Paddington to Bristol Parkway non stop

[andylikestrain]

Hi all
I remember being booked on a non stop Paddington to Bristol Parkway service in March 2020 and then Covid hit. There don’t appear to be any such services since however; does anyone know if this service is planned to start again?

Many thanks

 

[pdeaves]

Current thought is that restarting is highly unlikely.

 

[geoffk]

There's an earlier thread, now closed, on this general subject.

New GWR electric trains slower than the 1970s?

Two contrasting takes at the claim by RMT that the new 800s will be slower than when the HSTs were first introduced. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-45billion-train-service-slower-6586588...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

The more recent source explicitly stating these are finished is the track access application about GWR ceasing to run on the reliefs east of Maidenhead or Slough. It’s linked in a recent speculation thread about the Elizabeth line here:

Should Elizabeth line take over the Thames Valley branches and also Romford - Upminster branch?

Don't you think the inability to access West Ealing / Acton Main Line with a single change from intercity services an issue? I dont think it is the primary consideration in stopping patterns on the relief line, no, not to the detriment of other users. Ultimately, stopping patterns are a matter...

www.railforums.co.uk

Please note the line “This uses the overlay fast London - Bristol path which is therefore withdrawn;”

 

[andylikestrain]

Thanks all. That’s a shame, was looking forward to taking that trip at some point.

 

[Class 33]

I think it's a great great shame that these proper express services are very unlikely to ever return now. After all the fuss they made for months or years even about these new services cutting 12 minutes, 17 minutes(or however long it was) off Bristol-London journey times. Weren't these services originally intended to start back in 2016 or 2017? These services were finally introduced in December 2019 and they barely only lasted a few months before they were scrapped for good it seems! I knew that this damn Coronavirus and all those nuisance lockdowns and restrictions would mean these services were scrapped, but I only thought that would be temporary. I expected them to return from the May 2021 timetable. But no, it never happened! After all that fuss they made, and these services ran for just a few months!!

The introduction of these services brought services along the Great Western Mainline between London and Bristol, much more in line with express services along the East Coast Mainline and West Coast mainline where it is common that first stop out of London would be 100 or so miles down the line. This was long overdue in my opinion. This should have happened years ago! The new timetables incorporating these new express services were fascinating to look at, up to what it was before with just the same old same old Bristol Temple Meads-Bath-Chippenham-Swindon-Didcot Parkway(alternate services), Reading, and London Paddington stopping patterns.

I was delighted when the services were finally introduced. But only managed two journeys on them before they were scrapped. Them only running on Mondays-Fridays was a bit fiddly though, as meant I had to take days off work to be able to do so or travel literally straight after work. My first journey was on the 3rd January 2020 on the 1823 service from Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington. I did that journey especially to get a journey on these long awaited express services! After arrival at London I then got the coach back to Bristol! I then did another journey on the 4th March, on the 1725 service from Bristol. I also had another journey booked for the 29th March this time for a service in the other direction, on the 1825 service from London. Of course then, this darn Coronavirus and lockdown had started and so that journey never happened! And these express services have never been reimplemented since!

 

[geoffk]

Swindon is around the same distance from Paddington as Peterborough is from KX or Rugby from Euston and the GW main doesn't have local services further out than Didcot. Nowadays any time savings from speeding up trains would be exceeded by padding of the timetable approaching Paddington (no pun intended), slow approach to the platform and the time spent in the queue for the ticket gates.

 

[brad465]

Thanks all. That’s a shame, was looking forward to taking that trip at some point.

While not the same experience, GWR did release a full Driver's eye view of that service during the 1st lockdown:

Ironically if they were trying to promote the service they promoted something that now ceases to exist.

I was fortunate to be able to get it once in January 2020 returning on a business trip, but would have liked to get it more often.

 

[Dai Corner]

Interesting to read that the path has been withdrawn in favour of other services. Does that mean the Grand Union open access application is dead in the water?

 

[Watershed]

Interesting to read that the path has been withdrawn in favour of other services. Does that mean the Grand Union open access application is dead in the water?

It's not been withdrawn specifically for the Grand Union service (which, in any event, is currently rejected as things stand).

 

[The Planner]

It has been moved on the calendar of events into Dec 24 as a 5tpd Paddington to Camarthen service.

 

[D6975]

Swindon is around the same distance from Paddington as Peterborough is from KX or Rugby from Euston and the GW main doesn't have local services further out than Didcot. Nowadays any time savings from speeding up trains would be exceeded by padding of the timetable approaching Paddington (no pun intended), slow approach to the platform and the time spent in the queue for the ticket gates.

But long distance services don't stop at Rugby or Peterborough. Scottish services are typically first stop York on the ECML and Warrington on WCML (direct) services (ignoring any pu only stops)

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

But long distance services don't stop at Rugby or Peterborough. Scottish services are typically first stop York on the ECML and Warrington on WCML (direct) services (ignoring any pu only stops)

Yes, but Bristol isn’t as far as Scotland. A better comparison would be with the Birmingham services.

 

[Taunton]

Same has happened with Glasgow to Edinburgh, where electrification, which was meant to bring "far speedier services", means that it now takes longer from Glasgow to Edinburgh, stopping every 10 minutes or so, than the half-hourly "push-pull" express service with 2 x Class 27 did more than 50 years ago, started May 1971, with semaphore signalling in part!

The rot set in for the HST services from Paddington at privatisation, where the London-Didcot etc commuter operation was given to Thames Trains, including the substantial loco-hauled fast peak services. Immediately the long distance HST operator set about raiding this business for themselves, by stopping all the longer distance expresses at Reading, and eventually pretty much all at Didcot as well, plus even some HST calls at Slough that didn't used to be there. Essentially it was found that operating an outer-suburban style service gained more from the upper Thames Valley than it lost from longer distance passengers. There are of course some upsides. From time to time I do a day return trip from London to Swindon, which nowadays means no longer having to aim for specific trains- it is a turn up and go service. And if you are going to treat it like that, then overall, including station waiting time, the occasional express missed due to road delays getting there, etc, it can work out a bit faster.

 

[anthony263]

It's not been withdrawn specifically for the Grand Union service (which, in any event, is currently rejected as things stand).

Modified their latest application to run to Carmarthen from.the start using new rolling stock. I have noticed the latest responses from their consultation doesn't seem to be as hostile

 

[JonathanH]

The rot set in for the HST services from Paddington at privatisation, where the London-Didcot etc commuter operation was given to Thames Trains, including the substantial loco-hauled fast peak services. Immediately the long distance HST operator set about raiding this business for themselves, by stopping all the longer distance expresses at Reading, and eventually pretty much all at Didcot as well, plus even some HST calls at Slough that didn't used to be there. Essentially it was found that operating an outer-suburban style service gained more from the upper Thames Valley than it lost from longer distance passengers.

No, that happened before privatisation around 1991 at the point when Intercity were able to put an eighth coach into all of the HSTs.

The connectivity benefits of stopping trains at Reading and Didcot were significant. However, even now there are plenty of services that don't stop at Didcot. One of the reasons to stop at Didcot is connections from Oxford, not just London to Didcot passengers.

The problem with running fast to Bristol Parkway is now the connections are maintained and whether a train can actually be filled.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Still, it would be quite fun if there were at least one fast non-stop to BPW a day just to show it could be done!

GWR has effectively over the years become an extended outer-suburban railway - bit like the GN services to Cambridge/Peterborough. This fills the trains, of course. but it should be remembered that in the golden period in the 70s when the first HSTs were brought in, the express service was just 1 tph to each of Bristol and Swansea and I think a 2 hourly service on the Berks. and Hants. So there was lots of capacity for fast running....

 

[mrmartin]

Yes I travel often between PAD to CDF. I've asked a couple of guards and they've heard no plans to bring them back.

It seems so odd that so much fuss is being made in the East to get Ipswitch in 60 mins and Norwich in 90, instead of here.

Even if it was just one service a day in each direction it creates a good marketing point for the operator and the city regions themselves; and it seems eminently doable to me.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I hope this also means the end of the London–Oxford superfasts, which have absolutely trashed connectivity between Reading and the Cotswolds in the evening peak. Putting a Reading stop back in the 17.57 from Paddington might mean it wasn't carrying so much fresh air every day...

 

[Dai Corner]

Yes I travel often between PAD to CDF. I've asked a couple of guards and they've heard no plans to bring them back.

It seems so odd that so much fuss is being made in the East to get Ipswitch in 60 mins and Norwich in 90, instead of here.

Even if it was just one service a day in each direction it creates a good marketing point for the operator and the city regions themselves; and it seems eminently doable to me.

It was done every hour from the Dec 19 timetable change until the Covid lockdowns started.

 

[Kite159]

I hope this also means the end of the London–Oxford superfasts, which have absolutely trashed connectivity between Reading and the Cotswolds in the evening peak. Putting a Reading stop back in the 17.57 from Paddington might mean it wasn't carrying so much fresh air every day...

Agreed, removes some of the passengers on XC who have to board at Reading to alight at Oxford in order to change to that IET to carry on towards the Cotswolds.

Maybe have the stop at Reading as pick up only if they don't want London - Reading commuters to use it

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed, removes some of the passengers on XC who have to board at Reading to alight at Oxford in order to change to that IET to carry on towards the Cotswolds.

Maybe have the stop at Reading as pick up only if they don't want London - Reading commuters to use it

Agreed with that, I've often been put off doing a journey to the Thames Valley by the need to join XC Reading to Oxford then join my train of choice to Worcester and beyond. If it was just me, on an adventure without one of my cycles, I'd not mind as much but the odds of me going there without being on a cycling adventure are very low. Having to join a potentially very busy XC then alight in Oxford puts me off somewhat. If I was simply out on a red pen fest, then I'd endure the change more willingly.

The Superfasts looked like they would be incredibly good fun, I never got to sample one myself. I had plans to, but it just never happened before the dreaded c-word arrived and changed the world. Even if it was just a select few services a day, clearly advertised as Superfast services when there are slower alternatives available, then I genuinely think they'd be attractive. First stop Bristol Parkway on a Swansea service (or even the Camarthen service?) would be good on even just one service in each direction at peak time.

There is no doubt in my mind there'd be the demand for it, but it would seem there's no appetite for it by those with the power to launch it.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

It was done every hour from the Dec 19 timetable change until the Covid lockdowns started.

It was never even nearly every hour. That was the long-term plan (it may have even been half hourly), but it didn't get to more than a handful a day before Covid started.

 

[Graham H]

Still, it would be quite fun if there were at least one fast non-stop to BPW a day just to show it could be done!

GWR has effectively over the years become an extended outer-suburban railway - bit like the GN services to Cambridge/Peterborough. This fills the trains, of course. but it should be remembered that in the golden period in the 70s when the first HSTs were brought in, the express service was just 1 tph to each of Bristol and Swansea and I think a 2 hourly service on the Berks. and Hants. So there was lots of capacity for fast running....

Yes I used the line back then and neither of the 1tph Bristol/Swansea trains stopped at Didcot. There was an additional hourly train that did stop at Didcot (and Slough ?) which alternated between South Wales and Bristol. Going west from Oxford could be a nightmare as tickets were only valid via Didcot so a stopper to there usually, wait for the next Swindon bound hourly service and then if you were on a Bristol train but wanted South Wales you had another change at Swindon and of course same if you picked a S Wales one at Didcot and wanted Bristol which given all were just 1tph would result in a very lengthy trip time wise and shows how London focussed things were back then.

 

[irish_rail]

Superfasts only really make sense on proper long haul journeys (ie London to Scotland or the South west). A few trains a day stopping Padd, Reading Plymouth and then stations in Cornwall would be very very well used. It would be transformational in that it could potentially lead to journey times of under 3 hours of London to Plymouth.
I can't help but feel superfasts to Bristol is a little pointless as its a fairly quick journey on a "stopper" anyway!

 

[joncombe]

Superfasts only really make sense on proper long haul journeys (ie London to Scotland or the South west). A few trains a day stopping Padd, Reading Plymouth and then stations in Cornwall would be very very well used. It would be transformational in that it could potentially lead to journey times of under 3 hours of London to Plymouth.
I can't help but feel superfasts to Bristol is a little pointless as its a fairly quick journey on a "stopper" anyway!

I can remember when the station building at Plymouth used to have large signage advertising London in 3 hours. It was certainly there in the late 1990s before the service was slowed down so much.

 

[JonathanH]

It was certainly there in the late 1990s before the service was slowed down so much.

Is 3 hours 4 minutes or 3 hours 10 minutes really 'slowed down so much'?

Is Bristol in 93-100 minutes too slow?

 

[Falcon1200]

GWR has effectively over the years become an extended outer-suburban railway

That really started with the introduction of the HST service by BR, allowing commuting to London from as far out as Swindon.

Yes I used the line back then and neither of the 1tph Bristol/Swansea trains stopped at Didcot. There was an additional hourly train that did stop at Didcot (and Slough ?) which alternated between South Wales and Bristol.

IIRC that was the full 1976 HST service, hourly expresses to Swansea and Bristol with hourly alternate Bristols or Cardiffs which did indeed call at Slough.

 

[irish_rail]

Is 3 hours 4 minutes or 3 hours 10 minutes really 'slowed down so much'?

Is Bristol in 93-100 minutes too slow?

Its no wonder investment is so lacking in this part of the world with that attitude. No real journey improvement since the 1980s, hardly a ringing endorsement.

Under 3 hours Plymouth to London should be achieved on several trains a day in my view, if only to attempt to sell the city and wider south west to the world a little better as more than just somewhere people come on holiday.

 

[The Planner]

Is 3 hours 4 minutes or 3 hours 10 minutes really 'slowed down so much'?

Is Bristol in 93-100 minutes too slow?

There is a psychological element to it, 2 hr 59 whilst only 5 minutes quicker than your example would make a difference. I have mentioned before that XC prefer to rapidly get between hubs and have a longer dwell as that is perceived better than being pathed out and going slower as that makes people think something is delaying them. I don't disagree that there are diminishing returns and I find it odd that people quote 1970 something journey times, just how quick should the journey be over time? If A-B is 1 hour now, should it be 55 minutes in 10 years time, 20 years time or even quicker?