Goldfish62
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Indeed. For reliability the Elizabeth line is halfway down the table.
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Elizabeth line reliability issues
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Noticeably those figures are before the somewhat botched software upgrade in Easter, Nuneham viaduct collapsing (impacting freight volumes Reading - Acton) and the new more intensive timetable.
Doesn’t the figures suggest that the trains that do run are generally on-time and as opposed to delaying trains, Elizabeth line cancels them outright.
That would be quite normal behaviour for an intensive metro operator.
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That would have been slightly the case before the botched update of ELR400 but even then they barely would make cancellations unless it was down to not having a driver to take the specfic train thru its final patterns, that they needed to turn that train around to step up the service for recovery etc.
Indeed when it runs well it's rapid and like clockwork which is why there is such a stark contrast when it doesn't
28th May 2023
Part suspension due to a broken down train. Currently working the Rangoon.
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Chaos this morning with the core section basically out of use and both PAD and LST struggling for platform space, not really much information about what is running and what isn’t either, along with very few indications as to where they are departing
iphone76
Member
This may all be my fault as I commented yesterday afternoon that I'd had 4 issue free shifts on the trot and the system appears to have settled down after the post Easter issues. And then I've walked into this today.
Apparently issues with axle counters.
At Pad main line at 1039. Liz line staff saying no trains which is not that correct as gwr departure board shows a liz stopper from plat 11 to Heathrow, 10.24 delayed, awaiting to see if it goes. Also Liz staff not drawing attention to reading stoppers which serve STL etc. On move at 1042.
Jamiescott1
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As usual during liz line disruption, the GWR app is listing Lots of departures to DBRNPKS from Paddington
I do wonder whether the new timetable feature of some Shenfield trains running through to Heathrow introduces a level of extra unreliability, especially at times of disruption, with Shenfield crews potentially stuck at the opposite end of the line and running out of hours. The previous arrangement with what were effectively two independent, interleaved services seemed just more straightforward to recover from at times of stress. Given the current timetable, the most effective way from the Shenfield line to the GWML and Heathrow is anyway to take the first train, and change in the core, as the train PA announces.
Services starting to resume now but will expect the resulting return will be slightly hampered by displaced stock and train staff. Good to be moving tho nonetheless
Haha at work the same was thought and I was thinking this is too good to be true so come today wasn't expecting that level of disruption however.
Haha at work the same was thought and I was thinking this is too good to be true so come today wasn't expecting that level of disruption however.
It seems the Elizabeth line is starting to get a bit of reputation for delays, not helped by completely falling over again this morning. It's really not acceptable for such a new, and supposedly well tested piece of infrastructure to be operating like this. Have TfL issued any statement to why reliability is becoming such an issue and what the plan is to improve it?
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
You could say that about any line. The real issue is more how the operators (train and infrastructure) manage incidents with seemingly just resorting to do not travel alerts being seen as acceptable way to deal with anything now as to contemplate any form of degraded working is seen almost like committing a crime. I would suggest majority of passengers would accept odd delay if they felt that at least operator was doing its best to get them from A to B rather then just passing the problem back to them.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I think this route would always be a challenge the Great Eastern / Great Western mainlines both had their fair share of problems. As we see with Thameslink these services are great when they work, but problems grow quickly if you get an issue. Let us say your have a problem at Ealing Broadway, people that travelled from Liverpool St - Shenfield are not going to be happy it is impacting them. I think the Elizabeth line will probably get impacted quicker them Thameslink as most the routes are more concentrated. That said I am not sure about the turnnaound points on Elizabeth. Thameslink does use Finsbury Park / Kentish town to turn trains. Not sure if the Elizabeth has as many places to turn trains.
Recovering a service is not just about turning trains - of which the EL is amply supplied (Paddington/Westbourne Park, OOC depot, Heathrow, Maidenhead, Liv St, Ilford Depot, Chadwell Heath, Gidea Park, plus the termini and some other options on running lines).
More important is the crewing arrangements. EL is in a much better place than TL in this respect, as it is a much more compact operation with higher frequency services on almost all routes. Most EL drivers sign every route, which is far from the case on TL. Therefore whilst driver displacement does happen, it is much easier to recover from and the standby drivers can drop in where required more easily too.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Thanks, that is a good point. I had heard before on Thameslink disruption say at Finsbury Park, the drivers often don‘t sign into Kentish town to get the train out the way. So everyone signing everywhere will certainly get the service going again. A high intensity service soon collapses with even the smallest incident.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Interesting. As a wider point, I wonder if that shows a small argument in favour of trying to keep routes simple and frequent (like the Elizabeth line) rather trying to run a train-from-everywhere-to-everywhere model that Thameslink seems to have: If your routes are simple, then it's more likely that all drivers on a route will have enough route knowledge to be able to run any timetabled diagram on the route, which means that in times of disruption you don't have the problem of trying to match the trains you now want to run with which drivers who are currently available at the correct location can actually drive them.
Thameslink actually has a simple route structure, at least from a driver route knowledge perspective, in the sense that each depot drives one main route; it’s the opposite of an everywhere to everywhere model (even if that’s how the overall network appears).
Unfortunately this comes at the price of a little resilience. The only way around it would be reducing the scope of the network to make it more compact (as it used to be with the Bedford - Brighton core + Sutton loops and Sevenoaks tacked on) or employing more drivers and giving them larger route cards. Neither are likely to be palatable to the DfT.
AlbertBeale
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DBRNPKS?
Jamiescott1
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Yep. Don't know where it is but listed as a destination during times of disruption
Thursday 8th at 0620 - currently at West Drayton, heavy delays Westbound, incoherent information screens and "Apologies for any inconvenience caused" being trotted out by an android voice (what a nonsense statement that is). Total and utter mess!
Wandering Shee
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Surely that will be Fell-on-the-Keyboard.
greatkingrat
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Are you sure it's not WBRNPKS, which is the code for Westbourne Park Sidings?
Has to be as I've no clue where a DBRNPKS is. WBRNPKS as you say makes sense from Paddington which is the short for Westbourne Prk Sidings
More problems with departure boards. This tweet shows 64 minutes for the next train instead of the 4 minutes it actually is. Getting quite ridiculous now this isn't fixed properly still.
That has been reported if its the one at Woolwich but its still awaiting attending to by the contractors. Its the only departure board on that PSD however doing so because of the incorrect time set which is 1hr ahead of the rest of the boards.
17:00 BST
Minor one but trains will be skipping TCR due to an emergency evacuation
17:20 BST
Reopened
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Yesterday was a rare infrastructure issue in the central section which is normally very reliable. It took a long time to resolve, longer than you might expect a similar issue to be dealt with on other NR routes which might point to lack of experience?
Other issues have been infrastructure on NR sections or issues with the train fleet causing a blockage.
There’s not many get out of jail free cards. Unfortunately the Crossrail project is officially over, lots of the knowledgable project team have left despite the fact there’s still known issues to iron out.
redreni
Member
Departure boards not working at all this morning at Abbey Wood. Back to the "guess which train is leaving first" system. This is starting to get irritating now.
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