Train driving suitable for a mum of 2

[Hannahkri95]

Hi all, I finally have an interview date with southeastern after 10 months of checking my emails everyday! Anyway now I’m getting cold feet wondering if I can really do it. For context, I am a mum of 2 young kids (1 is in school the other is only 2). My partner is very hands on and works from home in the afternoon so does the school drop offs… in terms of working pattern can anyone let me know what it’s like at southeastern? Would I miss out on loads of my kids?

 

[Firedriver]

Why don’t you just give it a go, and if it doesn’t work leave

 

[ComUtoR]

Would I miss out on loads of my kids?

Shift work kinda sucks. It does have some avantages and you need to remember that there is a balance.

With my kids, I will always remember being one of the only Dads in the playground. It's all Mums and Grandparents. I've missed just as many sports days, as I have attended some, and the same with many many family and friends events.

Kids, especially young ones, are quite resilient and learn to adapt when you might need a few hours extra kip or can't go to the beach because you are working that Saturday.

I've gained more than I've lost.

It's not really a Southeastern thing. It's more a Railway/Shiftwork thing.

 

[Economist]

There's plenty of women with young children driving trains on the railway, though you in terms of lifestyle you need to consider the following:

During the early stages of training you'll be spending approx. 8am-4pm in a classroom (the exact times may vary though these hours are typical), when you get home you'll be spending your time revising the topics you've learned about so you can pass various written and practical examinations.

During the latter stages of training, you'll be following the shift pattern of your Driver Instructor, the earliest time you'll start on early shift is shortly after 3am, the latest time you'll finish a late shift is around 2am, you'll need to make sure you have adequate sleep.

Once you are qualified, you may be able to swap to a permanent early or late shift by swapping with a colleague who wants the opposite shift to yourself, this is not guaranteed.

If you want to leave after qualifying, you may well be expected to repay some of the costs of your training, Southeastern will provide you with more details of this.

 

[Chrysalis]

Hi all, I finally have an interview date with southeastern after 10 months of checking my emails everyday! Anyway now I’m getting cold feet wondering if I can really do it. For context, I am a mum of 2 young kids (1 is in school the other is only 2). My partner is very hands on and works from home in the afternoon so does the school drop offs… in terms of working pattern can anyone let me know what it’s like at southeastern? Would I miss out on loads of my kids?

I don't have any insight into the shift pattern but would still like to share my opinions

I think a lot of women hold themselves back over fear of what will happen to their children if they work more, or if they would work shifts. I think this is a real shame, because providing the father hasn't left, you're supposed to be a team. In your case, the father sounds very much present and like he can do drop offs/pick ups, so my advice is to just go for it. If you pass every step in the recruitment process you have done amazingly well, and it would be a shame to turn down your chance of being a train driver. You might lose time with your children, but as someone said earlier in the thread, you might also gain from it. In my opinion, you would also set a good example for your children. You'd be following your dreams. I think especially if you have daughters this might be meaningful. Good luck!

 

[bunnahabhain]

Go for it. You are entitled to request flexible working accomodation from day one these days, if that would help you with childcare then apply for it. My advice is to join ASLEF from day one and speak to the reps if the shift pattern doesn't work to help you.

You *can* do this and the railway *will* work with you to make your career successful.

 

[ComUtoR]

Go for it. You are entitled to request flexible working accomodation from day one these days, if that would help you with childcare then apply for it

It's not guaranteed and very easily declined.

 

[irish_rail]

Being on the railway with kids does allow if anything more time with them id say due to the fact train drivers get more time off work than your average Monday to Friday 9 til 5 job. As long as you are prepared to work all shifts and won't quickly demand a personal link that shafts your colleagues who then get stuck with all the unsociable stuff, then as others have said , give it a try, you won't look back. It's still the best job in the world despite the current industrial unrest.

Go for it. You are entitled to request flexible working accomodation from day one these days, if that would help you with childcare then apply for it. My advice is to join ASLEF from day one and speak to the reps if the shift pattern doesn't work to help you.

You *can* do this and the railway *will* work with you to make your career successful.

I agree with most of what you say, BUT , if everyone chooses flexible working, who is left to do the graveyard stuff? And i say this as someone with kids!

 

[skyhigh]

Being on the railway with kids does allow if anything more time with them id say due to the fact train drivers get more time off work than your average Monday to Friday 9 til 5 job. As long as you are prepared to work all shifts and won't quickly demand a personal link that shafts your colleagues who then get stuck with all the unsociable stuff, then as others have said , give it a try, you won't look back. It's still the best job in the world despite the current industrial unrest.

Agreed.

To be honest, the initial training will be hard work. The shifts won't be great and you will miss some stuff, it's inevitable. But I wouldn't go back to a 9-5 job and I'd say it's worth the hard work getting there.

 

[Mattydo]

Yes. Go for it.

 

[Class2ldn]

Go for it. You are entitled to request flexible working accomodation from day one these days, if that would help you with childcare then apply for it. My advice is to join ASLEF from day one and speak to the reps if the shift pattern doesn't work to help you.

You *can* do this and the railway *will* work with you to make your career successful.

You'll never be able to do this straightaway on the railway, it won't go down well with colleagues or management so the OP will need to find a way to adapt to the shifts and working life like everyone else.
We all have families, as said above if everyone does this then who does the rest of the work, try telling them in your interview you want this from day one and see how quickly that rejection reply lands, it won't take long.
There are plenty of women on the railway and flexible working may be possible at some point but expecting it from the off (not saying the OP is) will just create a bad vibe, its a 24 hour operation and something you need to think about and accept before even applying.
There's good and bad in this job, you'll have plenty of time for holidays but in the same year you may have to sacrifice time around Xmas because of your shifts, its swings and roundabouts but it is doable, just be aware of the downsides to this job as its not for everyone.

 

[Sonkicks]

I believe shift patterns on passenger trains are not to bad compared to most you will know in advance your shifts, there is always the whole if your train is delayed or late then obviously so will you with finishing.

I think the good thing is being able to shut off from work when you finish. My current role I’m always on call that I don’t mind but with my job role I always end up getting called in at night not a bother for me at my present point but it’s like I’m never shut off from work

 

[Mattydo]

Some may be peeved if you obtain flexible working but personally I'd say go for it... After you pass out as it may not be best to mention it whilst still a trainee.

Employers in the UK and the railway in particular, need to get better at facilitating parental needs, so I can't guarantee you'll get it quickly but if it rubs other drivers up the wrong way I'm afraid that's their problem.

I know plenty of drivers on "accommodated links" and the idea that it should annoy me is quite odd. The shift timings however will still be antisocial but overall... I work a full time roster, although tend to give back my Sundays, a 4 day week is often better for quality family time than a 5 day 9-5 (let's be realistic it's more like 8-6 or more these days plus you bring work home with you), plus you'll be off for more time your kids are outside of weekends. It's give and take as it were.

I have a friend who is a mum of two who manages quite well with a similar shift pattern but it does take a bit more planning. I'd like to see the industry diversify a bit more and that means welcoming and supporting mothers being mothers.

Double check legal entitlement too. You can take an additional 18 weeks leave per child up to their 18th birthday (max 4 weeks in any year) unpaid as parental leave for last minute issues. That's a legal requirement not a company specified thing. It's good when something unexpected comes up.

Good luck!

 

[ComUtoR]

Double check legal entitlement too. You can take an additional 18 weeks leave per child up to their 18th birthday (max 4 weeks in any year) unpaid as parental leave for last minute issues. That's a legal requirement not a company specified thing. It's good when something unexpected comes up.

1yr minimum service
21 days notice required
Not automatically granted
Can be deferred up to 6 months

 

[Mattydo]

1yr minimum service
21 days notice required
Not automatically granted
Can be deferred up to 6 months

You'd hope for better flexibility than the minimum though.

 

[baz962]

Just go for it. Although you might miss some stuff you will be able to do other things you might have missed in a nine to five type role. It really is swings and roundabouts. At most depots I have worked you can usually swap out some shifts and annual leave with others that don't have children or whose children have grown up. I always offer up the annual leave during school holidays.

 

[Sly Sloth]

There are 2 options available if you get the job….

1, realise that you need to be flexible around the job and you’ll have a great career
2, get the job and be completely inflexible, demand all sorts and play all the cards available!

either way works and I’ve seen both used through the years

 

[Sonkicks]

There are 2 options available if you get the job….

1, realise that you need to be flexible around the job and you’ll have a great career
2, get the job and be completely inflexible, demand all sorts and play all the cards available!

either way works and I’ve seen both used through the years

I feel like being the number 1 works out a lot better from experience even in just enjoying the job as well as your mental experience, if you demand lots and play lots of cards it causes problems even for yourself. You won’t enjoy it if you think like the second option.

Having all of that about a job that requires very good focus and a safety critical role isn’t a good sign that you take the job seriously. Go for the number 1 option and you’ll find when you need to be flexible it will be easier for people to understand

 

[Train_manager]

You'd hope for better flexibility than the minimum though.

There has been employment tribunal regarding flexible working ref: train driver shifts. Can't find the link.

They ruled in favour of the company. I believe GWR.

Anyway my personal opinion. GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

 

[Mattydo]

There has been employment tribute regarding flexible working ref: train driver shifts. Can't find the link.

They ruled in favour of the company. I believe GWR.

Anyway my personal opinion. GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

I was referring to parental leave. The company would require exceptional reasons to delay.

 

[Train_manager]

I was referring to parental leave. The company would require exceptional reasons to delay.

Sorry missed the point from the OP regarding parental leave.

 

[Wyrleybart]

You'll never be able to do this straightaway on the railway, it won't go down well with colleagues or management so the OP will need to find a way to adapt to the shifts and working life like everyone else.
We all have families, as said above if everyone does this then who does the rest of the work, try telling them in your interview you want this from day one and see how quickly that rejection reply lands, it won't take long.
There are plenty of women on the railway and flexible working may be possible at some point but expecting it from the off (not saying the OP is) will just create a bad vibe, its a 24 hour operation and something you need to think about and accept before even applying.
There's good and bad in this job, you'll have plenty of time for holidays but in the same year you may have to sacrifice time around Xmas because of your shifts, its swings and roundabouts but it is doable, just be aware of the downsides to this job as its not for everyone.

I think these are very important words. You need to have a gameplan and expect to deliver it as much as possible. It is not fair to expect the other colleagues in your link to pick up your crap if you or your partner cannot manage your family lives without support from driver managers, the rosters and your colleagues.

If you can manage to sew all of those threads together it is a really great job where no two days are the same. As a driver you will spend a lot of time alone in the cab which can be a really good space providing you keep your head free of distractions. Expect the unexpected especially as modern trains have more and more computers built in, which mean that when things go wrong you are on the end of the phone to a techie and they will expect you to trip, reset, reboot, ctl alt del etc as appropriate. You should expect some of that, and not simply just wave at a colleague going the other way.

Hope this is taken in the spirit it is intended

 

[12LDA28C]

You need to carefully consider what is important and understand that a balance must be struck between work and home/family life. The railway is a 24/7 industry and there will most likely be times when you just can't make a Parents' evening or a Sports Day or other event. It's simply not realistic to take the job knowing the hours and shift patterns and then expecting your employer to bend over backwards to accommodate your family commitments. Too many people join the industry with a huge sense of entitlement.

As long as you can accept this and have the facility and support from your partner to make it work then it's certainly a great opportunity which should be grasped with both hands and could provide you with a great career and decent quality of life for you and yours.

 

[Hannahkri95]

thank you for your responses - they’ve been helpful! It’s not so much I’m expecting/hoping to go in there and get flexible working but I’m currently a career which works well around my kids but I know for sure it’s not something I can see myself doing for more than 3-4 more years due to stress. It’s just hard to make a decision when I’m not too sure what life would look like as a train driver. I do know it’s 35 hours 1 week lates and 1 week earlies. But I’d like to know does every shift vary or are the relatively similar times? Do you have to work every weekend or a couple out of the month? How many rest days do you get?

 

[driver9000]

One important note to remember is that it's an average 35hr week. Some weeks you'll work more than 35hrs and others you'll work less to balance it out. I don't work for Southeastern so can't speak for how their rostering system works but I've just finished a 6 day block of lates working a different duty each day.

You will have a base roster that you can work to knowing your booked turns and rest days well in advance but you wouldn't know for certain what your actual hours would be when Spare in the link until the posting date for the daily Rosters. Is the job worth the sacrifices it demands? Overall yes it is.

 

[SteveL9]

One of the issues I can see is that you’re working different days and times every week. For my 9 to 5 I used nursery Tuesdays and Fridays and grandparents/partner covered the other days. This wouldn’t work on the railway because they’ll be weeks you’d be off Tuesday and Friday so wouldn’t need nursery, but also when you’re not off you will be working at drop off or pick up times depending on if you’re on earlies or lates.

I can’t see how the railway is compatible with caring commitments unless you have a very flexible and understanding partner. I’d love to hear more about how people manage the practicalities.

 

[Horizon22]

I believe shift patterns on passenger trains are not to bad compared to most you will know in advance your shifts, there is always the whole if your train is delayed or late then obviously so will you with finishing.

Really? What are you comparing it too? I think shifts with extreme early starts (c. 3am) and also extreme late finishes (c. 2am) are quite bad; I can’t think of any railway roles which are similar except guards but even they are generally slightly less extreme! Even if there’s no or few nights, most people that do nights work 1900-0700 or more scheduled start/finish times.

Anyway to the OP; it can definitely be done and these concerns stop you doing it. Just bare this all in mind and also consider how pre-agreed blocks of Annual Leave (with the potential to swap) will fit into your lifestyle

 

[LokiB]

You say your partner works from home and is very hands on so the physicalities of child care should be covered.
Yeap with the shifts you will miss out on certain events, however, with your roster you will know what shifts you are booked months in advance ( shifts times may vary slightly for a variety of reasons) which enables you to try arrange swaps or A/L.

At the end of the day only you can decide what is best for you and your family but for me I'd rather take the chance then leave if it didn't work out rather than regret not giving it a go and always wondering what could have been.

 

[Sonkicks]

Really? What are you comparing it too? I think shifts with extreme early starts (c. 3am) and also extreme late finishes (c. 2am) are quite bad; I can’t think of any railway roles which are similar except guards but even they are generally slightly less extreme! Even if there’s no or few nights, most people that do nights work 1900-0700 or more scheduled start/finish times.

Anyway to the OP; it can definitely be done and these concerns stop you doing it. Just bare this all in mind and also consider how pre-agreed blocks of Annual Leave (with the potential to swap) will fit into your lifestyle

Well compared to my shifts sometimes I think just knowing what time you’re going to start is a huge advantage rather than on my end being called at 2am in the middle of the night to come in. at that point I start my shift just having a schedule would be nice for me. My shifts are all over the place it’s surprising how I probably get called in at random at least 2 times a week usually being around 2-4am when I’m initially preparing to start at 8am

Overall it depends where you are coming from

 

[ComUtoR]

I can’t see how the railway is compatible with caring commitments unless you have a very flexible and understanding partner. I’d love to hear more about how people manage the practicalities.

Railway workers tend to be flexible thinkers. Shift work isn't unique to the railway and many many organisations are also flexible.

With nursery, we didn't have any real problems. One of us was generally available and as you say, Grandparents help out.

School was the worst because they are too fixed. On late turn it was generally impossible to collect but easy to drop. Vice versa for earlies. I missed a few sports days etc but I managed most of the school events because I could get a swap quite easily. What I, and many of us benefit from is weekdays off. Having Wed/Thursday off means I can be completely available for the basic day to day. We also have a roster where all my days off are posted months in advance. Very easy to organise life when you know exactly when you aren't at work.

There is also a benefit where we get block days off. I was working late last night but I bumped into a Driver from my depot who had just come back from a short break abroad. City breaks are very easy to fit in and cheap too if they are midweek.

My kids understood I can't always be there but I watch the 9-5'ers and I shiver at what that life is.

Flexible partner(s) are a godsend.

Also, kids grow up. A little struggle in the short term has paid dividends in the long.