Rail strikes discussion

[theageofthetra]

I was fortunate, we had nothing running from the depot but we still had 3 or 4 in for service protection case they were required on parts of the very limited routes that are running.



It came across wrong, I may have to take my turn on Thursday as i‘m rest day fri/sat.

How a properly managed depot should have operated today

 

[Signal_Box]

Andrew Haines, Network Rail CEO, has just said on sky news that Network Rail have offered much more then the 2% offer...

Probably linked to modernisation, he can offer 10% but if the union won’t access no compulsion redundancies then it’ll be rejected without a members vote.

Not that we’re told bugger all anyway.

 

[theking]

I caught the tail end of a Grant Shapps interview earlier, and he was making noises about the 4 day week, you could hear the eye rolling in his voice. But a 4 day week working office hours with some autonomy over your day is very different to working a 4 day week getting up pre 0300 and being bound by a diagram, with no wiggle room over when you can get a coffee.

The irony being that the biggest trial of the 4 day working week across multiple businesses and sectors in this country's history is taking place.

But because railway workers already have it, it's bad mmm'k

 

[theageofthetra]

Eight hours

Appalling

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Probably linked to modernisation, he can offer 10% but if the union won’t access no compulsion redundancies then it’ll be rejected without a members vote.

Not that we’re told bugger all anyway.

I guess they have to keep a lid on headline figures so other unions don't latch onto it.

 

[theageofthetra]

One of the biggest assaults on the working class was the endless attacks on pensions. Pensions are my red line in the sand.

Particularly by Gordon Brown

 

[Signal_Box]

Feel its important again to point out that these are the first strikes Network Rail signallers have taken since 1994!

Railtrack signallers (whatever happened to them?) back then of course, Network Rail signallers have never striked (nationally).

 

[weepingwillowb]

The days of an ever-expanding railway are over. If the unions are not careful, this strike will hasten a big contraction of the system and services and could in a worse case scenario bring about its virtual demise.

The NUM now has fewer than 100 members to represent a workforce of near zero. This could easily be the future of our railways, with the only stations with any sort of service being on our voluntee-run heritage lines.

The pre-COVID world has gone and is as much a part of history as the Victorian age. The railway network needs a drastic programme of cost-reductions using as much technology as possible to reduce costs and reflect the cold economic reality of the new world.

1 - You mean BoJo might cancel HS2? No chance, it's supposed to be his legacy.

2 - Where would that leave HS2? As a volunteer-run heritage line?

3 - Yes - such as stopping throwing money at you know what.

 

[theageofthetra]

The incident lists have started making their way around social media.

Be interested to see those.

 

[HST274]

Be interested to see those.

Lots of 'wrong route offered and accepted' or 'routed incorrectly' etc etc

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Be interested to see those.

I’ve said rather a lot on this thread, so I’m going to just say one final thing.

This topic has been exceptionally dividing, and several posts have caused issue with other members, including my own. This is a controversial topic, and while I stand by my anti-strike stance, I recognise the extremely complex nature of railway jobs and the hard, hard work put into them by staff everyday, and have so much respect for them despite not being a supporter of strikes.

Therefore, if any of my posts have upset anyone due to me being against strike action, then I just want to apologise for that. I do have a anti-strike stance and I won’t be changing that despite some of you challenging it, but first and foremost we are all humans with individual opinions and I do not wish for anyone to be upset by my posts. For me, respect for others comes before getting my point across and that is why I just wish to add that I may not approve of strike action but I accept the right for workers to strike and the hard work of those choosing to.

And even though I loathe strikes with all my heart, if the railway industry do come out of it with a rise, I will be raising a glass with you. I cannot deny one is well deserved.

respect.

 

[atn1963]

Avanti running no direct service between Preston/Wigan/Warrington and Crewe On Wednesday and Friday this week till after 11.00 am.

Driving from Wigan to Crewe for these 4 days.

 

[800001]

Entirely possible but also unlikely - why would a non-union signaller who does the job every day suddenly make that many mistakes, on a day where far fewer trains are running?

Because these mistakes happen day in, day out, and a lot of the time it is ‘SARS’ and ‘ARS’ making the mistake.

Kings Cross is a good example, a train signalled into plat 1 or 2 on a line that can only access those platforms. However trains already occupy platform. Result, train has to set back and then go forward to a different platform. Has happened twice in the last week, and both times it was computer. So seeing a list of wrong routings does not necessarily mean it is human error.

 

[Starmill]

Avanti running no direct service between Preston/Wigan/Warrington and Crewe On Wednesday and Friday this week till after 11.00 am.

Driving from Wigan to Crewe for these 4 days.

Especially poor given there are 0800 and 0900 Preston to London Euston services.

 

[footprints]

Interestingly a ComRes poll released today says 58% of people surveyed think the rail strikes are justified, with 34% saying unjustified. Only 55% of Tory 2019 voters say the strikes are unjustified. The Tories strategy of attacking the RMT may not win them as much support as they think.

https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1539277133352259584

Asking whether the strikes are "justified" is not the same as asking whether people "support" them. All the surveys about the rail strike where the question is about whether people support those striking, rather than whether the industrial action is justified, show more people opposed than in favour.

For example:

https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1539277133352259584

 

[Thermal]

What frustrates me about a lot of comments on this forum is the argument that times have changed and therefore the railway needs to be 24/7 and, as above, have the same pension age as others, while ignoring the fact that times have changed and we know much more about the impacts of shift work on health, both physical and mental. Shift work is unavoidable on the railway and in other industries but the impact is ignored, both by management and by outsiders. We ought to be balancing the requirements of the railway to expand its hours with an understanding of the demands that places on staff. And if pension ages need to be extended then we need a sensible conversation about the suitability of shift work and what options there are to transition older workers into more suitable roles, should they desire. It's a conversation no one is willing to have though. Instead, we get people bleating about how we know what we're signing up for (not so, the Sundays and the unsociable hours have increased since I started) and that we can leave if we don't like it (or, we could divert the money needed for endlessly training new starters into retention via addressing some of these issues).

I caught the tail end of a Grant Shapps interview earlier, and he was making noises about the 4 day week, you could hear the eye rolling in his voice. But a 4 day week working office hours with some autonomy over your day is very different to working a 4 day week getting up pre 0300 and being bound by a diagram, with no wiggle room over when you can get a coffee.

I'm not suggesting the removal of unsociable hours and nor am I suggesting these are issues unique to the railway but I do think it needs to be included, and taken seriously, in conversations about the future of the industry.

I feel the same about nurses, firefighters etc. Their knowledge and experience is invaluable and should be made the most of, but is an active frontline role the best for everyone when the firefighter is 65?

This is an excellent point, and one that is often overlooked in rail and wider society. A study looking specifically at rail staff found that workers on a rotating shift pattern died on average 4 years earlier than day working colleagues. Another study found higher rates of many long term health problems, with a much higher rate of Alzheimer's in particular.

The railway will always require shift work, and staff fully accept that, however a wider debate around how the increased demand for flexible rostering, higher pension ages and more anti-social shifts may impact both quality and length of life, along with a discussion about the best way to move forward whilst providing meaningful mitigation to these issues is sorely lacking at present.

 

[jettofab]

This is an excellent point, and one that is often overlooked in rail and wider society. A study looking specifically at rail staff found that workers on a rotating shift pattern died on average 4 years earlier than day working colleagues. Another study found higher rates of many long term health problems, with a much higher rate of Alzheimer's in particular.

The railway will always require shift work, and staff fully accept that, however a wider debate around how the increased demand for flexible rostering, higher pension ages and more anti-social shifts may impact both quality and length of life, along with a discussion about the best way to move forward whilst providing meaningful mitigation to these issues is sorely lacking at present.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[jayah]

The irony being that the biggest trial of the 4 day working week across multiple businesses and sectors in this country's history is taking place.

But because railway workers already have it, it's bad mmm'k

4 day week only makes you more productive if you spend 2 days of 5 marking time.

 

[LordCreed]

Because these mistakes happen day in, day out, and a lot of the time it is ‘SARS’ and ‘ARS’ making the mistake

With the amount of altered schedules today, it really wouldn't surprise me if a number of these are schedule errors as opposed to Signaller errors

 

[Bald Rick]

With the amount of altered schedules today, it really wouldn't surprise me if a number of these are schedule errors as opposed to Signaller errors

and with a number of servcies operating on unusual headcodes, and booked on different tracks, who is to say that a regular signaller presented with this timetable wouldn’t have made similar errors?

of course we‘ll never know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What cost reductions? You wonder how mainland Europe is surviving without cutting back services...

They aren't. Germany is still closing branch lines, slowly but surely. And rural lines have mostly been DOO and with unstaffed stations for 20 years.

 

[jayah]

Mick Lynch very measured on C4 News won't be bated by Cathy Newman but basically says the first step is job protection before they will move onto talking about modernising and reiterates that they negotiated with NR to modernise track patrolling so they will engage.

As I've been saying for weeks my take is this can be resolved but govt have really backed themselves into a corner here and from BoJos rhetoric at cabinet this morning they want a fight here.

And there is the problem. They will only get better pay with higher productivity yet the RMT oppose to the death the two things that will cause greater productivity.

If we still had people paid as firemen, the RMT would be striking to ensure they didn't lose their jobs.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And there is the problem. They will only get better pay with higher productivity yet the RMT oppose to the death the two things that will cause greater productivity.

If we still had people paid as firemen, the RMT would be striking to ensure they didn't lose their jobs.

Well the industry once employed 500000 and its was largely slimmed down by negotiation.

Currently DfT aka HMT aren't dangling enough of a carrot to move things forward though.

 

[2021_Signaller]

and with a number of servcies operating on unusual headcodes, and booked on different tracks, who is to say that a regular signaller presented with this timetable wouldn’t have made similar errors?

of course we‘ll never know.

of course we know. Unusual headcodes happen every weekend with a significantly bigger service than today and we don't have this nonsense.

 

[theking]

of course we know. Unusual headcodes happen every weekend with a significantly bigger service than today and we don't have this nonsense.

Don't worry, people who dealt with the so called "signallers" today know.

But trying to justify that to enthusiasts on here is waste of time.

 

[2021_Signaller]

And there is the problem. They will only get better pay with higher productivity yet the RMT oppose to the death the two things that will cause greater productivity.

If we still had people paid as firemen, the RMT would be striking to ensure they didn't lose their jobs.

Flat wrong it's the management that made maintenance have significantly less productivity... As I wrote earlier...

At the heart of the railway is an inherent trade off. Safety versus performance. If safety is the overriding goal, productivity naturally suffers. It has to. I have to be sure something is safe before I can permit it. To not do so would expose me to criminal liability and lots of people to risk and danger.

The productivity claims are therefore as usual a misnomer from government (and now NR parroting this nonsense) because signallers are not assessed for their productivity. We are assessed for safety. Senior management continually impose very restrictive safety edicts and procedures on signallers so that maintenance tasks, for example, in between running trains take at least 3x longer to set up than they used to. You can definitely argue this is worthwhile as it reduces risk further (but only a small amount). However, you must also recognise that it has a productivity consequence. NRs senior management therefore asking for more productivity is ridiculous. These people are providing 0 leadership and are passing the buck again. They are blaming railway workers for their own incompetence.

 

[HL7]

How a properly managed depot should have operated today

I was surprised to say the least.

 

[tommy2215]

Asking whether the strikes are "justified" is not the same as asking whether people "support" them. All the surveys about the rail strike where the question is about whether people support those striking, rather than whether the industrial action is justified, show more people opposed than in favour.

For example:

https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1539277133352259584

That poll says the exact opposite of what you claimed? And of course no one wants the strikes, but clearly people place the blame on the government rather than the RMT. https://comresglobal.com/polls/transport-poll-21-june/

 

[sonic2009]

Any reason why West Mids Trains have abandoned services on the Birmingham Snow Hill - Worcester and Birmingham New Street to Hereford lines all week?

 

[The Planner]

Any reason why West Mids Trains have abandoned services on the Birmingham Snow Hill - Worcester and Birmingham New Street to Hereford lines all week?

Manning Droitwich and Worcester boxes? Possibly getting units on and off Tyseley during the block?