Thus proving that, like most people who lap up gutter journalism, you aren’t interested in facts. It’s a waste of time discussing this with you.

For the third time… What do you do yourself?

 

[Evolution]

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waving the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

What’s your obsession with walking time? Do you understand how it actually works? As you’re beginning to sound plain silly now.

 

[TheEdge]

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waving the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

What? I quite literally gave you an itemised bill of how walking time actually works.

 

[jayah]

Please can you tell us where you get your information from because you’re very obviously not railway staff?
You do appear very very bitter, why is that?

There is a link upthread which is clearly sourced from inside the industry, judging by the breadth of examples probably more than one person.

More people have opinions on it, than can be bothered to read it, but it does suggest there are some interesting 'opportunities' to fund pay rises through productivity shall we say.

That is the only actual way out of this mess, as the government aren't going to be giving everyone 10% this time next week.

Ironically this puts rail workers in a better position than most as it is probably harder for nurses and teachers to negotiate working practices for pay.

Very few of them raging about the DM seem to realise though.

What? I quite literally gave you an itemised bill of how walking time actually works.

Well they give an equally detailed view, with locations specified.

 

[FirstMinister]

Plenty of journalists work remotely from all over the world, as well. And you could quite easily be using a VPN to mask your IP address. Pull the other one.

Why is your location showing as “Birmingham” ?

I always use Birmingham when I register for a site - especially UK ones. My old postcode and 021 (I'm old...) phone number are often used as IDs/Passwords. However, other than being a West Brom fan for my sins, my associations with Brum are long gone.

 

[Wolfie]

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waving the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

It was said earlier that strikes should hurt the employer, but all I am seeing is lost pay for the members, losses for the economy, hospitality and the taxpayer.

We have teachers balloting now and there was always little chance of the government caving unless productivity gains could be negotiated.

But it appears the union are opposing productivity gains, down to the last scarcely used ticket office. The nationalised LUL grapsed that nettle some years ago.


You are doomed to loose public opinion, if it was ever behind you.

Umpteen messages berating the DM at length and not one substantive argument on the content.

The way that you keep going on l start to wonder if you actually are a Daily Heil journalist, even the clown who write that male bovine excrement article himself.....

I always use Birmingham when I register for a site - especially UK ones. My old postcode and 021 (I'm old...) phone number are often used as IDs/Passwords. However, other than being a West Brom fan for my sins, my associations with Brum are long gone.

You have my profound commiserations for your absence of any football sense..... lol

 

[Need2]

There is a link upthread

Care to show me, I’ve obviously missed it?

 

[TheEdge]

Well they give an equally detailed view, with locations specified.

No, they don't, it spouts the headline time without explaining how it actually works. Which I've done. And you'll still believe the DM is telling the whole truth.

 

[baz962]

If this 'walking time' really doesn't exist and is all a figment of fantasists in the DM, your union need to get out there and say so instead of waving the red flag and class struggle because they are losing the argument before the strike has even begun.

It was said earlier that strikes should hurt the employer, but all I am seeing is lost pay for the members, losses for the economy, hospitality and the taxpayer.

We have teachers balloting now and there was always little chance of the government caving unless productivity gains could be negotiated.

But it appears the union are opposing productivity gains, down to the last scarcely used ticket office. The nationalised LUL grapsed that nettle some years ago.


You are doomed to loose public opinion, if it was ever behind you.

Umpteen messages berating the DM at length and not one substantive argument on the content.

Also the walking time is a universal agreement and built into the diagram, but some days you will need it and others not so much. If you are in a large depot , one day the train you are working will be on the nearest road to the messroom and the next day on the furthest road away from the messroom.
At my old toc if I drove to work and parked in the depot , then it would take me around twenty minutes to book on and read notices and walk to the platforms. If I took the train in and got off on the platform , we had a messroom there with booking on point and then I was already on the platform , so only just under ten minutes needed. Also the time before a job was used to meet with a manager or fill in a report if required. If you are out driving trains all day and a manager needed you , it therefore averted a delay.

 

[jayah]

The way that you keep going on l start to wonder if you actually are a Daily Heil journalist, even the clown who write that male bovine excrement article himself.....

Am I imagining the RMT going on strike to keep LUL ticket offices open?

Are they prepared to have any negotiation about ticket office restructuring following the changes to digital tickets / contactless?

Their public rhetoric suggests not.

Productivity for pay seems to be the only route out of this hole the unions have asked you to climb into, other than a year of striking to achieve nothing but a massive grievance. But they have done that before too.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Am I imagining the RMT going on strike to keep LUL ticket offices open?

Are they prepared to have any negotiation about ticket office restructuring following the changes to digital tickets / contactless?

Their public rhetoric suggests not.

Productivity for pay seems to be the only route out of this hole the unions have asked you to climb into, other than a year of striking to achieve nothing but a massive grievance. But they have done that before too.

LUL shut ticket offices down years ago

 

[choochoochoo]

Also the walking time is a universal agreement and built into the diagram, but some days you will need it and others not so much. If you are in a large depot , one day the train you are working will be on the nearest road to the messroom and the next day on the furthest road away from the messroom.
At my old toc if I drove to work and parked in the depot , then it would take me around twenty minutes to book on and read notices and walk to the platforms. If I took the train in and got off on the platform , we had a messroom there with booking on point and then I was already on the platform , so only just under ten minutes needed. Also the time before a job was used to meet with a manager or fill in a report if required. If you are out driving trains all day and a manager needed you , it therefore averted a delay.

Does booking on time usually contain an allowance for a Random Drugs and Alcohol Test to be carried out, or if I get subjected to one, can I make my first train late ?

 

[jayah]

No, they don't, it spouts the headline time without explaining how it actually works. Which I've done. And you'll still believe the DM is telling the whole truth.

The practice seems to vary as you seem to be saying there isn't a separate booking on time allowed and others quote that as being its own allowance.

They gave a detailed breakdown (unless you have found a shortened version) of how the number of minutes was arrived at during the relocation.

 

[baz962]

Does booking on time usually contain an allowance for a Random Drugs and Alcohol Test to be carried out, or if I get subjected to one, can I make my first train late ?

To be honest I don't know at my current TOC. At my last they would leave you spare or similar and you would get it on a day that you weren't driving. Or a spare would start or finish your diagram and you would be collared.

 

[43066]

The way that you keep going on l start to wonder if you actually are a Daily Heil journalist, even the clown who write that male bovine excrement article himself.....

It’s probability the single worst news article I’ve ever read in terms of accuracy.

The Mail really is one bloody horrible newspaper isn’t it. It appeals to certain base instincts, fomenting jealousy and hatred. I say that as someone who is instinctively a small government conservative! I’m honestly not sure how I’ll be voting next time.

Am I imagining the RMT going on strike to keep LUL ticket offices open?

Are they prepared to have any negotiation about ticket office restructuring following the changes to digital tickets / contactless?

Their public rhetoric suggests not.

Productivity for pay seems to be the only route out of this hole the unions have asked you to climb into, other than a year of striking to achieve nothing but a massive grievance. But they have done that before too.

LUL shut ticket offices down years ago

It’s getting embarrassing now, yet he keeps on digging!

 

[jayah]

LUL shut ticket offices down years ago

Yes, with exactly the same histrionics about exactly the same issue as we have now as part of this dispute.

Aside from the nonsense of striking to protect job security, there seems to be no form of restructuring, no matter how outdated / unproductive something is, that the RMT will agree to without calling a strike and getting it forced on them.

 

[Wolfie]

Am I imagining the RMT going on strike to keep LUL ticket offices open?

Are they prepared to have any negotiation about ticket office restructuring following the changes to digital tickets / contactless?

Their public rhetoric suggests not.

Productivity for pay seems to be the only route out of this hole the unions have asked you to climb into, other than a year of striking to achieve nothing but a massive grievance. But they have done that before too.

LUL ticket offices???? All but a handful closed about 7 years ago! Methinks that you are spouting crap!

Oh, and while l actually agree with productivity for pay being the only way forward, l must say (not for the first time if you bothered to actually read rather than spouting) that l neither do nor ever have worked for the railway.

 

[WelshBluebird]

How on earth have we got to page 62 with some people still thinking through DM and the sun are actually reputable sources rather than the absolute bs rags that they are?

 

[choochoochoo]

To be honest I don't know at my current TOC. At my last they would leave you spare or similar and you would get it on a day that you weren't driving. Or a spare would start or finish your diagram and you would be collared.

The practice of using a spare to cover your work seems a sensible way of doing it. Although being pedantic , it is then not exactly, by definition, random as it depends on spares being available.

 

[jayah]

It’s probability the single worst news article I’ve ever read in terms of accuracy.

The Mail really is one bloody horrible newspaper isn’t it. It appeals to certain base instincts, fomenting jealousy and hatred. I say that as someone who is instinctively a small government conservative! I’m honestly not sure how I’ll be voting next time.





It’s getting embarrassing now, yet he keeps on digging!

Productivity for Pay?

Where exactly is your off ramp? Do you really think Boris is going to give you 10% this time next week?

Unlike Southern OBS or LUL ticket offices it doesn't end when the change is forced on you.

So when does it end? 9 days all out is all it lasted in 1926.

If they prefer death by a thousand cuts, it might be a year, based on past experience.

 

[WelshBluebird]

As for closing ticket offices, I assume those suggesting or supporting that haven't actually travelled by rail in a while? Especially at large stations (e.g. Bristol Temple Meads as that's what I'm familiar with). Ticket offices at those kind of stations are very heavily used.

 

[baz962]

The practice of using a spare to cover your work seems a sensible way of doing it. Although being pedantic , it is then not exactly, by definition, random as it depends on spares being available.

Well the testers would turn up and you wouldn't know. You would get in the depot and get pulled if spare. If not then you wouldn't know until literally you get off the train and get sent to the tester. They wouldn't book you in so to speak and have a spare that knew. Literally you get off the train and a manager would send you down and then just pull a spare out the messroom and tell them to work the train.

 

[jayah]

LUL ticket offices???? All but a handful closed about 7 years ago! Methinks that you are spouting crap!

The irony was lost on you.

The wonderful nationalised railway the RMT campaigned for, did this 7 years ago.

Now we repeat the same process, but this time the strike over 'job security' appears to come before the probably inevitable closure proposals.