"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[nw1]

"Internal market competition being put aside to enable more collaboration" sounds good, but isn't it time that NHS managers concentrate on fixing the NHS rather than apparently encouraging people to stay away, albeit via soft rather than hard measures if my reading of the article is correct.

There isn't a huge suggestion of going back to Covid-style measures, but there is too much of a "we can't handle the patients" message and that does worry me. Why do they not think they can handle the patients? Is government the problem, or NHS management? If the former, why haven't they been spending the last two years pressurising the Government more? If the latter, it's clear that new, more competent management is needed. Whatever, they seem to be pushing the message that we all have to accept a "new norm" in which the NHS doesn't function properly.

Time to go back to the old, pre-2020, norm. The UK is a relatively affluent (albeit maybe less than it was) western country, surely we can have a decent health service. While it has had its problems, the country managed to keep the NHS in a reasonably acceptable state from 1948 to 2019. Why not now? Why are surgeries discouraging patients? That would never have been considered acceptable in 2019 or before.

 

[kez19]

What is really needed is an honest conversation about the NHS. It's an utterly appalling organisation that needs ripping apart and starting again.

We as the public should but what about the media shouldn't they be having this conversation with those in charge or is the media still happy peddling that the NHS is invincible to criticism?

The media are quick to defend the NHS about cuts and not coping, so where is the flipside of the situation of them questioning more about why it is in such a state? (i'll partly leave the governments out of this one for this part or if you wanted fine criticise the UK government but ask that very same question to the devolved nations if they are that interested ie NHS Scotland), but I doubt the media care unless its just to kick the UK Government and nothing more.

 

[bramling]

What is really needed is an honest conversation about the NHS. It's an utterly appalling organisation that needs ripping apart and starting again.

Really there has needed to be an honest conversation about the NHS for many years. Just thinking around my own personal circle of contacts, I can think of nothing but appalling NHS experiences. Fortunately I’ve not needed to use the NHS much myself in recent years, but what limited experience I’ve had has also been highly negative.

Now there maybe an element of unrealistic expectations, however we definitely shouldn’t be going all misty-eyed when it comes to discussing the NHS. It certainly isn’t amazing, and the staff are no more heroes than all the other people who went to work during Spring 2020.

 

[greyman42]

Why are surgeries discouraging patients? That would never have been considered acceptable in 2019 or before.

Possibly because before 2019 they did not think they could get away with it.

 

[bramling]

Possibly because before 2019 they did not think they could get away with it.

I suspect that’s exactly what it is. The service at my surgery has progressively declined over the last 2 decades. Once upon a time you made an appointment with “your doctor”. Then that seemed to become impossible and you saw whoever could see you. Then over time it became increasingly difficult to see anyone, with guilt-tripping being applied (“we can do you an appointment if it’s an emergency”). Then they merged with another surgery, so from then on you might not even be seen by someone in your own surgery. Meanwhile when you do see them it has seemed to become increasingly rushed, and the receptionists have become increasingly rottweiler-ish as the years have gone by. People in my town report it’s exactly the same in all the surgeries.

So in many ways Covid was the natural progression from all this.

 

[Hans]

The NHS were clapped, hero worshipped, given free food and discounts on many products and services, plus given pay rises whenever they demand them. They were allowed to have sick leave on a "positive" test, many were furloughed for 2 years and they apparently worked at home. Now there are the highest waiting list numbers ever and numerous people going to A&E because GP's are still hiding behind their sofas, so NHS staff are very busy, for many I doubt they want to actually return to doing their jobs, it was far more enjoyable being at home.

The implementation of the draconian mandatory vaccine requirement for care home and nhs staff, saw many leave the profession. I doubt, very much, many of them have returned or the vacancies have been filled.

The problem with the whole NHS now is it has become untouchable, they demand more money whichever colour of government is in office, gives them it. The NHS continue to waste the money, the service they provide never improves.

 

[duncanp]

What is really needed is an honest conversation about the NHS. It's an utterly appalling organisation that needs ripping apart and starting again.

Couldn't agree more.

Part of the problem though is that the NHS too much of a sacred cow, and worship of it is almost a national religion.

But as with any religion, the fanatics and zealots, who will brook no criticism, damage the very organisation they purport to support.

Wait until 5th July next year, when the NHS celebrates its 75th birthday, to see an explosion of nauseating hypocrisy about how good it is, and how much better it would be if only the nasty evil Tory government would give it more funding, without worrying too much about what the extra funding is spent on.

 

[kez19]

The NHS were clapped, hero worshipped, given free food and discounts on many products and services, plus given pay rises whenever they demand them. They were allowed to have sick leave on a "positive" test, many were furloughed for 2 years and they apparently worked at home. Now there are the highest waiting list numbers ever and numerous people going to A&E because GP's are still hiding behind their sofas, so NHS staff are very busy, for many I doubt they want to actually return to doing their jobs, it was far more enjoyable being at home.

The implementation of the draconian mandatory vaccine requirement for care home and nhs staff, saw many leave the profession. I doubt, very much, many of them have returned or the vacancies have been filled.

The problem with the whole NHS now is it has become untouchable, they demand more money whichever colour of government is in office, gives them it. The NHS continue to waste the money, the service they provide never improves.

You raise a point and it’s something I noted back then, the whole clapping the hands for NHS, when people worked in other care sectors (were ignored until a month or 2 later by press/media), I clapped initially but even I began to find it embarrassing, it came across as more of a media highlight of the week, Sky BBC ITV etc having cameras out showing people clapping (whilst it can be viewed as appreciative it can also look as some sort of other motive)

As with the NHS looking untouchable but I stem that too back to the media, if they catch wind of cuts etc to the media, media then whinge about it and expect it be saved, but yet the media don’t scrutinise the talking heads they have on other than bash the government(s)

Couldn't agree more.

Part of the problem though is that the NHS too much of a sacred cow, and worship of it is almost a national religion.

But as with any religion, the fanatics and zealots, who will brook no criticism, damage the very organisation they purport to support.

Wait until 5th July next year, when the NHS celebrates its 75th birthday, to see an explosion of nauseating hypocrisy about how good it is, and how much better it would be if only the nasty evil Tory government would give it more funding, without worrying too much about what the extra funding is spent on.

Oh you know they’ll positively spin the whole COVID again to mark 75 I’ll expect the BBC (mostly) to come to their aid..

 

[adc82140]

What is really needed is an honest conversation about the NHS. It's an utterly appalling organisation that needs ripping apart and starting again.

This particular NHS worker thoroughly agrees with you. My years in clinical practice have shown me that it's an inefficient behemoth. I could tell you stories of waste that would make you weep. The problems can't be solved by throwing money at them. It'd only get squandered. Management is very dependent on personality, not accountability. There are some good managers out there, but also terrible ones. But to those who suggest the NHS would work better with fewer managers, you don't want "doctors and nurses" managing. Really you don't. Not all front line workers are angels to be worshipped. There are some utterly lazy, incompetent people working the wards and departments, but the organisation is set up so they are unsackable.

Pot banging etc just got my back up.

However, no politician of any persuasion is going to suggest the much needed from-the-foundations rebuild. Thanks to our lovely tabloid media, it'd be seen the same way as bulldozing your parish church.

One more whinge- why do the media always think that a hospital is just staffed by doctors and nurses? I am neither, and now in year 24 of my clinical career.

 

[Hans]

I think there are many members of NHS staff who were not happy with the clapping and pot banging. There were, and are, many in the NHS who have just quietly got on with their jobs, for many vocational. There were many who relished the hero worship and being the centre of attraction.

I can understand your opinion (certainly wouldn't call it a whinge) about many (not just the media) seeing only doctors and nurses, I would say the backbone of the NHS is all the others.

 

[johnnychips]

@Hans I agree with most of your points, but I don’t think NHS workers got a good pay rise during the pandemic, if at all. Their workers may have felt valued by the genuine public support, but in the pocket… no.

 

[Hans]

@Hans I agree with most of your points, but I don’t think NHS workers got a good pay rise during the pandemic, if at all. Their workers may have felt valued by the genuine public support, but in the pocket… no.

I believe the pay rise was 3% backdated to spring 2021. I can imagine many NHS workers believe that is not good enough however considering many private business were bankrupted by the closing down of a country for many months, I think some public sector workers should accept that large payrises during such economic difficulties are just not acceptable or possible, irrespective of what unions may claim.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I believe the pay rise was 3% backdated to spring 2021. I can imagine many NHS workers believe that is not good enough however considering many private business were bankrupted by the closing down of a country for many months, I think some public sector workers should accept that large payrises during such economic difficulties are just not acceptable or possible, irrespective of what unions may claim.

I’m a public sector worker and I have received nothing, so I agree with the 3% is something but I do object to this “public sector get everything and the private sector don’t” narrative which is pedalled out by many on a regular basis

 

[Hans]

I’m a public sector worker and I have received nothing, so I agree with the 3% is something but I do object to this “public sector get everything and the private sector don’t” narrative which is pedalled out by many on a regular basis

I think your statement is very correct - the NHS seems to be prioritised above all others whether public or private, however there were many on the private side who never received a single penny of government help since Mar 2020, so there will always be a discord of understanding between public and private. I expect many on the private side would have preferred to still be in employment without a payrise.

 

[102 fan]

The street that my Mother lives on is getting work done by a utility provider. The letter recieved had what I expected, area concerned, dates and expected duration. I was surprised, however to read 'Due to the escalation of Covid 19'

Escalation ???

 

[ainsworth74]

he street that my Mother lives on is getting work done by a utility provider. The letter recieved had what I expected, area concerned, dates and expected duration. I was surprised, however to read 'Due to the escalation of Covid 19'

Escalation ???

Someone hasn't updated their template letter recently!

 

[43066]

there were many on the private side who never received a single penny of government help since Mar 2020, so there will always be a discord of understanding between public and private. I expect many on the private side would have preferred to still be in employment without a payrise.

Albeit it’s also true that many in the private sector have not only remained in employment but received double digit % pay rises (thinking especially those working in professional services firms, commercial law firms etc.). These people were also able to easily switch to working from home, so saving on commuting and other work related costs.

The private sector as a whole has also benefited massively from furlough, as this has enabled many people to keep their heads above water and continue consuming. Just because assistance wasn’t provided directly doesn’t mean it wasn’t beneficial.

 

[Hans]

Albeit it’s also true that many in the private sector have not only remained in employment but received double digit % pay rises (thinking especially those working in professional services firms, commercial law firms etc.). These people were also able to easily switch to working from home, so saving on commuting and other work related costs.

The private sector as a whole has also benefited massively from furlough, as this has enabled many people to keep their heads above water and continue consuming. Just because assistance wasn’t provided directly doesn’t mean it wasn’t beneficial.

I agree with your points other than your last sentence, those who did not receive any financial assistance I think will say they did not see any benefit from others doing so.

 

[43066]

I agree with your points other than your last sentence, those who did not receive any financial assistance I think will say they did not see any benefit from others doing so.

If you agree with the thrust of my post, you should agree with the last sentence!

The point I was making is that many industries have benefitted from furlough/financial assistance, despite not necessarily receiving it themselves. A good example would be the consumer financial services industry. Furlough has meant that people have been able to to keep making payments on mortgages/loans, so the industry has not suffered the level of defaults it might otherwise have done.

 

[Hans]

If you agree with the thrust of my post, you should agree with the last sentence!

The point I was making is that many industries have benefitted from furlough/financial assistance, despite not necessarily receiving it themselves. A good example would be the consumer financial services industry. Furlough has meant that people have been able to to keep making payments on mortgages/loans, so the industry has not suffered the level of defaults it might otherwise have done.

I think your meaning may be ambiguous - I do see both your points and will not disagree with your example of how some have benefited, however you must also see the point I am making that there were many indivduals and predominantly self employed businesses who did not receive any financial help at all. Having not received any financial help, the fact others did would not have been any benefit to them. The fact, many were financially far better off, as you mentioned no commuting costs etc, made the situation for those not in receipt of any help even worse.

The crux of the situation is the country should not have been shut down, therefore no furlough would have been needed and those who lost their jobs/businesses due to not receiving any help would most likely still be in employment.

 

[MikeWM]

Apparently the 'Covid alert level' (remember that?) has today been reduced from 'level 3' to 'level 2'. As it will never reach 'level 1' ('covid not present') I guess this is as good as it gets!

 

[Kite159]

Apparently the 'Covid alert level' (remember that?) has today been reduced from 'level 3' to 'level 2'. As it will never reach 'level 1' ('covid not present') I guess this is as good as it gets!

I wondered why "CovidisnotOver" was trending on twitter when I opened it up this evening.

 

[duncanp]

Apparently the 'Covid alert level' (remember that?) has today been reduced from 'level 3' to 'level 2'. As it will never reach 'level 1' ('covid not present') I guess this is as good as it gets!

Oh dear.

All the COVID bedwetters, locktivists and maskivists won't like that, will they?

And according to the COVID Bedwetter Daily Mail, the "..monkeypox crisis.." is over as well.

No doubt all the fearmongers will now turn their attention to inflation, with scary predictions of it going up to 22% and mass closures of pubs unless they charge £14 per pint.

 

[Ediswan]

Apparently the 'Covid alert level' (remember that?) has today been reduced from 'level 3' to 'level 2'. As it will never reach 'level 1' ('covid not present') I guess this is as good as it gets!

The definition of level 1 is "COVID-19 is present in the UK, but the number of cases and transmission is low".
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-covid-19-alert-level-methodology-an-overview

The alert levels are:

• level 1: COVID-19 is present in the UK, but the number of cases and transmission is low
• level 2: COVID-19 is in general circulation in the UK, but direct COVID-19 healthcare pressures are low and transmission is declining or stable
• level 3: COVID-19 is in general circulation in the UK
• level 4: COVID-19 is in general circulation in the UK; transmission is high and direct COVID-19 pressure on healthcare services is widespread and substantial or rising
• level 5: as level 4 and there is a material risk of healthcare services being directly overwhelmed by COVID-19

 

[MikeWM]

The definition of level 1 is "COVID-19 is present in the UK, but the number of cases and transmission is low".
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-covid-19-alert-level-methodology-an-overview

They've quietly changed that at some point then. Do an image search for 'UK Covid Alert Level' and you'll see lots of results showing level 1 *was* 'Covid-19 is not present in the UK'.

 

[Ediswan]

They've quietly changed that at some point then. Do an image search for 'UK Covid Alert Level' and you'll see lots of results showing level 1 *was* 'Covid-19 is not present in the UK'.

No. It is up to you to produce evidence that the definition was previously different.

 

[Bungle73]

No. It is up to you to produce evidence that the definition was previously different.

Covid: How does the alert level system work?

The rapid increase in Omicron cases in the UK has led to the alert level being raised.

www.bbc.co.uk

The government unveiled the system in May 2020.
There are five levels:

• Level five (red) - a "material risk of healthcare services being overwhelmed"
• Level four - a high or rising level of transmission
• Level three - the virus is in general circulation
• Level two - the number of cases and transmission are low
• Level one (green) - Covid-19 is no longer present in the UK

 

[DustyBin]

No. It is up to you to produce evidence that the definition was previously different.

It was. The evidence is very easily found online as @MikeWM said.

Edited to say thanks @Bungle73 for posting a link.

 

[kristiang85]

No. It is up to you to produce evidence that the definition was previously different.

It would have been quicker for you to google that than write that post, and as you can see pretty much every image confirms it...

uk covid alert level - Google Search

www.google.com

It was discussed at length here a while back that level 1 would be impossible, given SARS-COV-2 will become an endemic coronavirus in constant circulation, and it seems the government have finally recognised this.

 

[MikeWM]

Covid: How does the alert level system work?

The rapid increase in Omicron cases in the UK has led to the alert level being raised.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks for that.

Here's a screenshot from the original document that introduced the system (which can still be found at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/884760/Our_plan_to_rebuild_The_UK_Government_s_COVID-19_recovery_strategy.pdf)



So the BBC link supplied above suggests that this was still the case at the end of last year. I wonder when it changed? They certainly didn't make much of a fuss about it.

Basically it seems they've abolished the old level 1 and split the old level 2 into two. I'm not at all sure why they've bothered to do that, but maybe they just realised that the old level 1 was rather stupid.