Delays at Alnmouth and how NOT to handle it!

[yorkie]

I was booked on the 0928 Cross Country (XC) York-Birmingham today, and my train was one of several delayed by over an hour.

The only info about it on National Rail Enquiries is:

A signalling problem is causing disruption at Alnmouth.
Because of this, there are delays of up to 60 minutes between Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed. These delays are expected to last until approximately 12:00.
​

No advice about alternative ticket arrangements!

At York station I asked about taking the 0932 additional East Coast (EC) to Doncaster, then using TransPennine Express (TPE), East Midlands Trains (EMT) and XC changing at Donny, Sheffield and Derby, I was told this was not allowed as EC were not accepting tickets!!!!

The only alternative I would be allowed to do would be TPE to Leeds, Northern to Sheffield, and then EMT to Derby and XC from there to Birmingham. Which is insane as, excluding connections, that's at least an hour and a half to get to Sheffield, compared to, again excluding connections, 45 minutes via Doncaster.

Anyway fast forward to an hour later... the 1025 from York left Newcastle on time, but the train manager, Paul, insisted that several hundred passengers boarding his train would have to cram into just 3 coaches, unless they had a first class ticket, as first class was NOT declassified. Given the huge crowds, it took a long time to get hundreds of people aboard 3 coaches, and this caused the train to be further delayed.

I decided to wait for my booked train as this was not far behind, no-one had advised waiting but I was booked on it and Paul was acting in an anti-customer way and I wasn't prepared to be squashed into a vestibule like a sardine, so I waited. What a good decision that was, as the following train, that I am on now, is at least 8 coaches long! I went to the front and there are only 5 people in my coach.

But what a farce. Poor communication by XC control and questionable decision making by Paul the XC TM.

Hopefully we'll overtake the train ahead, or it's going to keep delaying us!

It's such a shame that a small number of TMs, and poor communication by some TOC management, give the entire industry a bad name.

I did advise some passengers to wait, and they agreed with me it was a good choice. But why didn't the rail industry advise that? Of course had I known this train would be at least 8 coaches long I would have advised more to wait. But why should passengers have to work these things out for themselves? Where is the communication?

 

[rail-britain]

But why didn't the rail industry advise that?

To avoid paying out on the passengers charter
It does seem a fine line between arriving an hour late with 500 passengers, or waiting an hour for the train you are supposed to be on with 5 passengers

If the station staff advise that other operators will not accept tickets, then wait for that hour to pass
Eventually there comes a point where alternative or rerouting may have to take place, typically once it is obvious delays will exceed three hours

 

[yorkie]

The guard on my train (Ed) is really good. Unfortunately Network Rail have put several stoppers in front of us including a Donny-Sheffield stopper and now we're behind the Matlock-Derby. I think there's a delay at Derby now as well.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I don't think there's any need to name the XC TM, Yorkie. It's just immature and silly to do so.

 

[rail-britain]

I don't think there's any need to name the XC TM, Yorkie. It's just immature and silly to do so.

Only first name was given
Different if it was full name
Most companies issue staff with name badges with first name only

Equally, when I worked on the railway my name badge wasn't even my name and there were quite a few people who had dual badges

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Only first name was given
Different if it was full name
Most companies issue staff with name badges with first name only

Equally, when I worked on the railway my name badge wasn't even my name and there were quite a few people who had dual badges

That's for use in complaints to the company, not for plastering everywhere. It does not add anything to the original post at all, except for the fact it makes Yorkie look silly.

 

[222007]

But what a farce. Poor communication by XC control and questionable decision making by Paul the XC TM.

If i may add to this. My work phone has been going mad in regards to this very incident. I cant always defend our control but today information was being sent out. Often stations are slow to feed this information out

 

[yorkie]

I don't think there's any need to name the XC TM, Yorkie. It's just immature and silly to do so.

No it isn't. Their first name (only) is on their badge.

Ed was excellent. Paul was not. Deal with it.

Praise where its due and not where it isn't. That is fair and nothing confidential is given out.

They are my experiences and usually guards are good sometimes they are particularly good. But when they are not why not say so?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

They are my experiences and usually guards are good sometimes they are particularly good. But when they are not why not say so?

Exactly. But there's no need to name them. IMO it's just silly.

 

[yorkie]

If i may add to this. My work phone has been going mad in regards to this very incident. I cant always defend our control but today information was being sent out. Often stations are slow to feed this information out

But the guard didn't help so its not just York station to blame.

 

[222007]

Was there already first class passengers on board may i ask? If so the TM did exactly the right thing to not de-clasify first

 

[GB]

Only first name was given
Different if it was full name

Given that the exact service details have been provided, one would not need a second name (or first name for that matter) to ID the person.

As Ralph says, there is no real reason to name names, particularly on an internet forum.

If Yorkie (or anyone else) has a problem with a member of staff then he should go through proper channels, although his only gripe with said guard seems to be that he didn't declassify 1st class.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Given that the exact service details have been provided, one would not need a second name (or first name for that matter) to ID the person.

As Ralph says, there is no real reason to name names, particularly on an internet forum.

Agreed!
I find it regrettable that an individual has been named, with apparently no good reason to do so. In fact, its not even a particularly pertinent thread, other than to raise the issue of identifying individuals.

 

[the sniper]

How many people were in First? If there were a good number of people in there, then I'd argue he did the right thing not declassifying it.

 

[Fred26]

All naming names could result in, is people 'looking out' for said Guard. That's unwanted attention. The name badge is for complaints and shouldn't be broadcast. I'd be absolutely livid if it were my name. Also, there may be more than one Paul, causing greater problems.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see how anyone can have any complaints about what I said and I find it very disappointing and also surprising, that people think that a visible name badge for all to see is somehow confidential or should be kept a secret.

The "purpose" is to share my experience of my journey; it's clear from the title that it wasn't a brilliant experience so you knew what to expect. Nothing compels people to read it.

I am always happy to issue praise where it's due, and the vast majority of guards are friendly and helpful. Ed was excellent and a credit to the industry. There are other excellent TMs on that route including Kevin who can give almost any connection you can imagine including platform numbers.

 

[GB]

Why did you think it was relevent to include his name in your original post? Why couldn't you have simply refered to him as "the guard..."?

 

[Mojo]

Why not? Would you also be very angry to discover that your booked train for arrival at a specific time is very late, that other Tocs are not accepting tickets via a different route, to then find that you are being forced to cram into a very short train, which is being further delayed because of this? I know I would...

 

[me123]

To maybe add a more positive note to the Alnmouth signalling problems story, I was on one of the trains delayed for over an hour coming through Alnmouth. Slightly tedious going from signal to signal to signal at walking pace.

I have nothing but praise for the crew on the East Coast train I was on. As soon as we came to a standstill, the guard was on the PA apologising and promising to find out what the problem was. Sure enough, he did and relayed the information. He kept us up to date as new information came through, and even when there wasn't much to say he came on every so often to remind us that he was in the Cafe-Bar if there were any queries. Obviously being East Coast, most of us were probably on Advance tickets, so he assured us that these had been marked and were valid on the next connection. And, when the crew changed over at Newcastle, the next guard provided fantastic interchange information for all the new services (including advising passengers bound for Hull that changing at York was no longer their best option, and that they should now change at Darlington). Really excellently handled IMO.

Having said all that, it's not going to stop me reclaiming my ticket costs through delay repay

I'm sorry to read your bad experience, Yorkie. I was at the back of the queue (the 09:00 from Edinburgh; the 09:30 behind us was cancelled and the 10:00 seemed to be not far behind us!) so we didn't have as much to contend with I reckon. Those at the front would have had to have dealt not only with the fall out from this, but probably heavier than normal passenger loads due to having up to a two hour gap in train services!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Was there already first class passengers on board may i ask? If so the TM did exactly the right thing to not de-clasify first

I obviously don't know about Yorkie's train, but given that just about every train coming from Edinburgh this morning was stuck in a large queue crawling through Alnmouth, quite a few would have been severely delayed and I imagine that space would have been at a premium on any service leaving Newcastle. Given that there's "only" one FC carriages on the train in question, it's probably quite likely that it was heavily loaded with people who intended to travel via EC.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I don't think there's any need to name the XC TM, Yorkie. It's just immature and silly to do so.

and a prime example of why I dislike us having to wear name badges

 

[Dennis]

and a prime example of why I dislike us having to wear name badges

Might be better to be known by name than some unflattering adjectives being used instead!

 

[Anon Mouse]

Might be better to be known by name than some unflattering adjectives being used instead!

well I get them as well!

 

[Max]

and a prime example of why I dislike us having to wear name badges

No offence but if you do your job to a good standard then why should this be an issue?

 

[yorkie]

and a prime example of why I dislike us having to wear name badges

Why not? I doubt Ed, Kevin or any of the many good TMs are complaining? Indeed I've noticed the better the guard the more willing they are to introduce themselves, e.g. "Hi I'm <name> and welcome aboard..." And if you don't like it, take it up with the company. It's ludicrous to moan (not you) that people are "broadcasting" things that are broadcast via the PA system anyway!

However I'd agree with you if passengers didn't have to give their details to TMs! In fact it's worse than that as we have to give confidential stuff like our address. To a police officer, fine. But to a TM that's a bit much, especially when you are valid and they refuse to believe it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I obviously don't know about Yorkie's train, but given that just about every train coming from Edinburgh this morning was stuck in a large queue crawling through Alnmouth, quite a few would have been severely delayed and I imagine that space would have been at a premium on any service leaving Newcastle. Given that there's "only" one FC carriages on the train in question, it's probably quite likely that it was heavily loaded with people who intended to travel via EC.

The train I got was very lightly loaded indeed, due to poor communication. Many passengers would have had a much better experience if they had waited for this train, like I did. It is most unfortunate that no-one advertised the fact that an 8-car train was waiting outside the station, while people were queuing to board a train that must rank as one of the most well-loaded I've seen (in the rear 3 coaches, that is) on an 'Inter City' route. And totally unnecessarily. Sadly this will give several hundred people a very negative memory of rail travel, and as someone who is pro-rail I object to that, when it was so unnecessary.

So, I actually got a very pleasant (albeit slow!) experience on board my train and the crew were excellent.

 

[Blindtraveler]

naming names aside, 4 car voyagers and a general lacking in customer care particularly, in my experience amongst newer staff are what make xc what it is, a sauce of stress to many! I work in customer service and wouldnt be satisfied myself.

The problems experiencf here were doubtless exassibated by xc's usual habbit of overloading short voyagers anyway, a point which after my pregnant friend was unable to sit down 5 mornings in a row i've written to philip hammond about. I know before anyone starts that xc inherited the voyager problem rather than creating it, but to me there efforts to solve it were mainly talk and not a great deal of action and after the above, which included a totally shoddy response to her complaints I lost my temper and decided to take it somewhere. How much longer have we got left of overbookings, no wifi and appauling catering by the way?

As to the name or not argument, and this doubtless wil make me unpopular but if i'm a little anoyed I wil sometimes feel a need to name drop. That said, if its a serius issue i'll keep it quiet, esp if i'm making a complaint to the toc. When it comes to good service, why not praise the individual or orgonisation where all can find it! As to X C, yeh, had Kevin once and he was fab!

I think, with the best will in the world and i'm sure many wil agree its been a rough week on the ecml what with 2 fatalitties and a number of signaling etc type issues. Again, as someone who works with joh public, its v hard to keep smiling when the worlds throwing it all at you in one week and even if your used to it then you are liable to lose it a bit quicker than normal.

A thought which most likely went through any rail worker on that run today was, 'oh not again'! As to NRE, well we've come to expect limmited/no info from them, for all there text alerts and fb pages there just, not, in my opinion up to the job!

Xc's 1 saving grace for me is hsts!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Why not? Would you also be very angry to discover that your booked train for arrival at a specific time is very late, that other Tocs are not accepting tickets via a different route, to then find that you are being forced to cram into a very short train, which is being further delayed because of this? I know I would...

Because the event was in just one moment in time. Evidence on the internet may (somehow) still be accesible and traceable throughout every momment in the decades of life and work ahead of the named person. Maybe many decades, many employers and many other reasons to have their history scrutinised.

Because the event (as described) is just one person's view and analysis -from an anonymous poster who cannot be questioned to substantiate their claim. The named professional is not invited to respond (nor even informed of the possibility of a response).

The Data Protection Act, for all its faults, seeks in principle, to prevent the unneccessary publication of information about individual persons which may be identifiable personal details. I agree with that principle.

If the OP and the person concerned both wished to make a public and lasting record of their views then I would be the first to support it. But the facts here appear to be that the rail professional has not even been informed of this thread (and so is unaware of even the possibility of a right of reply), and the OP does not which to reveal their own identity in a manner which can be precisely deduced - that's in contrast with the details about the railway professional.

This forum's staff would do well to take this opportunity to review their own Data Protection Policy and Procedures. For what its worth, I don't beleive that a breach of the Act has occurred, but there is a very obvious line of challenging that Practice if this thread's key posts are not deleted when the personal details cease to be necessary. (And I'm being very generous in even suggesting that they might ever have been necessary).

 

[yorkie]

Because the event was in just one moment in time. Evidence on the internet may (somehow) still be accesible and traceable throughout every momment in the decades of life and work ahead of the named person.

I don't see how anyone is personally identifiable. If they feel they have a unique first name I would suggest they take that up with the company, and I am sure they will be accommodating.

If a name is broadcast on the PA system and visible on a badge, I think I can safely say that it's not confidential.

Of course if it was a first name and surname on a private piece of paper such as UPFN then that is quite a different matter.

Becasue the event (as desribed) is just one person's view and analysis by an anonymous poster. The named professional is not invited to respond (nor even informed of the possibility of a response).

Nothing to stop them responding, but I don't see how it's any different to anyone else who is visible and named in public view?

The Data Protection Act, for all its faults, seeks in principle to prevent the unneccessary publication of information about individual persons which may be identifiable personal details. I agree with that principle.

If the OP and the person concerned both wished to make a public and lasting record of their views then I would be the first to support it. But the facts here appear to be that the rail professional has not even been informed of this thread (and so is unaware of even the possibility of a right of reply), and the OP does not which to reveal their own identity in a manner which can be precisely deduced - in contrast with the details about the railway professional.

The forum staff would do well to take this opportunity to review their own Data Protection Policy and Procedures. For what its worth, I don't beleive that a breach has occurred, though there is a very obvious line of challenging that Practice if the thread is not deleted when the personal details cease to be necessary.

In that case, when a footballer is announced over a PA, and their name visible on their shirt, does that mean that people who comment on their performance should be seeking permission to agree the comments with the footballer concerned? If there are differences between the scenarios I'd be interested to know what they are.

 

[Blindtraveler]

thanks Dave, good point sir. Wil bare that in mind next time I fancy a good moan. Having said that though, yes i wonder myself if its a problem if the party in question has a badge with his name and also uses it during pa announcements. Could a mod clarifie this once and for all as it would save the situation we now have developing. Thanks.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Nothing to stop them responding, but I don't see how it's any different to anyone else who is visible and named in public view?

Nothing to stop them responding? Do you mean to tell us that you made the posts WITH them, so that they heard and read your words as you typed and had a forum login and opportunity to reply?
Really?

In that case, when a footballer is announced over a PA, and their name visible on their shirt, does that mean that people who comment on their performance should be seeking permission to agree the comments with the footballer concerned? If there are differences between the scenarios I'd be interested to know what they are.

As my Philosophy lecturer made clear whenever anyone in the class wanted to use an analogy - you'd better be sure that its analogous.
This isn't.
I don't know anything about football but I guess that their contracts of employment (or whatever terms they use) are NOT analogous with employment on a TOC.

I'm happy to discuss if we stick to the point. Although internet fora are used in a chatty and transitory manner, they are permanent and published, and therefore exposed to the accusation of libel.
Frankly, I'm more concerned with the poor person's future. Using myself as an example, I've had bad days, and not all of my doing (accident, fatality, crises, etc.) and I wouldn't expect an unfortunate casualty of my distraction to leave a permananet written record of my failings for all to see in perpetuity; without me even being told of the publication nor being given the right of reply. Not even the worst of the gutter press would get away with that!

Please stop trying to defend the situation and recognise helpful advice when its given.

 

[thefab444]

I don't really see that Yorkie has much to moan about on a TM level, the bigger issue, which appears to have been ignored by subsequent pro-staff posters - presumably because it is the fault of staff, is XC not sorting out alternative ticketing arrangements.

It does make me laugh when the pro-staff members of the forum close ranks and get all uppity over such a small thing. Messrs Newcastle and Chadkirk's replies in particular have been extremely amusing.