Reflections on travel in Germany

[AndrewP]

Just back from Germany and it has made me realise just how good the trains are in the UK!

Virtually every train was delayed or cancelled with delays of 45 mins to an hour being the norm on ICEs and that was when they turned up.

The highlight was a trip from Frankfurt to Brussels which ended up with a delay of over six hours and ended up being by taxi due to trains being cancelled.

On a positive side, the journey down the Rhine was beautiful.

Never thought I would say this but DB in Germany could take lessons on running trains from their Grand Central subsidiary!

 

[tony6499]

I noticed that last month on various journeys, loads of building work at stations making them hard to get through, I'm disabled. The trains were just as bad, lots of delays and over crowding even in 1st class as I had a 1st class Interrail.
Even on the journey back to Brussels from Koln there were delays at Aachen due to a technical fault making me worried I'd miss my Eurostar.
Nothing like it used to be on DB.

 

[Austriantrain]

There is an entire active thread devoted to the topic:

German Rail in decline ?

If I look at the number of flights from Düsseldorf to Berlin or Düsseldorf to Munich it had competion only not in rails Same for coaches and car traffic. Fact is long distance trains are full and no further trains can be added to much of the system. In principle they could presumably make...

www.railforums.co.uk

And yes, DB is in catastrophic shape. The network was very good around 2000, but then the German government decided to put its priority in spending as little as possible (in general), along the way slashing maintenance budgets.

It will take years for it to get better (routes are now being modernized, entailing diversions and more delays). Until then, it’s best to add 60-90 minutes to any advertised journey time and never assume anything will run on time (although it will occasionally happen - then it should be seen as good luck).

There are trains in Austria which we all avoid because we know they come from Germany (or are the return of a train coming from there) and will invariably be very late, notably the ICE Frankfurt - Vienna (trains starting from Munich are usually ok).

 

[yorksrob]

What was Mrs Merkel thinking !

 

[Royston Vasey]

Don't forget to claim delay compensation, via the Passenger Rights Claim Form. It's much less generous than our delay repay here, 25% for an hour and 50% for two hours.

You have to print and post it to the address in Frankfurt, if you can't hand it in at a station. I haven't found a way to do this electronically, let alone automatically, even when booked through bahn.de. You also need to know your IBAN and BIC but it's easy to generate that from your Sort Code and Account No.

I've never done it but the main passenger rights regulations page does state that receipts for incidental expenses like overnight accommodation, or bus/taxi up to €80 can be enclosed, if the railway has not provided substitute transport AND you have been unable to contact railway personnel to arrange such.

 

[dutchflyer]

AFAIK as a kind of new experiment-and only for those lucky enough to have a DB-account and onyl travelled on DB-it is now possible to do some online claiming. This is all done by an independent office which sends the bill to the railways thought of as cause of it all-your trip may be on 4-5-6 different railways!

AFAIK as a kind of new experiment-and only for those lucky enough to have a DB-account and onyl travelled on DB-it is now possible to do some online claiming. This is all done by an independent office which sends the bill to the railways thought of as cause of it all-your trip may be on 4-5-6 different railways!

Having myself a Deutschland=slow trains ticket since 1/6 and using it around 1/3 of the days, I have encountered delays about any travelday, serious or less so. A major thing is also when planned connections into buslines running 1/hr, that cannot wait for more as 5-6 mins for delayed trains they are supposed to give connections from.

 

[duesselmartin]

Don't forget to claim delay compensation, via the Passenger Rights Claim Form. It's much less generous than our delay repay here, 25% for an hour and 50% for two hours.

You have to print and post it to the address in Frankfurt, if you can't hand it in at a station. I haven't found a way to do this electronically, let alone automatically, even when booked through bahn.de. You also need to know your IBAN and BIC but it's easy to generate that from your Sort Code and Account No.

I've never done it but the main passenger rights regulations page does state that receipts for incidental expenses like overnight accommodation, or bus/taxi up to €80 can be enclosed, if the railway has not provided substitute transport AND you have been unable to contact railway personnel to arrange such.

you can claim compensation on the DB Navigator app. No need to post anything.

 

[Royston Vasey]

you can claim compensation on the DB Navigator app. No need to post anything.

That's interesting as I can't find an option to do that on the English version of the app, even when my tickets have been synced correctly, and the English website says nothing about the possibility either. Would be interesting if anyone has managed it on the English version of the app...

 

[kylemore]

What was Mrs Merkel thinking !

Perhaps wee Gefreiter Scholz - who's going to show Putin a thing or two - can make the trains run on time!

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps wee Gefreiter Scholz - who's going to show Putin a thing or two - can make the trains run on time!

Sounds as though he has his work cut out !

 

[DanielB]

That's interesting as I can't find an option to do that on the English version of the app, even when my tickets have been synced correctly, and the English website says nothing about the possibility either. Would be interesting if anyone has managed it on the English version of the app...

It's quite hidden. But when you go to "Feedback & Help" in the menu, there is an option "Information & Help", then scroll down to "Booking and ticket" and select "Exchange and cancellation". Then you'll have three options, two of which being "Requesting compensation using the passenger rights form" and "Passengers' rights claim form".

However both links seem to end up on the same page on the website where you'd still have to print and send the form.

 

[StephenHunter]

What was Mrs Merkel thinking !

She's gone now. It was Scholz's government that saw the introduction of the 49-Euro ticket and that is most certainly not going to help the DB balance sheet.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

It's quite hidden. But when you go to "Feedback & Help" in the menu, there is an option "Information & Help", then scroll down to "Booking and ticket" and select "Exchange and cancellation". Then you'll have three options, two of which being "Requesting compensation using the passenger rights form" and "Passengers' rights claim form".

However both links seem to end up on the same page on the website where you'd still have to print and send the form.

No, if you want to claim compensation on a specific ticket bought on the website or in the app (normal DB tickets Super Spar/Spar/Flexpreis), then you go to My tickets, open the ticket, scroll down to where it says "Feedback on journey", click the three small dots next to that, then select "Edit order" and then "Submit passenger rights claim" and follow through the submission process.

She's gone now. It was Scholz's government that saw the introduction of the 49-Euro ticket and that is most certainly not going to help the DB balance sheet.

The transport companies are refunded the loss of revenue that happens due to the 9€ and 49€ ticket. Also what's more important is infrastructure spending which has been low for decades but also doesn't seem to be getting much better under Wissing (FDP), as both him and the finance minister don't seem to want to spend as much on railway infrastructure as they promised to

 

[Royston Vasey]

No, if you want to claim compensation on a specific ticket bought on the website or in the app (normal DB tickets Super Spar/Spar/Flexpreis), then you go to My tickets, open the ticket, scroll down to where it says "Feedback on journey", click the three small dots next to that, then select "Edit order" and then "Submit passenger rights claim" and follow through the submission process

I only have an expired ticket currently in my app and I don't see that option in the Edit Order screen but I guess only because it is three months old and showing as invalid. Will take a look when I have an active one.

 

[yorksrob]

She's gone now. It was Scholz's government that saw the introduction of the 49-Euro ticket and that is most certainly not going to help the DB balance sheet.

The transport companies are refunded the loss of revenue that happens due to the 9€ and 49€ ticket. Also what's more important is infrastructure spending which has been low for decades but also doesn't seem to be getting much better under Wissing (FDP), as both him and the finance minister don't seem to want to spend as much on railway infrastructure as they promised to

Those tickets will at least ensure that passenger usage remains buoyant and help to justify the required infrastructure expenditure.

Well done Mr Scholz !

 

[Austriantrain]

She's gone now. It was Scholz's government that saw the introduction of the 49-Euro ticket and that is most certainly not going to help the DB balance sheet.

Nothing to do with this. The lack of money is on the infrastructure side, and that is mainly financed by taxes anyway.

 

[StephenHunter]

The transport companies are refunded the loss of revenue that happens due to the 9€ and 49€ ticket. Also what's more important is infrastructure spending which has been low for decades but also doesn't seem to be getting much better under Wissing (FDP), as both him and the finance minister don't seem to want to spend as much on railway infrastructure as they promised to

The FDP are pretty pro-car, yes.

 

[peteb]

As the topic is reflections on travel in Germany here are some of mine from the past 3 months:

1. International trains seem the least reliable: Amsterdam to Berlin was heavily delayed though not in Germany; Munich to Zurich was badly delayed by engineering works which meant it lost paths.

2. IC 2 trains seem to have more space on the lower deck generally and lower deck can be a lot cooler on warm days.

3. Diesel regional services seem pretty reliable, several I travelled on left late awaiting connections but made up time en route.

4. The old East Germany is still a maze of disused lines, grassy sidings etc. From Frankfurt am Oder down to Zittau it's pretty but you are never far from signs of obsolete industry (think South Yorkshire).

5. Steam is well worth seeking out, many preserved narrow gauge lines, the one from Zittau makes an easy half day outing.

6. Long distance IC trains can be quieter than ICE, maybe because they are slower? But also have comfy seats and longer trains means there's somewhere to wander if your legs get stiff on a long journey.

7. S bahn in Berlin has no toilets on board!

8. If Rhine valley trains packed out, try the opposite bank line from Wiesbaden to Koblenz, the scenery is just as good.

9. From Bonn there's a good alternative though slow route to Koln via Koln Flughafen. Whenever I've used this it seems half empty.

10. Ditto Koln to Dusseldorf can be a squeeze on local trains. Going via Monchengladbach is slow but quieter.

Generally stations and trains are cleaner than UK, but every station has its fair share of smokers, and this is pretty standard across Europe.

I managed to get quite a lot of loco haulage by referring to Wagonweb and other forums, but most regional trains were DMU or Emu. Standards on these varied between cramped to spacious, older stock has better window/seat alignment I found.

Interrail is great no questions asked anywhere, but I'd recommend reserving seats on long distance trains using Bahn.de website to avoid shunting round on ICEs, ICs always seemed to have space somewhere.

Last summer I tried the 9 euro ticket and virtually every train was wedged. Certainly not quite as crazily overcrowded this summer....so far.

It's worth finding out when school holidays are. Actually June is busy with school trips by train. Beware, that quiet 2 car dmu can suddenly be inundated with 25 small children and their teachers!

I found travelling round Germany by train to be easy, people were generally friendly and many spoke perfect English. Many on board announcements are in English too, particularly on ICE.

 

[DanielB]

1. International trains seem the least reliable: Amsterdam to Berlin was heavily delayed though not in Germany;

When it wasn't delayed in Germany, where was it then... these trains commonly are announced in the Netherlands as having a large delay from abroad. The Dutch path of this IC is that slow with lengthy station stops, it actually can make up for most of the delays earlier on the route.

 

[peteb]

When it wasn't delayed in Germany, where was it then... these trains commonly are announced in the Netherlands as having a large delay from abroad. The Dutch path of this IC is that slow with lengthy station stops, it actually can make up for most of the delays earlier on the route.

Delay was due to massive overcrowding at Amsterdam on the Berlin bound IC train with conductor refusing to let the train leave till those sitting in the aisles and blocking doors got off and got the next train. Needless to say there were few volunteers so we left Amsterdam an hour late.

 

[islandmonkey]

3. Diesel regional services seem pretty reliable, several I travelled on left late awaiting connections but made up time en route.

I have to say, I found myself in an AirBnB in Kelkheim last year on my way back home driving to the UK. Took the train service to Frankfurt and it uncannily reminded me of my local Romsey runner.

 

[DanielB]

Delay was due to massive overcrowding at Amsterdam on the Berlin bound IC train with conductor refusing to let the train leave till those sitting in the aisles and blocking doors got off and got the next train. Needless to say there were few volunteers so we left Amsterdam an hour late.

Ah, that situation. Luckily not that common.
Under normal circumstances this train could get delayed at the extremely full tracks between Amsterdam and Amersfoort, but has plenty of long layovers later on to pass the border on time.

 

[StephenHunter]

They're not very good at providing real-time information, especially on disruptions. When I went to Oberammergau, I didn't find out the last train from Murnau was a replacement bus until I got there.

 

[nwales58]

They're not very good at providing real-time information, especially on disruptions.

Also cancellations may not appear on the platform or on app real time until AFTER the train has (not) departed.
On a Sunday in June I was waiting at Dortmund for an S2, hourly due to other work. Nothing in platform. No incoming service in timetable. After departure time platform display started clocking up current time as departure time as usual, real time on web site and app showed it as departed on time and progressing. After about 5 minutes platform display changed to cancelled. So 2 hour gap which could have been announced beforehand. Wir bitten um Verständnis

 

[YorkshireBear]

I've given myself a 5.5 hour window later this year for a connection at Stuttgart after coming from Brussels via Frankfurt, connecting onto the sleeper so thought it was best to put a huge margin in. Fully expect to only have a 2 hour connection at Stuttgart.

Other connections I now plan on half an hour minimum as a norm to at least try and put some buffer in the itineraries.

Does anyone know if Thalys is suffering as much from Brussels to Cologne?

 

[AndrewP]

Sorry for not getting back to my own thread! Thank you for all the comments and the advice on delay / repay.

Seems like my experiences were very much the norm which is a real shame - the German Efficiency Myth strikes again!

As with any big organisation there were some excellent people in DB and the National Express trains from Cologne Airport were very good.

One interesting and sweet thing I did see was the coin operated model railway layout in Koln HBF which just appealed

 

[yorksrob]

Well, however bad it is, it can't be worse than this country's fares set up.

 

[fandroid]

I agree with much of what has been described. The only thing I would add is that it's still not as bad and unreliable as flying! 1 hour delays there are commonplace and on internal routes the frequency is awful, so missed connections mean at least a 2 hour wait, if you are lucky.

 

[TravellingPhil]

We're taking trains all the way to Narvik and back in October, and it's the German legs I've had to plan the most carefully. I've had to ensure that we end each day in Germany in a location, with a hotel booked, that should be easily reachable should things go wrong. For example, after a night in Amsterdam, I could've continued into Denmark on the way up but have felt it best to end the day in Hamburg and continue next day.

Likewise coming home, it was tempting to connect onto a Eurostar when we reach Brussels after changing at Koln. But have played it safe and booked a hotel in Brussels and have booked a Eurostar the following day.

Of course, things could go wrong anywhere in any country on our journey, but sadly it's Germany that has given me the most thought about strategic overnight stops.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We're taking trains all the way to Narvik and back in October, and it's the German legs I've had to plan the most carefully. I've had to ensure that we end each day in Germany in a location, with a hotel booked, that should be easily reachable should things go wrong. For example, after a night in Amsterdam, I could've continued into Denmark on the way up but have felt it best to end the day in Hamburg and continue next day.

Likewise coming home, it was tempting to connect onto a Eurostar when we reach Brussels after changing at Koln. But have played it safe and booked a hotel in Brussels and have booked a Eurostar the following day.

Of course, things could go wrong anywhere in any country on our journey, but sadly it's Germany that has given me the most thought about strategic overnight stops.

It's really interesting, I am doing Bodo in March and I am doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason!

While slightly frustrating, it is at least comforting to plan it this was and feel a bit more confident about the journey.