Negative perception of booking offices and clerks

[cambran]

I can see that for some customers, that would be a useful service. But it would help if he'd accept that I know what I want, which is the ticket I've asked for, and just sell that to me, as a TVM would.

I have had the opposite experience at Leamington, The TVM won't sell me a ticket to Walsall without specifying times and refusing some trains because it thinks reservations are compulsory, while the clerk is happy to sell the ticket without any questions. She even joked 'We're not so nosey'

 

[plugwash]

One thing with ticket office staff is if you are already an expert, then just say what you want

Unfortunately that doesn't always work,

A few years before Covid I went to Stockport ticket office and asked for an off peak return to Cambridge route any permitted. You wouldn't think that was a complex thing to ask for, a ticket to a major city with the most flexible routing option available. I was instead issued a ticket to "Cambridge BUS MK". They staff were insisting that was the only "any permitted" ticket to Cambridge.

After explicilty asking if the ticket was valid via London they sold me an excess fixing their screwup, Fortunately I wasn't in a huge hurry. I've no idea how the guard would have responded if I had got on the train with it.

After that experiance I switched to buying my tickets to Cambridge from the TVM. After Avanti brought in pseudo-compulsory reservations, I switched to buying them online a few days before travel and collecting them from a TVM.

 

[skyhigh]

Unless you are on relief duties your entire time will be at one single potentially small station so its likely you will never see half the things you even learned at the school.

Which is understandable, but if you're not using your full range of duties you should take some time to make sure you keep on top of the rarer stuff. If nothing else, if you can't remember how to do something pick up the phone and try to get help from someone who does - don't just bat it back to the passenger to deal with.

Most ticket offices are excellent, a tiny minority of them are poor. I remember (back before you could buy Priv tickets online) I went to a ticket office and asked for the exact split tickets I wanted. The bloke behind the desk refused to sell me split tickets as "they're not valid with Priv, and anyway you're getting enough of a discount". Human nature is just that you remember the poor experiences more.

 

[Bow Fell]

One of the massive problems for ticket office staff, is that most Station Managers aren’t retail trained, so if you asked them to sell a ticket they can’t! So, if there as a training issue, how do you address it?

You can have a CMS system but if the assessments are rubbish and the person assessing doesn’t know how to the job, it’s no wonder there’s a issue!

And that’s from someone having experience in the booking office.

On the flip side, with some of the attitude and contempt people show on here for booking offices, @Geeves had it spot on, treat people how you would like to be treated, that goes for passengers too. A little patience goes a long way.

I expect I would have been called “incompetent” on this forum by some having struggled to issue a sleeper ticket for the first time after not doing so since training and taking a while and having to phone another station. But I had a go at least!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly, I feel that the concept (especially at smaller commuter stations) of a station maneger would work well. To have a single person to serve passengers needs at busier times, and to make their stations look the best they can(e.g. litter cleaning, assisting community groups who may want to help with the stations upkeep, ect.) at quieter times. This position would give more pride in their stations to the Managers themselves, and provide better value for money for both the railway staff and Passengers.

Merseyrail staff do do this to be fair, though how often they do it varies, and now Penalty Fares apply they have to stay in the booking office most of the time.

 

[voyagerdude220]

One of the massive problems for ticket office staff, is that most Station Managers aren’t retail trained, so if you asked them to sell a ticket they can’t! So, if there as a training issue, how do you address it?

As a member of ticket office staff myself, I feel this is an excellent point.

I recently asked colleagues on social media about a ticket issue I felt that onboard staff had got rather wrong. Whilst the vast majority of colleagues agreed with my point of view and equally couldn't understand why the staff had been so heavy handed, the odd one or two colleagues thought I was purely wanting to slag off fellow colleagues, because I could have simply asked my line manager for advice. But knowing that my line manager isn't ticket/revenue trained, I didn't think there was much point in doing so.

Also from personal experience of working with colleagues- many often don't have much knowledge of the UK Rail network compared with myself. Which is unsurprising seeing I'm a rail enthusiast, hence my presence on this website. Others have good intentions but are wrong. e.g. Someone I know refuses to offer split tickets where the journey involves a change of train incase the customer misses the connection. (despite me reiterating several times it's irrelevant)

Also from personal experience the tickets I occasionally struggle with are usually unusual ones which we don't sell much. e.g. Rail and sail.

Sadly before I got my job on the Railway, I experienced bad customer service at nearby ticket offices, with staff refusing to sell me Advance First singles which were perfectly valid (and I could see them online) just because you had to specify a different route which was much slower. So I fully understand why some members may be sceptical about using Ticket Offices.

The flipside to this, is that I sometimes have customers asking me to sell them a cheap split ticket they've been offered online- but the website doesn't expand to tell you what the combination of tickets is, so it would literally be a guessing game trying to work it out, whereas the customer sees my inability to suss it out as me being incompetent.

 

[Steve4031]

The British rail staff at a centrally located booking office in London were extremely helpful when I planned a rail pass in 1988. I had purchased one of those huge timetables for 7 pounds 50 and meticulously planned my trip. On day one of my trip I had planned to do a circle trip out from London and a series of trains along the English Channel. I mistakenly believed that this routing would provide a scenic view of the channel. The older gentleman asked me questions about what I was intending to do. When he discovered I was searching for scenic routes he provided a series of alternatives. Then booked all of my IC125 reservations and IC reservations for my entire trip. He was very helpful and knowledgeable. This was a big difference from what I experienced in the United States when I would frequently discover that I knew more about the operation of Amtrak than some of its reservation agents.

I am sure these positions have been deemphasized with the advent of online ticketing using computers and apps.

 

[43066]

A mixed bag, tending towards “good” for me. Albeit too many instances of my former local office in particular being shut at the times I wanted to use it (during normal office hours).

However good and helpful the staff may be, the harsh reality is that the traditional ticket office concept is increasingly irrelevant to the modern railway. Where I live hardly anyone uses the ticket office, because the vast majority either hold season tickets (as I do) or tap in and out. That is a London-centric viewpoint, but that will only roll out further as e ticketing is adopted ever more widely. There is no point resisting this, and the role will need to evolve, probably along the lines we saw on LU a few years ago.

I think there's a value in travel centre style outlets in larger stations, but having someone sat behind a glass window for a few hours a day at commuter stations to serve a trade that is no longer there for them is a waste of time. Give em a tablet and a printer and the ability to make their station a nicer place.

Yes absolutely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps. But in my experience they often won't use the computer in front of them to check things, they just know. The muppet at City Thameslink who wouldn't sell me the Off Peak to Bedford was so convinced he was right that he even wrote down that he was refusing me on a piece of paper and stamped it, rather than spend five seconds using the journey planner in front of him to check whether the ticket might just have been valid.

Unfortunately GTR's customer services are as good as he was, I sent them said piece of paper and asked what on earth he was playing at, requesting a refund of the difference (which was only about a quid, but it was more the principle) and they never replied.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I use St Albans City for ticket and reservation purposes from time to time , but often send people there for ticketing and similar requests. Not as busy now of course , (plenty of TVM's and on line facilties) but the staff are excellent and in the words of the old BR rulebook , "prompt , civil and obliging" - add welcoming to that.

 

[davidknibb]

The ladies at Canley (Coventry) are super and as helpful as can be. And they look after the station gardens and plant out all sorts of colourful flowers.

 

[MrJeeves]

Never had an issue with staff at Brighton -- always happy to deal with even complex issues!

 

[142blue]

To improve matters there should be retail briefings, ongoing training, support and training in the digital realm but above all else there needs to be knowledge checks and tests undertaken to ensure you are doing the job correctly and within the rules

If you get it wrong then you go in for additional support training to build your knowledge

 

[Starmill]

The problem is that if you use them regularly you're likely to be given something wrong sooner or later, and then the train company won't necccesarily be willing to correct the mistake after the fact. People are likely to remember mistakes made that aren't in their favour, especially if they're not corrected, even if they've only happened rarely.

Compare that approach to nearly any other chain business, where the customer service attitude is if there's any possibility that the company has got something wrong, to try to resolve a problem to the customer's satisfaction there and then if possible, or at least after the fact otherwise.

If a restaurant served food that was cold when it should have been hot even 1% of the time, but wouldn't make the food again if the customer pointed out that it wasn't hot enough, or sometimes the staff claimed that the food was supposed to be cold even though it wasn't, then it would fail pretty quickly even though it was technically doing everything right 99% of the time. That's just the way it is when you're dealing with the public.

 

[STINT47]

I think the average user of this forum is going to have a reasonable or in a lot of cases excellent knowledge of the ticketing system and knows what they want.

We are therefore more likely to ask for more complicated tickets like rovers, sleeper berths and CIV tickets. I have personal experience of struggling to buy all of these types of tickets over the years.

Forum users also tend to know the ticket restrictions. Im sorry to say that I have been refused sale of tickets on various occasions, which should have been issued because the clerk has got peak times and or permitted routes wrong.

In my experiences clerks fall into three categories. Those that know the job inside out and are great, those that don't know the answer but find out, who are also great and finally those who get it wrong and will not accept it snd or they are plain lazy and won't help you

Sadly the last category of clerk tends to stick in the memory hence the bad views they sometimes get on this forum

 

[BrummieBobby]

As a wider point regarding station staff, I have spoken to several members of station staff when dealing with incidents or requests (Re-platformng etc.) as a signaller. Safety critical staff (dispatchers etc.) are usually fine, but I have to say that the standard of communication from most non-safety critical station staff is absolutely dreadful.

Genuine question, but are non-safety critical station staff given communications training?

 

[142blue]

As a wider point regarding station staff, I have spoken to several members of station staff when dealing with incidents or requests (Re-platformng etc.) as a signaller. Safety critical staff (dispatchers etc.) are usually fine, but I have to say that the standard of communication from most non-safety critical station staff is absolutely dreadful.

Genuine question, but are non-safety critical station staff given communications training?

I had some, which is which box etc but retail and gate staff don't really contact the boxes unless it was an emergency as it's unlikely they would be on platforms unless doing a pass assist

Definitely could do with training on radio comms

 

[Oxfordblues]

I remember one booking clerk at Preston in the 1970s who was abrupt, rude and dismissive of anyone he saw as awkward. An elderly lady once asked the fare to Leicester and he unhelpfully told her to "rebook at Nuneaton". I won't name him!

 

[NorwichRailFan]

I remember one booking clerk at Preston in the 1970s who was abrupt, rude and dismissive of anyone he saw as awkward. An elderly lady once asked the fare to Leicester and he unhelpfully told her to "rebook at Nuneaton". I won't name him!

Go on, name and shame.

 

[seaviewer]

I have noticed a slightly negative perception on this forum towards ticket offices and some of the staff; not from everyone but quite a few posters over the years haven't had much positive to say; and there doesn't seem to be that much sympathy towards the future of them from these parts, compared with some customers who have been very much vocally in support of the role remaining as it is.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I am interested to hear people's reasons for their views and any experiences they have? Do you think the job is 'money for old rope' or is that playing it down too much? I do work in one myself but I have resigned myself to the attitude of 'what will be will be' as far as the future of the role goes.

To answer the original question: All Southern staff I have dealt with have been helpful and knowledgeable although I was once given a super off peak ticket when I wanted an "ordinary" off-peak
But NR at Gatwick sold me an off peak return to Didcot, unaware (?) they cannot be used outbound in evening peak

 

[cin88]

As a wider point regarding station staff, I have spoken to several members of station staff when dealing with incidents or requests (Re-platformng etc.) as a signaller. Safety critical staff (dispatchers etc.) are usually fine, but I have to say that the standard of communication from most non-safety critical station staff is absolutely dreadful.

Genuine question, but are non-safety critical station staff given communications training?

I was given safety critical communications training as an announcer because i'd regularly be in contact with the shift signalling manager at Manchester Piccadilly. Most non-safety critical staff (which I was included in) only got a "this is how to make an emergency call to the signaller" 10 minute briefing on the customer service induction course though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To answer the original question: All Southern staff I have dealt with have been helpful and knowledgeable although I was once given a super off peak ticket when I wanted an "ordinary" off-peak
But NR at Gatwick sold me an off peak return to Didcot, unaware (?) they cannot be used outbound in evening peak

One of the places that didn't know how to do a route excess properly was in Southernland, I think it was East Grinstead. In this case GTR customer services did refund the incorrect amount paid.

 

[David Goddard]

Ticket office staff at Reading are very good and I try to use them where possible when I want a walk up ticket on the day (such as when I go to London for the day). They are also great at issuing rangers and Rovers for different areas of the country with ease (granted I normally go armed with the rover code) for which i have read a number of people have had issues at other stations.
For longer trips I end up booking online but only because i want to obtain reservations to ensure a seat.

Other local stations are also pretty good, such as Wokingham (SWR).

 

[northernchris]

My experience of ticket offices varies significantly. Wakefield Westgate have some excellent staff, they were able to excess a ticket I'd bought in error from a TVM without fuss. My worst experience was at Manchester Victoria last year, initially there was no one behind the counter despite 2 windows being open and it was a good 2-3 minutes until someone appeared. The clerk then struggled to issue a GM Wayfarer, and I was instead sold a Derbyshire Wayfarer. Fortunately I'd realised before I left the window as the price didn't seem right and in the end had to bring up the details of the ticket on my phone to help her. The transaction must have taken 10 minutes for what was a fairly simple ticket. When buying a GM Wayfarer I now use Oxford Road as they are much more efficient and knowledgeable.

 

[Hadders]

I had good service at ticket offices but I've also had some awful experiences. The old LNER Stevenage Travel Centre was hard to beat, such a shame it closed last year.

Most staff are excellent but where staff are not as good as they should be it's generally because the training isn't up to scratch and needs improving.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My experience of ticket offices varies significantly. Wakefield Westgate have some excellent staff, they were able to excess a ticket I'd bought in error from a TVM without fuss. My worst experience was at Manchester Victoria last year, initially there was no one behind the counter despite 2 windows being open and it was a good 2-3 minutes until someone appeared. The clerk then struggled to issue a GM Wayfarer, and I was instead sold a Derbyshire Wayfarer. Fortunately I'd realised before I left the window as the price didn't seem right and in the end had to bring up the details of the ticket on my phone to help her. The transaction must have taken 10 minutes for what was a fairly simple ticket. When buying a GM Wayfarer I now use Oxford Road as they are much more efficient and knowledgeable.

That really is appalling, it's like a London ticket office not knowing how to issue a Travelcard.

 

[BJames]

I agree with much of what has been said. I've had excellent experiences at Plymouth and Liskeard for example, with the lady in the Liskeard ticket office booking us replacement bus transport for the Looe branch to save us an hour wait (I gather the small size of this station meant it was a bit more of a dual role). London Bridge has always been good for us as well.

London Overground is definitely a real mixed bag. A few years ago the person on duty at Bush Hill Park had no idea how to add a railcard to Oyster and told me to do it online (for those not aware - you cannot do this). At Enfield Town, just one stop down the line, the office helpfully sorted this for me immediately. I agree with sentiments above that ticket offices at these stations are past the point of necessity now.

 

[Krokodil]

You also mentioned "superb training": that made me laugh. @Yorkie continually refers to the training issue when it comes to retail staff (which includes some traincrew of course) and he is absolutely right to do so. In practice neither the TOCs nor the DfT are particularly interested in the quality of training, and even less in quality control of subsequent staff performance. Effectively it's left up to individuals to decide how committed they want to be to learning all the tricks of the trade.

What really doesn't help is that everything has changed drastically over the last few years but most TOCs seem to regard refresher training as a wasteful extravagance. Staff are largely left to their own devices, training-wise.

No offense but I almost always end up using the Ticket Machines because they are normally easier to get the ticket I want

You've never tried using one of Northern's TVMs then?

 

[NorwichRailFan]

What really doesn't help is that everything has changed drastically over the last few years but most TOCs seem to regard refresher training as a wasteful extravagance. Staff are largely left to their own devices, training-wise.

You've never tried using one of Northern's TVMs then?

Nah, GA

 

[AlbertBeale]

My experience of ticket offices is mixed, though I always use them in preference to a machine (if they exist).

If I'm somewhere unfamiliar, I risk not noticing if a machine isn't giving me an option I don't already know about. Recently, for example, I tried to buy a ticket from a machine at Chester, but my card wouldn't work; it was only then that I realised there was a ticket office tucked away that I hadn't noticed, and went there instead. It was lucky the machine wouldn't sell me my ticket because there was a local ticket I knew nothing about (and hadn't seen on the machine - perhaps because you had to know it existed in order to find it?) which was cheaper. I hadn't asked for it at the ticket office, and was surprised to be given a ticket which had a different name and a lower price which would do the same job (and more, in fact). That's the sort of experience that keeps me preferring ticket offices.