Great British Railways - Competition for new location of GBR Headquarters

[LNW-GW Joint]

The "losers" will probably get first dibs at the Regional HQs.
If it's anything like early BR they will have all the real power.
Crewe will be HS2 Central in a decade's time.
Note also nearby Stoke is Red Wall Tory, too.

 

[fgwrich]

Although can’t understand why Camborne missed out

Surely that’s because everyone knows that the train doesn’t stop there on a Wednesday, although relocating the HQ there might finally break that?

 

[EMU303]

Then Newcastle fits best if we’re talking GB rather than just England.

Given the Tories haven't won a general election in Scotland since 1955, currently have just 6 out of 59 Scottish MP's at Westminster, and either come in a distant second or third at Holyrood despite that being a PR system, there was never any doubt Scotland was not included. Just a political panto. I see Huw Edwards from the BBC has tweeted " My understanding of 'GB' has been shattered here" with a laughing emoji and the Welsh flag.

 

[jon0844]

I have no strong view on where the HQ should be, but I do think holding a public vote to decide is very strange. Surely you decide based on things like the availability of land/premises, the location of your existing workforce, the ability to recruit workers with the skills needed etc? And I do understand why the public sector would want to consider where best to provide employment opportunities.

But this competition approach is just odd. I guess it means the government can blame the people who voted (or didn't vote) when they get complaints from the regions that missed out.

I am sure they've already made up their mind, but this is a nice distraction and what was clearly a publicity stunt from the off.

I am also sure that most people haven't even thought about how pointless it is for you and me to make a decision on where it should go based on no proper research or consideration at all.

 

[Bald Rick]

The "losers" will probably get first dibs at the Regional HQs.

how does that work for Derby / Doncaster / York, all in Eastern Region?

 

[pdeaves]

how does that work for Derby / Doncaster / York, all in Eastern Region?

Regions can be changed if so desired. It may not be the most efficient way to run the network, but can be changed nonetheless. Anyway, LNW-GW Joint said they get first dibs; that can mean 'fight it out amongst themselves' rather than 'they all win'.

 

[Bald Rick]

Regions can be changed if so desired. It may not be the most efficient way to run the network, but can be changed nonetheless. Anyway, LNW-GW Joint said they get first dibs; that can mean 'fight it out amongst themselves' rather than 'they all win'.

York and Swindon already have first dibs… as it is where they are now!

 

[ac6000cw]

Birmingham certainly did have a railway HQ - LM Region moved there (from Euston) in the late 80s IIRC. It is also the HQ of NRs NW& C Region, Avanti, Cross Country and WMT.

BR HQ was always in London (the LMR was only a sub-division of BR), and none of the post-privatisation companies you mention are integrated railways.

Pre-nationalisation, the major railways in and around Birmingham were LNWR/GWR/Midland, then LMS/GWR - all headquartered elsewhere (Crewe/Derby/Swindon/London)

 

[zwk500]

Regions can be changed if so desired. It may not be the most efficient way to run the network, but can be changed nonetheless. Anyway, LNW-GW Joint said they get first dibs; that can mean 'fight it out amongst themselves' rather than 'they all win'.

NR have only just gone through the Regions/Routes setup (in fact, not all parts of NR have caught up). They won't be redoing it again too soon.

 

[Wynd]

Did they even bid to host the HQ? Only those who bid can be on the list.

Pass, i dont know.

 

[Bald Rick]

BR HQ was always in London (the LMR was only a sub-division of BR), and none of the post-privatisation companies you mention are integrated railways.

Yes I know that. But by that definition none of the other shortlisted cities have had an HQ in the post nationalisation world.

I don’t think we should be basing a decision on whether a city had an HQ or not 3/4 of a century ago.

 

[X-City-WM]

Links to the expressions of interest for the shortlisted cities:

Birmingham

Crewe

Derby

Doncaster

Newcastle

York

I thought they all made interesting reading and put across good reasons in their own way of where GBR could/should be housed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly varied quality among those. Crewe and Derby seem to be really trying hard to sell (Crewe glitzy, Derby by appealing to the rational side), Donny's looks weak and amateurish, Newcastle OK-but-not-amazing, York a bit "we're just going to answer the questions without any sort of promotion" (did they give it to a teenager to do as an assignment?) and Birmingham just quite presumptive with an air of "of course we're the place, just find a random office building".

Certainly a scan-read hasn't changed my view that Crewe would be best overall, though I could be swayed on Derby.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Absolutely amazed Crewe is Tory given how run down it is. Is it because the constituency includes somewhere posh like Nantwich?

Thus spoke someone unfamiliar with the town of Dewsbury!
The rural hinterland will be the reason- likewise Dewsbury constituency includes posh places like Mirfield and Denby Dale (and all the surrounding villages).

 

[Dr Hoo]

Birmingham certainly did have a railway HQ - LM Region moved there (from Euston) in the late 80s IIRC. It is also the HQ of NRs NW& C Region, Avanti, Cross Country and WMT.

Come on, Rick! You missed that fact that Regional Railways HQ was in 'Meridian' on Smallbrook Queensway during the final flowering of the sectors.

(People have also forgotten that it was the HQ of the Harbourne Railway, under its Act of 28 June 1866, which remained independent until the 'Grouping' in 1923.)

 

[greyman42]

Absolutely amazed Crewe is Tory given how run down it is.

You could say the reverse about York(central) which is Labour and affluent for the North.
Does anyone have an estimate as to how big the office building will have to be? (in square feet)

 

[CDM]

I am also sure that most people haven't even thought about how pointless it is for you and me to make a decision on where it should go based on no proper research or consideration at all.

That ^^^^

It's an absolutely ridiculous gimmick, asking public to vote on something on which they have absolutely no rational or practical knowledge, that affects the ongoing taxpayer spend for decades.

And this is the government that says it's "efficient" and "the party of business"...

What an absolute bloody farce.

Still, great distraction from all the scandals they're mopped up in and another nice photo-op for Shapps, eh?

Pass, i dont know.

Edinburgh yes, Glasgow, no.

42 towns and cities launch their bid to become new home for Great Britain’s railways

Overwhelming response from towns and cities with strong links to the railways across nations and regions Public to have say with online vote

media.gbrtt.co.uk

 

[jfollows]

Absolutely amazed Crewe is Tory given how run down it is. Is it because the constituency includes somewhere posh like Nantwich?

It was pretty solidly Labour with Gwyneth Dunwoody, but after she died Edward Timpson (think shoes) won, however he lost the seat again in 2017 and removed himself to safer Eddisbury (very blue, Brexity). Needs a 7.87% swing to go back to Labour (74th. in the list of Labour target seats ordered by swing required to win).

 

[SteveM70]

posh places like Mirfield

Woah!!!!

Given the context was Dewsbury, I’ll accept relatively posh

 

[Wynd]

Having had a quick glance. Derby is a very logical place to put this from an industry perspective. Along with Crewe and Doncaster, Newcastle, it has the lowest land values and represents the best value for money.

Birmingham makes a near flawless argument as to why it should not be chosen from a leveling up agenda, simultaneously arguing it has a massive economy, the highest land values of any of the bids and has limited rail industry links compared with some of the others.

My own suspicion is that senior members of the establishment would rather it was York over anywhere else, as its probably the most desirable place to live of the entrants if one is of a particular social class. No, I wont hand over my tar brush just yet!

Further, from skim reading these, York is the only one making an explicit Union Connectivity link which is probably going to resonate with said senior members of the hierarchy. Newcastle is referencing this too, and has an extremely attractive site to place the offices.

I am absolutely and outsider, I'm not in the industry, and if i was a betting man, it would be a split between York and Derby. I think Newcastle would be a very clever move, but I think its unlikely to be seen on merit, but I very much hope to be proven wrong.

Edinburgh yes, Glasgow, no.

42 towns and cities launch their bid to become new home for Great Britain’s railways

Overwhelming response from towns and cities with strong links to the railways across nations and regions Public to have say with online vote

media.gbrtt.co.uk

I wonder why Edinburgh got filtered out. I suspect land values around the station would be the highest of the whole lot!

 

[quantinghome]

Where does this leave the National Centre at Milton Keynes? It only opened 10 years ago.

I'm fine with moving HQs out of London but wherever GBR HQ ends up, it's got to stick with it. We can't be forever reshuffling an organisation.

 

[Cardiff123]

Given the Tories haven't won a general election in Scotland since 1955, currently have just 6 out of 59 Scottish MP's at Westminster, and either come in a distant second or third at Holyrood despite that being a PR system, there was never any doubt Scotland was not included. Just a political panto. I see Huw Edwards from the BBC has tweeted " My understanding of 'GB' has been shattered here" with a laughing emoji and the Welsh flag.

The same applies to Wales, where the Tories have not won an election for over 100 years, since the Labour party was formed. Seeing as ScotRail and TfW will both have their own HQ's in Scotland & Wales, it was never going to be located anywhere other than in England regardless. But Swansea/Cardiff and Glasgow/Edinburgh could have been included in the shortlist to keep up the pretence that "Great British Railways" is actually a British operation, not an English one.

 

[jfollows]

Absolutely amazed Crewe is Tory given how run down it is. Is it because the constituency includes somewhere posh like Nantwich?

Here are the wards making up the constituency (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Crewe+and+Nantwich):
As you say, Nantwich pretty blue, Leighton & Nantwich N & W the only two wards "predicted" to switch to Labour in the next election, Leighton's the one in the north of the constituency with the hospital I thinik.

 

[zwk500]

Where does this leave the National Centre at Milton Keynes? It only opened 10 years ago.

I'm fine with moving HQs out of London but wherever GBR HQ ends up, it's got to stick with it. We can't be forever reshuffling an organisation.

At the moment, no change is proposed to Quadrant:MK, on the grounds that as it's not the HQ now, moving the HQ makes no difference!

 

[MattRat]

I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up somewhere barely outside of London (in terms of travelling there and back), like Reading.

 

[Mojo]

Euston-New St 1h24
Euston-Crewe 1h30

If you consider that Crewe is such that they'll be able to build it right next to the station (and so they should) due to plentiful, cheap land (there's a load of street level parking it could be put on, with capacity restored by building a multi storey), but in Birmingham it'd have to go on an industrial park or in a suburb due to lack of available urban land and high cost of it, I'd say Crewe actually wins there, because the end to end journey from London will be quicker (1h30 plus a short walk vs. 1h24 plus a bus, tram or rail connection or more likely a taxi).

There’s a lot of derelict urban land right in the city centre of Birmingham. Also with HS2 it will be a lot shorter journey time.

 

[ac6000cw]

Yes I know that. But by that definition none of the other shortlisted cities have had an HQ in the post nationalisation world.

I don’t think we should be basing a decision on whether a city had an HQ or not 3/4 of a century ago.

I entirely agree (but one has to make a voting choice based on some sort of personal criteria), and I don't expect my vote for Birmingham to make any difference to the outcome either.

As you said it's not likely to have more than a few hundred people actually working there (I see it as the equivalent of the BRB of old - top-level strategy and decision making, overall financial management and interfacing with Government).

As long as it has decent passenger rail services and is in an area attractive to the sort of talented & knowledgeable people it should be employing (as we shouldn't be encouraging long-distance commuting in this environmentally-sensitive age), I can't see it makes much difference where it goes other than for political reasons.

 

[quantinghome]

I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up somewhere barely outside of London (in terms of travelling there and back), like Reading.

If they were doing that they would have shortlisted MK, given it has 3000 network rail staff already in the 'national centre'.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If they were doing that they would have shortlisted MK, given it has 3000 network rail staff already in the 'national centre'.

Yes, but how many of those NR staff would be in a GBR HQ role?
There are probably going to be just as many ex-DfT and ex-TOC employees in the HQ functions.
It all depends whether the HQ is "supervisory" in character, like the BRB board was, or is going to provide the engine-room of the railway (eg timetabling, fares control, project management etc).
The more power the Regions have, the less is needed in the HQ.

 

[MattRat]

If they were doing that they would have shortlisted MK, given it has 3000 network rail staff already in the 'national centre'.

Is the shortlist guaranteed though, because there seems to be some confusion about that, at least for me.

And if the shortlist is guaranteed, then I'd say Birmingham.