Remaining Effects of Covid

[nw1]

I've knowingly had Sars-Cov-2 just the once, in November 2021, this was when self-isolation was still mandatory and I had many of the symptoms. It was like a moderate to bad cold; I've had many worse colds/flu in the past 20 years. The only time I've been really ill with a virus in my adult life was in December 1999 when, as a 20-something, I had the "millennium flu" and spent 2 or 3 days in bed.

I haven't knowingly had it since, but I may have had it several times as I've had several very minor colds/sinus symptoms in the intervening 2 years. I don't know. Maybe they were Sars-Cov-2, maybe they were some other virus.

However I don't really see the need to test every time you have cold/flu like symptoms, especially mild ones. It's disproportionate to continually live a lifestyle of testing and self-isolation just because you might pass it on to someone more vulnerable. Every virus has that risk. The (very low) risk to the population as a whole is simply not worth living a lifestyle of continual testing to find out if it's Sars-Cov-2 or something else, and self-isolation (with the associated disruption) if it's positive.

Instead, I tend to follow the "if you have a fever, don't unnecessarily mix with other people" rule.

Interestingly, since the start of Covid I've only had one "moderate to bad" cold, and that was Sars-Cov-2. In a normal year I'd get at least one "bad" cold, sometimes two (often at both ends of the winter season, one in Oct/Nov and the other in Feb/Mar) but for whatever reason that hasn't happened since - and long may it continue. I've made no attempt at social distancing since around the start of 2022. Is there any evidence that either Sars-Cov-2 or the vaccines improve general immunity to cold-like viruses?

 

[DustyBin]

Mask wearing in public is pretty rare now, probably back to the level it was pre-covid when occasionally you'd see one (almost always an East Asian).

It is rare, I agree.

However (putting East Asians aside), I see at least one wearer a week, usually in Sainsbury’s. Prior to covid I saw none; people simply didn’t wear them (unless they were attempting to blag the currency exchange!).

People wearing FFP3 masks are clearly trying to mitigate some kind of risk, real or perceived. I obviously don’t know their circumstances, but tend to presume that having gone to the expense of buying FFP3s they have their reasons. People wearing surgical masks, bits of cloth etc. can only be doing so for psychological reasons, i.e. they’re fearful and want (as previously said) a “comfort blanket”. That is actually quite sad, to me anyway.

 

[zero]

. People wearing surgical masks, bits of cloth etc. can only be doing so for psychological reasons, i.e. they’re fearful and want (as previously said) a “comfort blanket”. That is actually quite sad, to me anyway.

Or maybe just misguided that such masks are effective

 

[Peter Sarf]

Why pity? How does it affect you?

That you care says more about you than the mask wearer.

When I see someone wearing a mask I tend to give them more space. My assumption is they are more at risk if they catch Covid (or anything else) so deserve a bit more breathing space. I am not sure the mask protects them but it signalls to me they want more protection.

Then again in the queue at the supermarket I got edgy about the person right behind me coughing and not covering their mouth - would have liked them to wear a basic mask to cut down on the nomber of particles heading my way !.

Let us not forget that dentists and staff in operating theatres have work masks for decades. My point is they must think they are helping to reduce the spread of infection from themselves regardless of Covid19.

I've knowingly had Sars-Cov-2 just the once, in November 2021, this was when self-isolation was still mandatory and I had many of the symptoms. It was like a moderate to bad cold; I've had many worse colds/flu in the past 20 years. The only time I've been really ill with a virus in my adult life was in December 1999 when, as a 20-something, I had the "millennium flu" and spent 2 or 3 days in bed.

I haven't knowingly had it since, but I may have had it several times as I've had several very minor colds/sinus symptoms in the intervening 2 years. I don't know. Maybe they were Sars-Cov-2, maybe they were some other virus.

However I don't really see the need to test every time you have cold/flu like symptoms, especially mild ones. It's disproportionate to continually live a lifestyle of testing and self-isolation just because you might pass it on to someone more vulnerable. Every virus has that risk. The (very low) risk to the population as a whole is simply not worth living a lifestyle of continual testing to find out if it's Sars-Cov-2 or something else, and self-isolation (with the associated disruption) if it's positive.

Instead, I tend to follow the "if you have a fever, don't unnecessarily mix with other people" rule.

Interestingly, since the start of Covid I've only had one "moderate to bad" cold, and that was Sars-Cov-2. In a normal year I'd get at least one "bad" cold, sometimes two (often at both ends of the winter season, one in Oct/Nov and the other in Feb/Mar) but for whatever reason that hasn't happened since - and long may it continue. I've made no attempt at social distancing since around the start of 2022. Is there any evidence that either Sars-Cov-2 or the vaccines improve general immunity to cold-like viruses?

There is definitely many different ways people are effected by Covid-19. I cannot have the vaccinations but I am confident as I have had Covid once badly (but nowhere near hospitalisation) and once so mild I only isolated and drank lots of water. I have never really had Flu but I respect my partenrs desire to have the Flu jab and suffer the mild side effects. Incidentally she has shown no side effects from the Covid jab and sometimes we cannot even determine where the needle went in. I have to be wary of what I pass on to my partner as she has not shaken off her long Covid but I cannot be bothered with masks anymore. I do avoid crowded trains etc but then I don't mind missing out on the claustrophobia any way !.

I suspect I have not had a common cold (maybe Flu) since before Covid19. Possibly this is because the Covid19 precautions have made life harder for other Viruses.

So one of the remaining effects is a higher level of caution among a shrinking number of people as time goes by. Covid19 is now endemic and the number of severe cases has gone down to manageable levels. So there is no need to spread the load on the NHS anymore.

 

[bahnause]

People wearing FFP3 masks are clearly trying to mitigate some kind of risk, real or perceived.

I prefer them, because thy feel more comfortable them most of the cheaper alternatives. The rubber bands are usually a bit thicker and don't feel like they are cutting the ears off. A normal surgical mask would do the trick for me otherwise.

 

[Bantamzen]

Let us not forget that dentists and staff in operating theatres have work masks for decades. My point is they must think they are helping to reduce the spread of infection from themselves regardless of Covid19.

Yes they have, but not as protection against viruses.

 

[yorksrob]

When I see someone wearing a mask. My eyebrows raise a little, but I have no negative opinion.

Too many important things to worry about.

 

[island]

Sorry but one or two people is not proper peer reviewing, needs other groups to come up with similar results for it to hold water. Afraid I'm not convinced.

Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world, and with due respect, your opinion of its peer review process is nonsense. It does not have just "one or two" people peer reviewing.

 

[Bald Rick]

So to be honest I'm not sure what your point is?

My point is, that as much as I dislike wearing a mask, when I had Covid (badly) a couple of months ago, if I had had to go out to somewhere where there were lots of people (eg catching a bus to the doctors, or in a supermarket), I would have worn one. Simply because I would want to reduce the risk of others catching what was, to me, a pretty bloody horrible experience.

I don’t know if I would do the same with ‘regular’ flu, as I haven’t had that for over 15 years. Or indeed any other illness.

 

[yorksrob]

My point is, that as much as I dislike wearing a mask, when I had Covid (badly) a couple of months ago, if I had had to go out to somewhere where there were lots of people (eg catching a bus to the doctors, or in a supermarket), I would have worn one. Simply because I would want to reduce the risk of others catching what was, to me, a pretty bloody horrible experience.

I don’t know if I would do the same with ‘regular’ flu, as I haven’t had that for over 15 years. Or indeed any other illness.

Aye, that's a fair point I can empathise with.

 

[Richard Scott]

Nature is one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world, and with due respect, your opinion of its peer review process is nonsense. It does not have just "one or two" people peer reviewing.

Well then it needs to be more specific as it said words along the lines of thank you to peer reviewer(s) that implies at least one and maybe more but not a large number. If there were many then it needs to change what it says. So thank you for telling me what I wrote was nonsense but only responding to what I read.
If it is so prestigious then it needs to be careful before printing articles like that. I may not be a world renowned scientist but I have more than enough intelligence to work out when articles like this come along that they're not really very credible and doesn't exactly fill me with confidence when said publications include said articles.

 

[philosopher]

My point is, that as much as I dislike wearing a mask, when I had Covid (badly) a couple of months ago, if I had had to go out to somewhere where there were lots of people (eg catching a bus to the doctors, or in a supermarket), I would have worn one. Simply because I would want to reduce the risk of others catching what was, to me, a pretty bloody horrible experience.

I don’t know if I would do the same with ‘regular’ flu, as I haven’t had that for over 15 years. Or indeed any other illness.

I do get the impression that if you had regular flu, you would be too unwell to even go to the supermarket! This of course could explain why flu does not spread that much compared to colds and indeed Covid.

 

[Bantamzen]

My point is, that as much as I dislike wearing a mask, when I had Covid (badly) a couple of months ago, if I had had to go out to somewhere where there were lots of people (eg catching a bus to the doctors, or in a supermarket), I would have worn one. Simply because I would want to reduce the risk of others catching what was, to me, a pretty bloody horrible experience.

I don’t know if I would do the same with ‘regular’ flu, as I haven’t had that for over 15 years. Or indeed any other illness.

Well my younger sister died of complications following a bad bout of flu. In fact at least half a million people a year die from it in the UK. So that can be equally as bad as covid, yet we have never treated it as we did the former. Why?

And here is the problem. Covid we were told was something new, unique, terrifying, so utterly dangerous that we had to lock ourselves down, throw bits of cloth over our faces and treat each other like we were killers. Put simply it was a stupid, crazy, and worst still damaging response. And the best bit is that none of it worked. For all our hiding and mask wearing the virus still spread. Which is exactly what many of us predicted when restrictions were announced. As someone who works with data I respect theories, but pay more attention to results. And the results say flimsy masks didn't work.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I do get the impression that if you had regular flu, you would be too unwell to even go to the supermarket! This of course could explain why flu does not spread that much compared to colds and indeed Covid.

Depends how badly Covid gets you. First time I had it I was not going anywhere - totally out.

TBH that means that if I get Cold or Flu (that could be Covid) even mildly for me I probably ought to be careful not to give what ever it is to someone who gets hit harder.

 

[Bald Rick]

And the best bit is that none of it worked.

How do you know?

 

[Bantamzen]

How do you know?

Simple, the virus is still here. I would have thought that was obvious?

 

[Bald Rick]

Simple, the virus is still here. I would have thought that was obvious?

But it’s not about elimination. It’s about reducing the spread.

 

[Bantamzen]

But it’s not about elimination. It’s about reducing the spread.

And saving the NHS, don't forget that bit. But did masks do any of that? Does anyone really believe that those blue bits of cloth really slow anything? The reality is probably not.

 

[danm14]

Well my younger sister died of complications following a bad bout of flu. In fact at least half a million people a year die from it in the UK.

This is utter nonsense.

In the 20 years from 2000 to 2019, there were between 550,000 and 620,000 deaths in the UK each year from all causes. It is abject lies to suggest that 80-90% of annual deaths in the UK are from flu.

According to the ONS, in England and Wales, there were 1,598 deaths due to flu in 2018, and 1,223 in 2019.

 

[Bantamzen]

This is utter nonsense.

In the 20 years from 2000 to 2019, there were between 550,000 and 620,000 deaths in the UK each year from all causes. It is abject lies to suggest that 80-90% of annual deaths in the UK are from flu.

No you are right, I misread the numbers. My apologies. But tens of thousands of people do die each year from flu, but do we panic?

 

[danm14]

No you are right, I misread the numbers. My apologies. But tens of thousands of people do die each year from flu, but do we panic?

I fully agree with you on that matter.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well my younger sister died of complications following a bad bout of flu. In fact at least half a million people a year die from it in the UK. So that can be equally as bad as covid, yet we have never treated it as we did the former. Why?

And here is the problem. Covid we were told was something new, unique, terrifying, so utterly dangerous that we had to lock ourselves down, throw bits of cloth over our faces and treat each other like we were killers. Put simply it was a stupid, crazy, and worst still damaging response. And the best bit is that none of it worked. For all our hiding and mask wearing the virus still spread. Which is exactly what many of us predicted when restrictions were announced. As someone who works with data I respect theories, but pay more attention to results. And the results say flimsy masks didn't work.

The precautions were really about the large number of people who were going to get Covid badly - a larger number than the NHS has life support equipment to help them through to recovery. We were never going to eliminate Covid but because it was a new virus there was going to be an initial peak of serious cases until everyone was used to it (like Flu) or had a vaccine. The precautions were about spreading the load over a longer period of time.

No you are right, I misread the numbers. My apologies. But tens of thousands of people do die each year from flu, but do we panic?

You do panic when you or someone you know is old or frail. And remember we have had vaccines for Flu for a long time, would we panic more without those Flu vaccines in a similar way as we did when there was no vaccine for Covid ?.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone really believe that those blue bits of cloth really slow anything?

Yes, lots of people do. Especially medical professionals. Eg Surgeons.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes, lots of people do. Especially medical professionals. Eg Surgeons.

No they don't. Surgeons don't wear masks because of the risks of viral spread.

 

[Eyersey468]

Yes, lots of people do. Especially medical professionals. Eg Surgeons.

If flimsy bits of blue cloth are so effective at reducing the spread of viruses why does it often say on the packaging not designed to stop the spread of viruses? (Or words to that effect)

 

[Richard Scott]

Depends how badly Covid gets you. First time I had it I was not going anywhere - totally out.

TBH that means that if I get Cold or Flu (that could be Covid) even mildly for me I probably ought to be careful not to give what ever it is to someone who gets hit harder.

If you can go outside with the flu you don't have the flu!

 

[ChrisC]

If you can go outside with the flu you don't have the flu!

Completely agree. I’m not someone who is ill very often and very rarely had any time off work through illness. I‘ve only had the flu 3 times during my life and each time it resulted in me being in bed for at least a week and even moving around within the house to go to the bathroom or to get a drink was a struggle. The 2nd time was the worst in the early 1980’s when I was in my mid 20’s. I had 2 weeks off work in January and I can remember it being well into the summer before I felt 100% well again.
I’ve not been aware of having had Covid, but I’m one of those people who never took test.

 

[nw1]

Completely agree. I’m not someone who is ill very often and very rarely had any time off work through illness. I‘ve only had the flu 3 times during my life and each time it resulted in me being in bed for at least a week and even moving around within the house to go to the bathroom or to get a drink was a struggle.

Thankfully I've never had anything that badly.

I never know exactly what is "flu" but my assumption, possibly wrong, is that if you have a high fever and don't want to eat, it's flu, otherwise it's just a cold. I had what I suspect was flu in February 2019, as for a couple of days I didn't want to eat much - it definitely felt worse than an average cold. Also it came on very suddenly, I went from feeling OK to feeling ill in about an hour, and that's unusual (for me) for a cold.

The thing I had in Dec 1999 does stand out for its sheer awfulness though, I spent Christmas Eve to Boxing Day in bed and felt a bit ropey for a further two days. The whole thing was over in a week, though, even then, certainly all traces had vanished by New Year's Eve.

After-effects lasting from January to the summer sounds distinctly nasty... thankfully I've never had any viral illness with effects lasting more than a week, or at least I don't think I have. I go through periods of feeling tired sometimes but I suspect that's unrelated!

Oddly no-one I was staying with caught it. I think I caught it from a friend 20-years-odd older than me, who didn't seem to get it very badly, so it's odd it affected me so badly as a (very fit) 20-something.

Probably the worst things I had were during childhood. I do remember having 'something' in March 1984 which resulted in me taking a week or so off school. And a few years before that I had the chicken pox, followed by German measles immediately afterwards...

And saving the NHS, don't forget that bit. But did masks do any of that? Does anyone really believe that those blue bits of cloth really slow anything? The reality is probably not.

I'd guess that @yorkie knows what they're talking about on this matter, i.e. only FFP3 masks are effective. I don't know myself, but as a forum administrator who seems to read into this subject quite extensively, I suspect they wouldn't put out false or half-baked information.

 

[yorkie]

Depends how badly Covid gets you. First time I had it I was not going anywhere - totally out.

TBH that means that if I get Cold or Flu (that could be Covid) even mildly for me I probably ought to be careful not to give what ever it is to someone who gets hit harder.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever; what are you basing this claim on?

According to the ONS, in England and Wales, there were 1,598 deaths due to flu in 2018, and 1,223 in 2019.

But are deaths from flu measured in the same was as with Covid?

(That's a rhetorical question; we all know the answer!)

It seems very plausible, possibly even quite likely, that SARS-CoV-2 is actually intrinsically / inherently less dangerous than 'flu but what has made SARS-CoV-2 have a much higher death rate during the pandemic is the fact this is a novel virus in a naive population.

What we experienced during the COVID pandemic appears to be similar to what is now believed to be a pandemic of what we now call HCoV OC43 around 1889, which at the time was simply labelled as 'flu, as we didn't know the difference back then between coronaviruses and influenza viruses.

Also these pandemics were not as devastating, particularly for younger people, as the influenza pandemic of 1918.

I'd guess that @yorkie knows what they're talking about on this matter, i.e. only FFP3 masks are effective. I don't know myself, but as a forum administrator who seems to read into this subject quite extensively, I suspect they wouldn't put out false or half-baked information.

It's all been debated before; FFP3 masks are actually designed to filter particles small enough to have an effect. Flimsy, loose fitting masks are not. However for FFP3s to be truly effective they must be properly worn, stored, handled and regularly replaced.. For the details, see previous posts.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'd guess that @yorkie knows what they're talking about on this matter, i.e. only FFP3 masks are effective. I don't know myself, but as a forum administrator who seems to read into this subject quite extensively, I suspect they wouldn't put out false or half-baked information.

Indeed, in fact in the conversation he kindly set up for supporting people who were fed up with, or seriously impacted by the restrictions this was discussed at length. The general view there was that pretty much none of the restrictions, including mask wearing would do much good. In fact if we think the back the government pretty much said as much when they were mandated. They were required to "help people feel safe". Feel safe, not be safe. Let's face it even the WHO originally recommended not mandating their use as it would adversely affect behaviours, but once enough governments had ignored that advice they suddenly changed track without offering even a slice of evidence. The whole thing was a farce and the best argument from those in favour was that they did it in Eastern Asia, and that surgeons also wore them. Flimsy at best, quite frankly dishonest at worst.