December 2022 Timetable Changes

[Acton1991]

Saw at my local station that the Elizabeth line timetable changed in December. Does anyone know the details? I can't see a difference if I am honest!

 

[infobleep]

I noticed this evening that the 17:46 London Victoria to Littlehampton service now stops additionally at Gatwick Airport.

Makes sense as it follows a stopping service so has enough to stop at additional stations. When the train in front is delayed or canceled and not running ahead of it, this train can get into Haywards Heath 5 minutes early.

As it was today the fast line through Three Bridgrs was closed so all services ran through the slow line. The driver said this. There wasn't anything online about it.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I noticed this evening that the 17:46 London Victoria to Littlehampton service now stops additionally at Gatwick Airport.

Makes sense as it follows a stopping service so has enough to stop at additional stations. When the train in front is delayed or canceled and not running ahead of it, this train can get into Haywards Heath 5 minutes early.

As it was today the fast line through Three Bridgrs was closed so all services ran through the slow line. The driver said this. There wasn't anything online about it.

I didn't realise there were any services that still ran fast through Gatwick. A sensible decision to make it call, seeing how busy many other Southern services are through there.

 

[AWK]

Apologies if this has already been covered - I can't spot anything!

From the December timetable changes the daytime workings on the Penistone line (Sheffield - Huddersfield) were, I understood, to be worked by the 3-car 150s moved over from the West, and indeed they did venture out there for the first few days of operation.

However, so far this week the line has been back in the hands of the 2-car 150s - has an issue arisen that has led to the removal of the 3-cars?

 

[eastwestdivide]

RTT shows 150001 and 150003 both on Leeds/Sheffield via Moorthorpe services at the moment, 005 worked Leeds to Neville Hill around midnight with -277, and the others nowhere to be found on RTT. No idea why. Noticed another 3-car on a Moorthorpe service the other day too.

 

[Llandudno]

Apologies if this has already been covered - I can't spot anything!

From the December timetable changes the daytime workings on the Penistone line (Sheffield - Huddersfield) were, I understood, to be worked by the 3-car 150s moved over from the West, and indeed they did venture out there for the first few days of operation.

However, so far this week the line has been back in the hands of the 2-car 150s - has an issue arisen that has led to the removal of the 3-cars?

Are some the intermediate station platforms long enough for 3 car trains?

 

[cle]

I didn't realise there were any services that still ran fast through Gatwick. A sensible decision to make it call, seeing how busy many other Southern services are through there.

I didn't know that either. Everything should call at Gatwick - which is a logical first step in trying to evolve (kill) GatEx in the medium term, and standardize a high frequency, turn up and go Southern service. Which it already is, but an additional 2-4tph would spread demand out even more. Also with East Croydon-Victoria too.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I didn't know that either. Everything should call at Gatwick - which is a logical first step in trying to evolve (kill) GatEx in the medium term, and standardize a high frequency, turn up and go Southern service. Which it already is, but an additional 2-4tph would spread demand out even more. Also with East Croydon-Victoria too.

If only they would call the GX at Clapham!

 

[cle]

Ideally they could recalibrate the timetable when redone (which I think is happening in the next few years) - with everything that way out of Victoria calling at CJ and EC before Gatwick - including the former-Express services - get rid of their clockface thing, open the dedicated platforms at Victoria up for more tph... etc....

I think you'd have about 8-10tph in that standard pattern.

 

[Bikeman78]

I didn't know that either. Everything should call at Gatwick

Since the former Brighton fast trains were abolished in favour of Gatwick Express running to Brighton, almost everything stops there. There were some peak trains that ran non-stop from East Croydon to Three Bridges or Haywards Heath. Some even stopped at Horley on the down fast and then skipped Gatwick. Not sure if any do now.

 

[Some guy]

Does anybody know the reason why no Avanti services are calling at Sandwell and Dudley?

 

[Jimini]

Does anybody know the reason why no Avanti services are calling at Sandwell and Dudley?

They rarely make it that far anyway at the moment

(Good question: I'd idly wondered that myself these past few days.)

 

[Horizon22]

Saw at my local station that the Elizabeth line timetable changed in December. Does anyone know the details? I can't see a difference if I am honest!

Few slightly later trains and tiny amendments but nothing major - that happened twice this year already!

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anybody know the reason why no Avanti services are calling at Sandwell and Dudley?

Random guess, if they need additional dispatch staff for Avanti services only, and with the current action short of a strike some staff will not be available, therefore dispatch staff have been prioritised to more important stations in the area that need dispatch staff.

 

[Man_with_beard]

Why have Transpennine express cancelled all their trains on today from Cleethorpes to Sheffield? This is the second day I'm trying to book tickets to do Xmas shopping in Sheffield and meet friends and I'm always faced with "cancelled" under each train I want to book with. I don't recall strike action taking place this week so what's their excuse as I'm losing patience with the rail network because of strikes, cancellations & excuses.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why have Transpennine express cancelled all their trains on today from Cleethorpes to Sheffield? This is the second day I'm trying to book tickets to do Xmas shopping in Sheffield and meet friends and I'm always faced with "cancelled" under each train I want to book with. I don't recall strike action taking place this week so what's their excuse as I'm losing patience with the rail network because of strikes, cancellations & excuses.

Sounds to me like the usual TPE problem of not being able to run a reliable service exacerbated by the overtime ban.

 

[Greybeard33]

Why have Transpennine express cancelled all their trains on today from Cleethorpes to Sheffield? This is the second day I'm trying to book tickets to do Xmas shopping in Sheffield and meet friends and I'm always faced with "cancelled" under each train I want to book with. I don't recall strike action taking place this week so what's their excuse as I'm losing patience with the rail network because of strikes, cancellations & excuses.

See this thread:

Transpennine woes and a moan...

That experience is typical of stories I hear in Sheffield. When the service was reilable it was worth paying for. Even before Covid it was flawed. At least on South Pennine there are rail alternatives. TPE will need to prove they can provide a reliable service for months before they'll get...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Killingworth]

What with timetable changes and industrial actions we're getting a railway that the ordinary user has no choice but to avoid.

3 months ago users could commute the 4 miles from Dore into Sheffield by train taking about 7 minutes at 7.57, 8.04, 8.24 or 8.28, then 9.58. Pre-Covid increasing numbers were doing so. Tomorrow it seems there's just the 7.57 and then the 9.58. 8.04 TPE cancelled (it ran to time today, stopped, but didn't pick up). Northern 8.24 now retimed to 8.58 but cancelled. EMR 8.28 cancelled (it's always late).

In this Christmas week few will be bothered, there are buses taking about 25 minutes (normally nearer 35) for those who are. But the railway seems to have a collective death wish.

 

[Starmill]

In this Christmas week few will be bothered, there are buses taking about 25 minutes (normally nearer 35) for those who are. But the railway seems to have a collective death wish.

Certainly the current just over three week period is a write-off.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

There is now a Monday to Thursday 0:33 London Waterloo to Guildford service calling at Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, Woking and Guildford. It departs Clapham Junction at 0:44. Previously the last fast service was at 23:32 Monday to Friday.

It seems very odd not to stop that at Surbiton, of course I would say that but it's always busy and this would go some way towards making up for the loss of the (years ago) 0030ish and 0105 from Waterloo

 

[D6130]

It seems very odd not to stop that at Surbiton, of course I would say that but it's always busy and this would go some way towards making up for the loss of the (years ago) 0030ish and 0105 from Waterloo

That may be to allow for fairly frequent engineering works diversions via Chertsey.

 

[infobleep]

It seems very odd not to stop that at Surbiton, of course I would say that but it's always busy and this would go some way towards making up for the loss of the (years ago) 0030ish and 0105 from Waterloo

There is still a train around 0:30. Just that it stops everywhere. It gets into Woking before the Guildford train.

 

[30907]

There is still a train around 0:30. Just that it stops everywhere. It gets into Woking before the Guildford train.

0009 in the timetable.
The 0033 doesn't always stop at Woking, either - see w/c 16 Jan when it goes via the New Line.

 

[mangyiscute]

I still think it's a mistake to break the connection between the Avanti services from Glasgow/Edinburgh/Blackpool going via Birmingham onto the Manchester to reading trains, as this is always a very well used connection, and now that cross country is still operating it's shambolic covid timetables it's an extra hour wait. Strangely, on Saturdays the 1828 service from Stafford to Bournemouth does wait for the Avanti service, permitting the change to be done, without either train losing time on it's full journey, so I don't understand why this couldn't have been done all of the time (the rest of the cross countries leave Stafford at xx:21 while the avantis arrive at xx:22 with a couple mins of pathing performance between Crewe and Stafford)

 

[The Planner]

I still think it's a mistake to break the connection between the Avanti services from Glasgow/Edinburgh/Blackpool going via Birmingham onto the Manchester to reading trains, as this is always a very well used connection, and now that cross country is still operating it's shambolic covid timetables it's an extra hour wait. Strangely, on Saturdays the 1828 service from Stafford to Bournemouth does wait for the Avanti service, permitting the change to be done, without either train losing time on it's full journey, so I don't understand why this couldn't have been done all of the time (the rest of the cross countries leave Stafford at xx:21 while the avantis arrive at xx:22 with a couple mins of pathing performance between Crewe and Stafford)

The Scotlands via Birmingham only started calling at Stafford from this timetable, and you would still need a 5 minute connection. Only one of the minutes in the Avanti approaching Stafford can be moved.

 

[mangyiscute]

The Scotlands via Birmingham only started calling at Stafford from this timetable, and you would still need a 5 minute connection. Only one of the minutes in the Avanti approaching Stafford can be moved.

But why have the cross country's changed from leaving Stafford at xx21 rather than the previous xx28 which would then permit the connection?

 

[dk1]

But why have the cross country's changed from leaving Stafford at xx21 rather than the previous xx28 which would then permit the connection?

Is it for operational purposes at Piccadilly? The xx:25 Cross Country departure seems to depart to allow the next xx:29 arrival into the same platform & thus runs earlier throughout.

 

[jfollows]

Is it for operational purposes at Piccadilly? The xx:25 Cross Country departure seems to depart to allow the next xx:29 arrival into the same platform & thus runs earlier throughout.

I don't know the answer, but it does appear to allow the Cardiff services to depart at xx.30 instead of a mixture of xx.31 and xx.32 departure times, which in practice mean little but make the service look a little more regular I guess.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I didn't know that either. Everything should call at Gatwick - which is a logical first step in trying to evolve (kill) GatEx in the medium term, and standardize a high frequency, turn up and go Southern service. Which it already is, but an additional 2-4tph would spread demand out even more. Also with East Croydon-Victoria too.

Its only a couple of trains a day that don't stop at Gatwick. Not 2-4 an hour

 

[td97]

There is a similar quirk at Bolton where at some times of the day (typically peak am), a connection is advertised between the xx17 arrival from Clitheroe (to Manchester Victoria) onto the xx22 departure to Manchester Airport (5 minute minimum connection time). However, later on in the day, the Manchester Airport departs at xx21 so therefore no official connection exists.
The xx21 has 3.5 minutes of pathing + performance allowance at Bolton.
This connection always existed in the previous timetable.