"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[duncanp]

When you consider that covid cases are rising, th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date. This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

Absolute poppycock.

COVID cases in the current "wave" are currently falling, and even the lagging indicators of hospital admissions and deaths have plateaued.

There is also nothing inevitable about compulsory masks and social distancing.

And as for "a month or two lockdown" in more severe years (define "more severe" please) are you having a laugh?

The economic, social and mental health implications of the past two years are becoming ever more apparent, as well as the effectiveness of some of the measures implemented.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

When you consider that covid cases are rising, th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date. This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

Two words: Get stuffed.

 

[duncanp]

Two words: Get stuffed.

I could think of two more words I would like to use in response to this suggestion, but I wouldn't be allowed to post the first word here.

The second word is "off".

 

[GC class B1]

On the BBC this morning Chris Smith the virologist stated that there is concern now about flu this winter. In Australia as predicted there is now a big problem with flu and this is because the lockdown and social distancing last winter meant people weren’t exposed to the flu virus and didn’t build up immunity by coming into contact with the virus. The same argument must therefore apply to covid as exposure builds up immunity.

 

[kez19]

On the BBC this morning Chris Smith the virologist stated that there is concern now about flu this winter. In Australia as predicted there is now a big problem with flu and this is because the lockdown and social distancing last winter meant people weren’t exposed to the flu virus and didn’t build up immunity by coming into contact with the virus. The same argument must therefore apply to covid as exposure builds up immunity.

The thing is/was I remember I think it was in either 2020/21 there was a press conference and one of the members mentioned this very thing but it came across as if they were happy about that flu was gone but the following year it be making a comeback? I would say even back then I was a bit skeptical as to what was meant but then on the other it makes you think if it was done on purpose? You knock one out another steps in, you panic about the other one with having the other circulating, like I say it looks more to me as if its been deliberate, happy to be proved wrong.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/c...-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

samples between 28 December 2020 and 14 February 2021.

Just one positive flu case was detected out of 1,075 samples tested between 21 December and 29 December 2020.


The weekly flu reports also reveal that there were very few hospital or ICU/HDU admissions for flu within the same period – with just seven hospital admissions and one ICU/HDU admission between 21 December and 14 February.

PHE head of flu Dr Vanessa Saliba said both public health guidance and restrictions as well as high flu vaccination uptake have likely led to the low levels of flu circulating this season.

She said: ‘The decrease in flu cases this year is likely due to changes in our behaviour, such as social distancing, face coverings and handwashing, as well as the reduction in international travel.

 

[Class 33]

When you consider that covid cases are rising, th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date. This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

Mask wearing and social distancing more or less normalised now for most people?? I hardly think so!!! What planet are you living on??!! I'd say at least about 95% of people in the UK now have ditched wearing face masks. And near enough everyone gave up "socially distancing" months and months and MONTHS ago!! It is incredibly rare nowadays to see anyone still doing that nonsense charade. Still see some people doing it occasionally. But by and large, only a MINISCULE amount of people are still doing that now!

The normal now is NOT wearing stupid pointless face masks and NOT socially distancing!!!! The vast vast majority of us are back to living normal lives!!

Social distancing was scrapped just over a year ago now. And hasn't been brought back since then, not even when the Omicron variant/wave started late last year. It is highly highly unlikely the government will bring back that wreckless damaging hassly restrictive nonsense again. Social distancing wrecked thousands of businesses and effected millions of peoples mental health, including mine. If that nonsense(along with the mandatory mask wearing nonsense) still dragged on past 19th July last year, I don't know if I'd have been able to take it much longer. Thank goodness that that damaging nonsense is highly unlikely to be brought back again!!!

 

[MikeWM]

It's been very dry down here recently, and indeed it often is - 2018 was notably so.

I do expect the government are going to make public raindances compulsory for the population to participate in daily, every June and July, going forward. And if it gets particularly bad in any year, I suppose we will have to sacrifice some young maidens to the rain god.

After all, we have to do something, right? It doesn't actually seem to matter if it is something *useful*, as long as it makes everyone as miserable as possible.

 

[danm14]

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

If regular lockdowns and permanent restrictions become a reality, I sincerely, sincerely hope that neither you nor your family will be impacted by the increased suicide rate that will result from people deciding that a world of permanent restrictions and lockdowns is no longer a world they wish to be a part of.

 

[Freightmaster]

When you consider that covid cases are rising, th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date. This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

Calm down guys - this has got to be a parody/troll post - nobody in their right mind could actually think that
annual "month or two" lockdowns during a crippling recession/cost of living/mental health crisis just because
the NHS cannot cope with an endemic virus is even a remotely sane idea??




MARK

 

[Huntergreed]

Calm down guys - this has got to be a parody/troll post - nobody in their right mind could actually think that
annual "month or two" lockdowns during a crippling recession/cost of living/mental health crisis just because
the NHS cannot cope with an endemic virus is even a remotely sane idea??




MARK

Tell that to some of the experts, who share exactly that view! Scary I know!

 

[yorksrob]

Calm down guys - this has got to be a parody/troll post - nobody in their right mind could actually think that
annual "month or two" lockdowns during a crippling recession/cost of living/mental health crisis just because
the NHS cannot cope with an endemic virus is even a remotely sane idea??




MARK

I think we made a reasoned response to the post, which was probably worthwhile as good arguments need to be made again and again.

 

[Freightmaster]

I think we made a reasoned response to the post, which was probably worthwhile as good arguments need to be made again and again.

I agree, but my point was that the poster must have been knowingly trolling as nobody remotely sane could think that
lockdowns/masks are a viable way of addressing the ongoing NHS capacity issues, which will take many years to resolve
and certainly won't be helped any way by people wearing masks on trains or the return of one way systems in Tesco!

When people post deliberately inflammatory diatribes like that, 'reasoned responses' are dismissed out of hand, so the
best response is probably a single 'rolling eyes' smiley and then add them to the ignore list!




MARK

 

[NLC1072]

I think we made a reasoned response to the post, which was probably worthwhile as good arguments need to be made again and again.

There are just a few types of people who want another lockdown/mask wearing/restrictions;

1) Those who lockdowns/restrictions provided a position of power/money
2) Those who require the feeling of self-righteousness and enjoy bullying others
3) Those who are of a nervous disposition

And that is it.

 

[Razorblades]

Fear-mongering you say? Well get a load of THIS:

"Monkeypox: WHO declares highest alert over outbreak"

- yes, it's the usual culprits at the BBC, reporting on Alarmist-in-Chief 'Doctor' Tedros' decision to raise the threat level of the next fakery. Link here, but don't read if you're liable to bouts of unrestrained anger over the Bull**** Broadcasting Corporation and its ways...

Monkeypox: WHO declares highest alert over outbreak

More than 16,000 cases have been reported from 75 countries, the organisation says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[nw1]

When you consider that covid cases are rising, th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

Given that the Covid (or more technically, Sars-Cov-2 positive tests) cases are pretty mild on the whole, is there any real need?

Also monkeypox is equally mild and is only spreading by sexual contact, from what I can make out. Did we have restrictions for any other STD in the past? Please, let's stop the hysteria over monkeypox unless it starts spreading like Covid did in 2020.

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing. Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

A sacrifice that will screw the economy every few years, and lead to certain sectors of the economy (hospitality, retail) living in constant fear that they could be locked down at any time. Again, why? "More severe years" in the past would presumably include 2009 (swine flu), 1999 (severe flu), 1968 and 1969 (flu pandemic), 1957 and 1958 (flu pandemic) and so on. None of these years attracted lockdowns, and the earlier ones in the 50s and 60s were presumably in a time when we had a much more basic health system. Why do you suggest lockdowns in future when nothing even close to them was required in any of these previous years?

Sars-Cov-2 is nothing like as severe now as it was in 2020 or early 2021 so why are drastic interventions needed now? Where I am right now I've had reports of several people, of varying ages, testing positive and none of them have had even a flu-severity illness let alone at risk of death.

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

Or, it could exacerbate people's SAD. Being stuck at home in the dark days of winter, without the opportunity for socialisation that going into work, pubs or even shopping could offer, is some people's idea of hell.

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date. This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

We cannot become complacent about the effect restrictions have on the economy, that's for sure. On this forum I see tales of a railway struggling to operate due to having insufficient staff, being unable to afford new trains, local services struggling due to a loss of subsidy from formerly-profitable commuter services, all leading to consequent service cuts, and that's just the railways. Worse, we have high energy prices.

And I'm speaking as someone firmly on the left of the political spectrum here: I'm no Thatcherite concerned only about corporate profit. It's a sure sign that lockdowns and restrictions come with a down-side which must not be ignored.

 

[Tracked]

Also monkeypox is equally mild and is only spreading by sexual contact, from what I can make out. Did we have restrictions for any other STD in the past?

Masking up of - ahem - a different area was encouraged over the AIDS crisis during the 80's.

Regarding reintroducing restrictions, we maybe need a bit more info on what the government plans to do around the backlogs/increases in infection to counter these, it sometimes feels like they aren't that bothered. Always felt their Covid response seemed to be:

1) There's no problem,
2) Ok, there's a problem but it's nothing to worry about,
3) PANIC!!!!!

although that might be just me.

 

[nw1]

Masking up of - ahem - a different area was encouraged over the AIDS crisis during the 80's.

A bit different though. I'm not sure that we could justify the use of masks and full on Covid-style social distancing to protect us against monkeypox.

Just some calm advice to avoid casual sex is all that is required.

Regarding reintroducing restrictions, we maybe need a bit more info on what the government plans to do around the backlogs/increases in infection to counter these, it sometimes feels like they aren't that bothered. Always felt their Covid response seemed to be:

1) There's no problem,
2) Ok, there's a problem but it's nothing to worry about,
3) PANIC!!!!!

although that might be just me.

But Sars-Cov-2 is not going away, and we really can't constantly be living in constant fear of harsh restrictions (such as encouragement to take a test if you have mild cold-like symptoms, mandatory self-isolation if positive, travel restrictions, and lockdown) if we want to recover economically and psychologically anytime soon.

We didn't suffer years and years of restrictions for any other pandemic or bad flu season since WWI, including the big 1918 Spanish flu. Why now?

If the NHS has a problem, then should there not be more of an effort to fix it? I don't want to get into the "is it the government's fault or NHS management's fault?" argument, as I actually don't know the answer, but I am sure that we can't just take the "restriction" line every time the NHS has problems.

 

[philosopher]

There are just a few types of people who want another lockdown/mask wearing/restrictions;

1) Those who lockdowns/restrictions provided a position of power/money
2) Those who require the feeling of self-righteousness and enjoy bullying others
3) Those who are of a nervous disposition

And that is it.

To me, the biggest proponents of restrictions were many of those who work from home, as restrictions meant they saved considerable amounts of time and money from the lack of the commute, negating the downsides of restrictions. This was especially so if they had long commutes and / or homes with a lot of spare room.

Given working from home is a lot more common now, going forward I suspect this would be less of factor from those advocating new restrictions. New restrictions now would for many of this group mean only saving 1 or 2 days of commuting, rather than 4 or 5 days of commuting as was the case in 2020.

 

[Tracked]

A bit different though. I'm not sure that we could justify the use of masks and full on Covid-style social distancing to protect us against monkeypox.

Just some calm advice to avoid casual sex is all that is required.

Actually, I'm not sure the AIDs thing was too different to Covid in terms of messaging, what I'm thinking about is the AIDS advert, the one with the big Gravestone:

so it's not a recent thing.

So I'm thinking Good Luck if you're expecting calm advice - which, in fairness, is all that's required - for MonkeyPox

 

[kristiang85]

I would argue that lockdowns were one of the single most harmful things done for the NHS. Given the amount of public money needed to sustain such a leviathan health service, implementing a policy that spent huge amounts of public money in furlough, etc and then subsequently trashed the economy means that the NHS will not get the kind of money it wants. And even the funds it does get are lost in a pit of waste.

Then, not to mention that people lost livelihoods and endured some quite painful at at times rather demeaning restrictions on their lives in order to "save the NHS", which in turn is not serving them in return in many cases, that public support for sustaining such a service is only going to keep waning.

 

[yorkie]

When you consider that covid cases are rising,

Do you have any evidence that Sars-CoV-2 infections are currently rising?

The latest test data says they are declining and the Zoe study agrees with this.

Furthermore, the majority of people who are admitted to hospital who test positive with Sars-CoV-2 are incidental cases and are not ill with Covid; the number of people seriously ill with Sars-CoV-2 infections is an incredibly small proportion compared to those infected.

th backlog of people waiting for NHS treatment and now monkeypox there is a certain inevitability that restrictions are due again.

What sort of restrictions do you have in mind?

People are not going to comply; you are welcome to restrict yourself (and others are too) but most people have had enough.

What would your purpose of restrictions be? To delay the onset of endemic equilibrium? Or do you think that we can suppress the virus? What's your longer term strategy?

I think we are just going to have to get used to wearing masks during the winter months and social distancing.

The only type of masks that are proven to protect against virus transmission are FFP2/3 respirators; anyone who distrusts vaccines is welcome to wear one. There is no need for anyone else to wear one.

As for social distancing, are you offering to compensate companies to reduce capacities? Where will you get the money from? I am not prepared for the country to take on yet more debt to pay for this.

Hopefully most years will be mild and this is all that will be needed but on some more severe years a month or two lockdown will be a sacrifice that we just have to make to protect the vulnerable and the health services.

Lockdowns do not "prevent" vulnerable people being exposed to Sars-CoV-2; lockdowns delay infections; they do not prevent them. Who is going to pay for your lockdowns? Are you proposing to close schools? Are you aware of the long term effects of lockdowns?

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people.

They are not. The proportion of people who refuse to enter crowded spaces and/or who wear masks is absolutely tiny.

Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas's and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

Many jobs cannot be done from home; many of us do traditional proper jobs that actually involve physically doing something rather than just be sat at a computer all day! (before anyone criticises me, I do multiple jobs and include myself in both categories) The idea that we can have a functional and productive society if we all sit at home is deeply flawed.

While people like yourself may be saving money, that is money that would be destined for people who do not have the luxury of working from home. How are those people going to be paid? Or would you just deprive them of their income for a few months?

As the experts tell us we cannot afford to become complacent now and undo all our achievements to date.

What experts are you thinking of and what have they said exactly? Please link and quote. If you are calling people like Ding, Pagel, Greenhalgh etc "experts", my response is that there are many true experts who have more of a grip on reality who disagree with them.

This is the new normall for at least a few more years.

No it isn't; the new normal is Sars-CoV-2 going exactly the same way as similar viruses, such as OC43 before it, and becoming the 5th endemic human coronavirus.

 

[LAX54]

Mask wearing and social distancing more or less normalised now for most people?? I hardly think so!!! What planet are you living on??!! I'd say at least about 95% of people in the UK now have ditched wearing face masks. And near enough everyone gave up "socially distancing" months and months and MONTHS ago!! It is incredibly rare nowadays to see anyone still doing that nonsense charade. Still see some people doing it occasionally. But by and large, only a MINISCULE amount of people are still doing that now!

The normal now is NOT wearing stupid pointless face masks and NOT socially distancing!!!! The vast vast majority of us are back to living normal lives!!

Social distancing was scrapped just over a year ago now. And hasn't been brought back since then, not even when the Omicron variant/wave started late last year. It is highly highly unlikely the government will bring back that wreckless damaging hassly restrictive nonsense again. Social distancing wrecked thousands of businesses and effected millions of peoples mental health, including mine. If that nonsense(along with the mandatory mask wearing nonsense) still dragged on past 19th July last year, I don't know if I'd have been able to take it much longer. Thank goodness that that damaging nonsense is highly unlikely to be brought back again!!!

Agree, very few seem to be wearing them now, just the 'odd' few, the ones I have seen are those on their own, walking down the road, (normal road, no shops), driving a car...on their own, and the scariest one I saw the other day, a parent was almost forcing their 9 or 10 year old child to put a mask on before they went into a 'One-Stop' store.

 

[yorkie]

Although Omicron is called Covid, it is more like Influenza-21 than Covid-19 for having such a low severity rate.

There is some confusion here; Omicron is the name given to the latest iteration of the Sars-CoV-2 virus.

Two things are happening (in line with expectations); firstly the virus is evolving, through natural selection, to adapt for humans. Secondly, our immune systems are adapting to learn how to live with this virus and collectively our population immunity to the virus is improving all the time.

Early in the pandemic around one third of infections were asymptomatic; this is surely now much higher but it is difficult to estimate what proportion this may be.

Of those infections that are symptomatic, the proportion that are very mild is increasing all the time. Only a very tiny proportion (far less than when the novel virus was first introduced into an immunologically naive population) of infections result in serious disease.

The name COVID-19 was given to the disease (not the virus) which at the time often presented unusual symptoms, not like the symptoms similar viruses give us. This was because at the time it was a novel virus and we didn't have any adaptive immunity to it whatsoever. That has now changed.

Agree, very few seem to be wearing them now, just the 'odd' few, the ones I have seen are those on their own, walking down the road, (normal road, no shops), driving a car...on their own, and the scariest one I saw the other day, a parent was almost forcing their 9 or 10 year old child to put a mask on before they went into a 'One-Stop' store.

That sounds potentially like child abuse; depending on what I witnessed I may have said something.

 

[scarby]

It's not great but mask wearing and social distancing are more or less normalised now for most people. Lockdowns are less so but if done in January when little is going off after Christmas and its cold and dark outside then working from home and staying in is something we can live with. Plus it helps save money after Christmas.

A lot of people who work very hard in all sorts of businesses and services over Christmas and New Year take deserved holidays in January. Many people, especially pensioners perhaps with limited budgets, like to take advantage of bargain holidays in January in warmer places such as Cyprus or Malta or even southern France or Italy. It is the ski season in Scotland and across Europe, a very important month for this business that has a limited time-frame and one that was largely destroyed in 2021. In turn businesses such as airlines depend on these and all sorts of other travellers to help see them through this period.

So there isn't "little going off after Christmas" for everyone. Do you think all these people should just stay at home and stare at the walls or watch their businesses or jobs go to ruin?

 

[Freightmaster]

A lot of people who work very hard in all sorts of businesses and services over Christmas and New Year take deserved holidays in January. Many people, especially pensioners perhaps with limited budgets, like to take advantage of bargain holidays in January in warmer places such as Cyprus or Malta or even southern France or Italy. It is the ski season in Scotland and across Europe, a very important month for this business that has a limited time-frame and one that was largely destroyed in 2021. In turn businesses such as airlines depend on these and all sorts of other travellers to help see them through this period.

So there isn't "little going off after Christmas" for everyone. Do you think all these people should just stay at home and stare at the walls or watch their businesses or jobs go to ruin?

In addition to all that January is also one of the peak months for suicides even in a 'normal' year without
the added triggers of lockdown-related job losses, financial destitution, relationship breakdowns, etc...





MARK

 

[westv]

Many jobs cannot be done from home; many of us do traditional proper jobs that actually involve physically doing something rather than just be sat at a computer all day! (before anyone criticises me, I do multiple jobs and include myself in both categories)

Even so can we not perpetuate this myth that only physical jobs are "proper jobs"

 

[DustyBin]

A lot of people who work very hard in all sorts of businesses and services over Christmas and New Year take deserved holidays in January. Many people, especially pensioners perhaps with limited budgets, like to take advantage of bargain holidays in January in warmer places such as Cyprus or Malta or even southern France or Italy. It is the ski season in Scotland and across Europe, a very important month for this business that has a limited time-frame and one that was largely destroyed in 2021. In turn businesses such as airlines depend on these and all sorts of other travellers to help see them through this period.

So there isn't "little going off after Christmas" for everyone. Do you think all these people should just stay at home and stare at the walls or watch their businesses or jobs go to ruin?

Hospitality is generally quiet in January and after a busy December many people who work in the industry take a well earned break. Imagine saying to them “take as much time off as you like but you’re not going anywhere or doing anything”.

As much as I strongly disagree with @STINT47 (and was the first person to say so!) I do wonder if their post reflects a coping mechanism as opposed to a pro-restriction view?

 

[greyman42]

Don't think Sunak would be receptive to calls for restrictions but don't trust Truss one inch.

Starmer is the one we need to worry about regarding the re-introduction of restrictions, but thankfully he will not be the PM in the near future.

 

[yorkie]

Even so can we not perpetuate this myth that only physical jobs are "proper jobs"

The point is we can't have a functioning, productive society if everyone sits at home; the most important jobs don't involve sitting at home. Those who think that lockdowns are a solution are disrespectful towards those who need to go into work and my point stands.

 

[bramling]

The point is we can't have a functioning, productive society if everyone sits at home; the most important jobs don't involve sitting at home. Those who think that lockdowns are a solution are disrespectful towards those who need to go into work and my point stands.

Agreed. Some of the Home Counties wannabee types will, in the medium term, find they have a rude awakening as employers realise there will be people in other parts of the country prepared to do the same roles on considerably lower remuneration than people in the south-east expect. It would also seem that working at home has had a negative impact on the way some people behave - presumably the result of not having to answer to and interact with people in the more formal setting of a workplace.

The government does seem to have pandered to this (relatively small in the grand scheme of things) group throughout the whole Covid affair. Perhaps this is the result of Johnson’s notorious view of what he regards as “plebs”?