Delay Repay entitlement to be cut?

[TUC]

The Telegraph is claiming that the government is considering reducing Delay Repay entitlement https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/18/refunds-late-cancelled-trains-may-cut/

Refunds for late or cancelled trains may be cut​

The minimum threshold for ‘Delay Repay’ compensation may be raised to half an hour from 15 minutes, according to Government sources

Long-suffering rail commuters could be hit by proposals to make ‘Delay Repay’ compensation less generous for late-running trains, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Government has discussed raising the minimum delay threshold for repayments from 15 minutes to half an hour, The Telegraph understands.
Delay Repay is a nationwide scheme under which commuters can apply for compensation if they experience a delay in getting to their destination because of a cancelled or late-running service.
The amount of compensation depends on which train company a passenger is travelling with, the ticket they have bought and the length of their delay.
Train companies have different compensation schemes, with most, but not all, operating a minimum threshold of 15 minutes.

However, there have been discussions within Whitehall of increasing this to half an hour, Government sources have indicated.

Senior rail industry sources confirmed that plans to increase the threshold have long been mooted.

But if ministers decide to press ahead with such a move it would be hugely controversial. Passengers have had to put up with miserable commuting conditions over the last year, with journeys disrupted by rolling strike action since June.

The disruption continued last week, with RMT members across a number of train companies staging walkouts on Saturday and Thursday. Further strikes are planned on March 30 and April 1.

On strike days, season ticket holders have been able to claim compensation for the value of one day’s travel.

The latest official statistics show the lowest proportion of trains arriving within 15 minutes of their planned schedules since records began.

In the third quarter of 2022-23, train cancellation rates soared to their highest ever level, with 4.5 per cent of services cancelled.

Delay compensation claims meanwhile increased by one-third between July and October 2018 and July and October 2022, from 0.71 delay claims per planned train to 0.94.

The amount of money paid out by train companies to passengers has swung wildly in recent years as commuting patterns were upended by the pandemic. Figures going up to 2021-22 show that compensation in England and Wales peaked at £89,407,000 in 2019-20, before collapsing in 2020-21 to £6,384,000, and then bouncing back to £39,707,000 in 2021-22.

Louise Haigh, Labour’s Shadow Transport Secretary, criticised the Government over the proposals.

“Shambolic services are failing passengers and instead of demanding better, the Conservatives want them to pay the price,” she told The Telegraph.

“The message this sends is clear - under the Conservatives, our failing rail services are here to stay.”

She added: “The next Labour government will put passengers back at the heart of our railways, and build the infrastructure fit for the century ahead, unlocking jobs and growth."

The reduction in the generosity of Delay Repay could be counterbalanced by changes to make it more straightforward for customers to submit claims.

Centralising the process for compensation so that passengers have a single website and a “one-click” process to make a claim are among the options under review.

The changes are being considered as part of wider reforms to rail fares to rationalise a sprawling system that has left Britain with 55 million ticket types.

A DfT spokesman said the department did not comment on "speculation".

 

[D365]

After all the time we spent getting it down to 15 minutes in the first place.

"One-click process" - I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Ken H]

What do countries in the EU do?

 

[miklcct]

After all the time we spent getting it down to 15 minutes in the first place.

"One-click process" - I'll believe it when I see it.

That will be a shame. If the barrier is 30 minutes the scheme is basically useless at all, at least at 15 minutes I can still get some pennies back for the stress caused by train delays and cancellations.

 

[Watershed]

Yet more penny wise, pound foolish nonsense from the DfT. Yes, 15 minute Delay Repay is generous compared to many other railways, but setting a threshold of 30 minutes means that commuters can claim nothing for frequent delays or cancellations. Effectively it normalises poor performance.

If the argument is that the is the only way of "affording" to make it easier to claim, that is surely an admission that the current system pays mere lip service to compensating people.

This really is the thin edge of the wedge; the DfT has proven yet again that will stop at nothing in its quest to cut the railway to the bone. What next, removing the bit of the NRCoT that guarantees you'll be given alternative transport if stranded?

 

[Wallsendmag]

"One-click process" - I'll believe it when I see it.

Book a LNER service on the LNER site and have a delay , you'l see it then

 

[AlterEgo]

What do countries in the EU do?

Britain has one of the most generous compensation schemes in Europe. SNCF is 30 minutes, as does SBB. The *processing* of delay repay claims is a large expense which is probably driving a lot of the government’s thinking here.

 

[Haywain]

That will be a shame. If the barrier is 30 minutes the scheme is basically useless at all, at least at 15 minutes I can still get some pennies back for the stress caused by train delays and cancellations.

It's not all about you. Plenty of people make much longer journeys than you do (and don’t get stressed by delays of 15 minutes).

 

[kkong]

Some operators are on 30 minutes minimum delay already, e.g. ScotRail.

ScotRail's claim process is very good and quick to settle in my experience.

 

[danm14]

What do countries in the EU do?

In Ireland you can only get Irish Rail vouchers - which, to the best of my knowledge, can only be spent at staffed stations on full price walk up tickets.

Nothing is given for delays of up to one hour, half the cost of a single ticket or one quarter of the cost of a return ticket is given for delays of between one and two hours, and the full cost of a single ticket or half the cost of a return ticket is given for delays over two hours.

For cross-border services, if the amount of vouchers due is more than €8, you can choose between the full amount in vouchers and half the amount in cash (their standard policy is insufficient under EU laws for cross-border services, which don't apply to domestic services)

 

[CyrusWuff]

What do countries in the EU do?

Under the Rail Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulations (EC 1371/2007) they're not required to give any compensation where the delay is less than an hour.

Even then, if you don't abandon the journey (in which case you're entitled to a full refund) the compensation is only 25% of the ticket price for a delay of 60 to 119 minutes, and 50% for a delay of 120 minutes or more. For one leg of a return ticket, the price of the ticket is halved when calculating the compensation.

That said, I suspect that - like GB rail - several countries are more generous than the PRO minimums.

 

[JonathanH]

It would be helpful if the 30 minute threshold was moved to 29 minutes if 15 minute delay repay is removed.

It is a common issue that people miss out on delay repay when a 30 minute frequency train is cancelled and the next one runs 'right time'.

 

[D365]

Book a LNER service on the LNER site and have a delay , you'l see it then

I used to benefit from an "automatic delay repay" facility on the EMR system, but this seems to have stopped working.

 

[Haywain]

Mixed feelngs about this. It's disappointing that the solution to an expensive DR system is to move the thresholds rather than doing something about the causes of level of claims. On the brighter side, a national threshold for claims would be a welcome simplification of the overly complex system we currently have (and yes, a standardised 15 minutes would also do that).

 

[43096]

The *processing* of delay repay claims is a large expense which is probably driving a lot of the government’s thinking here.

In which case the solution ought to be to sort performance out so fewer claims need to be made, so that cost of providing the delay repay service goes down.

 

[yorkie]

Automatic delay repay is a farce and fundamentally flawed; it rarely works for me and it can't cope with a change of train.

15 minute delay repay should be abolished really; it must be totally uneconomical to operate as the cost from all parties in time must be more than the actual compensation, in most cases!

I don't claim for very short or cheap journeys which are 15 mins late as it just isn't worth it, for example I had a 7 pound ticket and was delayed 15 mins each way. I'd need to put in 2 claims for each leg and each would get me less than £1. Totally not worth my time!

 

[AlterEgo]

Automatic delay repay is a farce and fundamentally flawed; it rarely works for me and it can't cope with a change of train.

15 minute delay repay should be abolished really; it must be totally uneconomical to operate as the cost from all parties in time must be more than the actual compensation, in most cases!

I don't claim for very short or cheap journeys which are 15 mins late as it just isn't worth it, for example I had a 7 pound ticket and was delayed 15 mins each way. I'd need to put in 2 claims for each leg and each would get me less than £1. Totally not worth my time!

I agree with this. I’d much rather have the existing penalties for 30-120 minutes and serious penalty (perhaps twice the field price) for very severe delays above two hours. A bit more like EC261 in that respect.

 

[miklcct]

I agree with this. I’d much rather have the existing penalties for 30-120 minutes and serious penalty (perhaps twice the field price) for very severe delays above two hours. A bit more like EC261 in that respect.

If it is EC261 the compensation should be irrelevant to the ticket price, which I think it's the better option.

For example, £1.50 in compensation for every full 15 minutes of delay, irrespective of the ticket price, which means that even Freedom Pass holders can claim compensation if the train they travel on is delayed.

 

[Hadders]

I’ve mixed views to be honest. 15 minutes means there are lots of low value claims but there does need to be an incentive to get the TOCs to run their services on time.

One thing that definitely does need sorting is when the next service arrives early meaning you miss out on a DR payment (or get downgraded). That really isn’t on.

 

[danm14]

If it is EC261 the compensation should be irrelevant to the ticket price, which I think it's the better option.

For example, £1.50 in compensation for every full 15 minutes of delay, irrespective of the ticket price, which means that even Freedom Pass holders can claim compensation if the train they travel on is delayed.

Would you be happy with £9 compensation for a one-and-a-half hour delay on a £200 ticket from one end of the country to the other?

 

[miklcct]

Would you be happy with £9 compensation for a one-and-a-half hour delay on a £200 ticket from one end of the country to the other?

Yes, I'm happy with that, no matter the ticket across the country is £10 or £200. If the delay across the country is 6 hours, I will have £36 back.

What I don't want is that, if I travel for one stop on a two-hourly rural line with a £2 ticket, I only get £2 back if I'm delayed by two hours given the lack of alternative transport in deep rural areas.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I’ve mixed views to be honest. 15 minutes means there are lots of low value claims but there does need to be an incentive to get the TOCs to run their services on time.

One thing that definitely does need sorting is when the next service arrives early meaning you miss out on a DR payment (or get downgraded). That really isn’t on.

I don't think delay repay has any bearing on whether a TOC tries to run trains on time or not.

 

[D365]

... and serious penalty (perhaps twice the field price) for very severe delays above two hours.

I'm not sure how this would be implemented, as I don't believe one can be 'refunded' for more than 100% of the original cost of a transaction.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think delay repay has any bearing on whether a TOC tries to run trains on time or not.

You’re mis-understanding.

Consider a route that has a train every 30 minutes and takes an hour to make a journey. A train gets cancelled so you take the next one half an hour later. That means a 30 minute delay so you claim a 30 minute delay.

BUT the train you take arrives one minute early at the destination meaning the delay is only 29 minutes so your claim gets downgraded to a 15 minute delay (or nothing if 15 minute delay repay gets scrapped).

 

[nickswift99]

I'm not sure how this would be implemented, as I don't believe one can be 'refunded' for more than 100% of the original cost of a transaction.

Many TOCs offer a variety of payment mechanisms, specifically included payment cards/bank accounts that were not used in the original transaction.

It is a "refund" in that the customer gets some money from the TOC, but it is no a refund in the sense of a credit against an original transaction to the same card.

 

[Watershed]

Many TOCs offer a variety of payment mechanisms, specifically included payment cards/bank accounts that were not used in the original transaction.

It is a "refund" in that the customer gets some money from the TOC, but it is no a refund in the sense of a credit against an original transaction to the same card.

It's not a refund, despite the common refrain; it's liquidated damages.

 

[BrianW]

I don't think delay repay has any bearing on whether a TOC tries to run trains on time or not.

Has a study been done of 'value' of Delay-Repay?
eg number of claims;
- value of claims?
- amount paid out
- in total/ per 15/30/60/+ mins?
- costs of implementation
- effects on reliabity etc??
'Best/ worst' performances?

I can see that government is interested in 'savings'.

 

[Haywain]

Has a study been done of 'value' of Delay-Repay?

- effects on reliabity etc??

DR will have no real impact on reliability. It is no more than a method for compensating passengers (or penalising train companies, depending on your point of view) for delays. Operational decisions to mitigate late running and cancellations are made with regard to PPM (Public Performance Measure) and the effect of delays on other operators and other services of the train operator that are impacted by the delay through either staff or rolling stock not being available at the right time and place.

 

[bramling]

The Telegraph is claiming that the government is considering reducing Delay Repay entitlement https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/18/refunds-late-cancelled-trains-may-cut/

I’m all for this.

15 mins is too generous, and the cost of administration is also grossly disproportionate.

I would *much* prefer to see these payments cut over having services or train lengths reduced.

The industry shouldn’t need to be motivated by the prospect of payments to deliver its timetable reliably, and in any case I doubt there’s that much of a link.

 

[Haywain]

I would *much* prefer to see these payments cut over having services or train lengths reduced.

I seriously doubt that such a choice exists - we're more likely to get both.