Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[computerSaysNo]

Daytime Bus Allocations Since Service Change Mon-Fri (No Express except LC/ECB)!

This doesn't mean every allocation of the route, this means the frequent/most used ones

Number	Main Allocation(s)
Service 1	Volvo 7900H
Service 2	Volvo 7900H
Service 3	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 4	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 5	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 7	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 8	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 9	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 10	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 11	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 12	Volvo 7900H, Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 14	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 15	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 16	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 19	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 21	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 22	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 23	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 24	Enviro 400 EV, Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 25	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 26	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 29	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 30	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 31	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 33	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 34	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 35	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 36	Volvo 7900H
Service 37	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 38	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 43	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 44	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 45	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 46	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 47	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 47B	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 48	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 49	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 100	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 106	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service 113	Any ECB Decker
Service 124	Any ECB Decker
Service 139	Any ECB Decker
Service 140	Any ECB Decker
Service 141	Any ECB Decker
Service 200	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 400	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service X5	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X6	Any ECB Decker
Service X7	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X18	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X28	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)

What's your source?
As in, is this official/internal, or from observations?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

What's your source?
As in, is this official/internal, or from observations?

From observations, not official.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Daytime Bus Allocations Since Service Change Mon-Fri (No Express except LC/ECB)!

This doesn't mean every allocation of the route, this means the frequent/most used ones.

I’d have some discrepancies about the 8/9. The E400mmc’s have typically only been allocated on Saturdays or on one weekday diagram as a last resort, but shouldn’t be planned. On weekdays the allocation should be just Gemini2 B9TL’s.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Daytime Bus Allocations Since Service Change Mon-Fri (No Express except LC/ECB)!

This doesn't mean every allocation of the route, this means the frequent/most used ones

Number	Main Allocation(s)
Service 1	Volvo 7900H
Service 2	Volvo 7900H
Service 3	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 4	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 5	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 7	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 8	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 9	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 10	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 11	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 12	Volvo 7900H, Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 14	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 15	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 16	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 19	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 21	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 22	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 23	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 24	Enviro 400 EV, Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 25	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 26	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 29	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 30	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 31	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 33	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 34	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 35	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 36	Volvo 7900H
Service 37	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 38	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 43	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 44	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 45	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 46	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 47	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 47B	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 48	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 49	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 100	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 106	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service 113	Any ECB Decker
Service 124	Any ECB Decker
Service 139	Any ECB Decker
Service 140	Any ECB Decker
Service 141	Any ECB Decker
Service 200	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 400	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service X5	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X6	Any ECB Decker
Service X7	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X18	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X28	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)

the MMCs on the 8/9 are weekends only with the 11 plate B9s on weekdays

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I’d have some discrepancies about the 8/9. The E400mmc’s have typically only been allocated on Saturdays or on one weekday diagram as a last resort, but shouldn’t be planned. On weekdays the allocation should be just Gemini2 B9TL’s.

the MMCs on the 8/9 are weekends only with the 11 plate B9s on weekdays

I was thinking about that but most weekdays had an MMC on of some sort.

Those could be unplanned coincidences though.

I have edited it now.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I’d have some discrepancies about the 8/9. The E400mmc’s have typically only been allocated on Saturdays or on one weekday diagram as a last resort, but shouldn’t be planned. On weekdays the allocation should be just Gemini2 B9TL’s.

the MMCs on the 8/9 are weekends only with the 11 plate B9s on weekdays

Why is this the case? Presumably the same number of B9s and B5s are available on Mon-Fri as on Saturdays? So why change the allocation?

Also separate question: do Edinburgh Tours drivers ever drive normal (non-Tours) services? I ask as I saw a McGill's bus where the driver was in their Tours uniform, and wondered if Lothian ever did similar.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Why is this the case? Presumably the same number of B9s and B5s are available on Mon-Fri as on Saturdays? So why change the allocation?

Also separate question: do Edinburgh Tours drivers ever drive normal (non-Tours) services? I ask as I saw a McGill's bus where the driver was in their Tours uniform, and wondered if Lothian ever did similar.

Yes, they do. They are just Marine drivers really. Marine drivers also do tours (well because the tours operate from Marine.) I am unsure if Marine drivers get 2 uniforms (impractical) or if you can apply to strictly be a tour driver?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Why is this the case? Presumably the same number of B9s and B5s are available on Mon-Fri as on Saturdays? So why change the allocation?

Lower PVR on Saturdays without peak time express routes and some routes on lower frequencies

 

[CN04NRJ]

Yes, they do. They are just Marine drivers really. Marine drivers also do tours (well because the tours operate from Marine.) I am unsure if Marine drivers get 2 uniforms (impractical) or if you can apply to strictly be a tour driver?

The tour drivers are on separate contracts and pay scales, and are employed as tour drivers (same as ECB/LCB/LMC - a separate company). They also do the Kings Building's - Bristo Place uni shuttle.

During the summer I think Lothian drivers can go on secondment to the tours, and it's not uncommon for Lothian drivers to cover tour shifts. I don't think the reverse happens, if so it's rare.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Yes, they do. They are just Marine drivers really. Marine drivers also do tours (well because the tours operate from Marine.) I am unsure if Marine drivers get 2 uniforms (impractical) or if you can apply to strictly be a tour driver?

During the winter timetable you see tour drivers on East Coast Buses / Lothian Country / City (all depots) routes often. I know the driver shortage is part of the reason for it happening this past year. They do apply to be a tour driver specifically though.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I

During the winter timetable you see tour drivers on East Coast Buses / Lothian Country / City (all depots) routes often. I know the driver shortage is part of the reason for it happening this past year. They do apply to be a tour driver specifically though.

I am aware that they do go to all depots during the winter timetable, but if they are to do Lothian Shifts during the summer timetable it would most likely be for Marine as that's the depot that they work at really. It's very rare for tour drivers to do Lothian shifts during the summer.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Daytime Bus Allocations Since Service Change Mon-Fri (No Express except LC/ECB)!

This doesn't mean every allocation of the route, this means the frequent/most used ones

Number	Main Allocation(s)
Service 1	Volvo 7900H
Service 2	Volvo 7900H
Service 3	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 4	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 5	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 7	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 8	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 9	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 10	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 11	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 12	Volvo 7900H, Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 14	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 15	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 16	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 19	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 21	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 22	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 23	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 24	Enviro 400 EV, Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 25	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 26	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 29	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 30	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 31	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 33	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 34	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 35	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 36	Volvo 7900H
Service 37	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 38	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 43	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 44	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 45	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 46	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 47	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 47B	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 48	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 49	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 100	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 106	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service 113	Any ECB Decker
Service 124	Any ECB Decker
Service 139	Any ECB Decker
Service 140	Any ECB Decker
Service 141	Any ECB Decker
Service 200	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 400	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service X5	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X6	Any ECB Decker
Service X7	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X18	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X28	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)

I'm sure since the 106 route has changed they have thrown on a random ECB double on that run, QMU - Haddington of course!

 

[Jordan Adam]

I was on 686 on the 8 yesterday and the heat upstairs was unbearable, It didn't help that the vents upstairs at the front were blowing hot air combined with the lack of opening windows at the front half of the upper deck. The seats are also not that comfortable which is strange as i've been on plenty other buses with the same Kiel seats and always found them to be comfortable.

 

[stevenedin]

I was on 686 on the 8 yesterday and the heat upstairs was unbearable, It didn't help that the vents upstairs at the front were blowing hot air combined with the lack of opening windows at the front half of the upper deck. The seats are also not that comfortable which is strange as i've been on plenty other buses with the same Kiel seats and always found them to be comfortable.

Not the same bus but I was on 42 last week and the 2 seats at the back on the right had no leg room which was weird as other buses of this type have plenty leg room. There was also no opening windows. These buses are torture to travel in.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Not the same bus but I was on 42 last week and the 2 seats at the back on the right had no leg room which was weird as other buses of this type have plenty leg room. There was also no opening windows. These buses are torture to travel in.

Only 1-10 have opening windows. Leg room at the back isn't the best but it's not bad either.

 

[stevenedin]

Only 1-10 have opening windows. Leg room at the back isn't the best but it's not bad either.

It was only that bus that seemed to be bad for leg room. I’ve been on the 11-50 batch before and keg room has been fine in the same seats. It may have been put back incorrectly after the interior refurbishment.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Only 1-10 have opening windows. Leg room at the back isn't the best but it's not bad either.

Is the air con in 11-50 supposed to be functional?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Is the air con in 11-50 supposed to be functional?

Yes, and most of the times I've been on them, it's been cool inside.

 

[stevenedin]

The more I think about it, 1051-1062 (12 buses) must be replacing 841-850 & 935-936 (12 buses).

It would make the oldest buses 13 years instead of 15 years old.

Any news on 926-934 being sold or are they still in storage at Marine?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The more I think about it, 1051-1062 (12 buses) must be replacing 841-850 & 935-936 (12 buses).

It would make the oldest buses 13 years instead of 15 years old.

Any news on 926-934 being sold or are they still in storage at Marine?

I was always under the impression that it would be a 12 for 12 swap. 926-934 I think are all still at Marine, with most (if not all) in the line at the seafront.

935 is currently at Ferrymill being repaired but it might do well to return to service now. That will likely also stop any chance of some of the remaining B9TL’s Gemini2’s being repainted just now as previously it was only 1 bus at a time. If there’s 1 less bus then you would think it wouldn’t work. Of course they’re getting a bunch of newer stock anyway which will hopefully allow the B9TL’s (and thus the fleet) to be finished by the end of the year once they enter service. How that happens will depend if it’s going to happen in batches, or just random. The former is usually the normal way of doing this.

 

[stevenedin]

I was always under the impression that it would be a 12 for 12 swap. 926-934 I think are all still at Marine, with most (if not all) in the line at the seafront.

935 is currently at Ferrymill being repaired but it might do well to return to service now. That will likely also stop any chance of some of the remaining B9TL’s Gemini2’s being repainted just now as previously it was only 1 bus at a time. If there’s 1 less bus then you would think it wouldn’t work. Of course they’re getting a bunch of newer stock anyway which will hopefully allow the B9TL’s (and thus the fleet) to be finished by the end of the year once they enter service. How that happens will depend if it’s going to happen in batches, or just random. The former is usually the normal way of doing this.

I can see them leaving the rest of the 2010 batch of B9TLs (937-959) in the livery that they are currently in if they are withdrawing them later this year.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I can see them leaving the rest of the 2010 batch of B9TLs (937-950) in the livery that they are currently in if they are withdrawing them later this year.

I’m not sure how you plan to withdraw these but I myself think it’s probably still another couple of years away anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if something like the current Skylink’s end up being their replacements as they’re looking tired now and need a refurbishment. I guess 496-497 could also be used to make up the numbers. 15 for 14 does work. Skylink itself will probably have to get cascaded stock as it looks like it’s the end for the B5TL with the electric BZL as its replacement I don’t think that sort of technology is ready for routes like that just yet. 1128-1140 is 13 buses right enough but I still doubt XLB’s on the Skylinks is really needed, not ahead of a city route. 635-650 I think are a better choice. 635-647 could be branded and fitted fully with an Airport spec interior while 648-650 could have the Airport spec interior but stay in madder and white. Something that is a common problem at the minute is throwing out a city spec bus on the Skylink’s when inevitably more than 2 buses are unavailable.

This I believe would also rationalise ECB’s fleet down to pretty much just Gemini3 and Eclipse3 bodywork work - minus 199 of course. Maybe 199 could be that 15th bus to go? I think that’s probably unlikely.

 

[JKP]

I've been in Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Eskbank and Danderhall today on routes 31, 46, 48 and 140 and I've noticed that none of the bus stops have had their timetables updated.

I was in the Penicuik area a few weeks ago and many timetable cases were smashed or in poor repair. Pathhead is the same. Infrastructure is owned by Midlothian Council who I understand no longer have a public transport officer who looked after such matters.

On Saturday, I was in East Lothian and a number of cases there were also infilled and again damaged.

 

[stevenedin]

I’m not sure how you plan to withdraw these but I myself think it’s probably still another couple of years away anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if something like the current Skylink’s end up being their replacements as they’re looking tired now and need a refurbishment. I guess 496-497 could also be used to make up the numbers. 15 for 14 does work. Skylink itself will probably have to get cascaded stock as it looks like it’s the end for the B5TL with the electric BZL as its replacement I don’t think that sort of technology is ready for routes like that just yet. 1128-1140 is 13 buses right enough but I still doubt XLB’s on the Skylinks is really needed, not ahead of a city route. 635-650 I think are a better choice. 635-647 could be branded and fitted fully with an Airport spec interior while 648-650 could have the Airport spec interior but stay in madder and white. Something that is a common problem at the minute is throwing out a city spec bus on the Skylink’s when inevitably more than 2 buses are unavailable.

This I believe would also rationalise ECB’s fleet down to pretty much just Gemini3 and Eclipse3 bodywork work - minus 199 of course. Maybe 199 could be that 15th bus to go? I think that’s probably unlikely.

I think that they should stop branding Airlink and Skylink separately and just brand them all as Airlink and use the same buses. They don’t need to be XLBs as they coped fine before with standard Lothian length buses.

1128-1140 could eventually be rebranded and refitted to standard Lothian spec to help with busier routes.

All of this would of course mean that new or replacement buses would be needed for both Airlink and Skylink.

 

[ScotRail158725]

They don’t need to be XLBs as they coped fine before with standard Lothian length buses.

I think maybe you need to have a closer look through the windows then… Majority of 100s are full to the brim

 

[Bus9120UK]

I think that they should stop branding Airlink and Skylink separately and just brand them all as Airlink and use the same buses. They don’t need to be XLBs as they coped fine before with standard Lothian length buses.

You're having a laugh! I've been on 6am Airlink buses completely packed. They were no better with the Gemini 3s before.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I think that they should stop branding Airlink and Skylink separately and just brand them all as Airlink and use the same buses. They don’t need to be XLBs as they coped fine before with standard Lothian length buses.

1128-1140 could eventually be rebranded and refitted to standard Lothian spec to help with busier routes.

All of this would of course mean that new or replacement buses would be needed for both Airlink and Skylink.

The only place that this would work is in Cloud Cuckoo Land!!!

On a serious note, Airlink is still packed at a 5 minute frequency, never mind every 10 minutes (current normal frequency) with Gemini 3's or BZL's! Every 5 minutes has happened recently because of extra buses being added, working out to around that frequency and with special events, etc. I suppose special events should be taken lightly due to it quite literally being a special event.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The only place that this would work is in Cloud Cuckoo Land!!!

On a serious note, Airlink is still packed at a 5 minute frequency, never mind every 10 minutes (current normal frequency) with Gemini 3's or BZL's! Every 5 minutes has happened recently because of extra buses being added, working out to around that frequency and with special events, etc. I suppose special events should be taken lightly due to it quite literally being a special event.

What's the maximum frequency that can be operated with the current number of Airlink B8Ls? Considering several have been converted back to standard Lothian spec.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I think it's around 80-90 people.

 

[Vectron383]

Do we know if the airport-bound trams are equally busy? If not it might be worth raising awareness or making ticket prices equal for both so travellers are making the decision on capacity and not price or anything else.