Ticket Office closures no longer going ahead

[TheSmiths82]

I think this is a little cynical because a lot of the closures would have happened just before the election and it would have been very visible evidence of the how the country has declined since this government have been in power. That said I fully support the decision to u-turn on this, however I am still flabbergasted it was even considered in the first place.

 

[dk1]

https://twitter.com/HuwMerriman/status/1719349737378230669

Rt Hon getting a rightfully thrashing on social media replies.

The twaddle and spin the man is spouting would make anyone not so clued up think those nasty TOCs came up with the plan and he is the voice of the people. No doubt the TOCs will roll over and take the flack.

 

[rg177]

Spoke to a friend this morning who's an accessibility manager at a TOC. General mood is utter fury at having to waste time and money slapping together these plans on DfT orders only to then get gaslighted into being blamed for the whole saga.

He's naturally pleased that it's been called off, but what an absolutely pointless exercise in infuriating passengers and staff at just about every level.

 

[father_jack]

Agreed
In a way they have already saved themselves quite a bit of money since making the proposals, all those (I should imagine) hundreds or even thousands of Staff who decided to resign or leave and get other jobs of their own volition, thinking that their current job won't exist within 6 - 9 Months anyway.
Then, surprise of surprises, the plan is scrapped but you can bet your bottom dollar that there won't be a restart of the Recruitment Program to replace who they lost. It'll be a case of "You'll have to make do with who you have now".
So I think you will still see large stations with a supposed 0600 - 2100 staffing being forced to Shut at 1300 because of lack of back shift staff.
People who resign or leave of their own free will don't make headline news. Mass Redundancies on the other hand....

Like Manchester Piccadilly ticket office being closed at 1625 last Friday evening.

 

[ExRes]

Unfortunately this isn't the case Imo. The regime is playing to their voter base, (ie the daily mail types) who absolutely dispise the unions, and would quite happily see thousands redundant in order to score political points against unions

What absolute and utter twaddle, I've voted Conservative since I made the mistake of voting for Blair and subsequently will never vote Labour again, I do not read the Daily Mail ever, I only despise the Unions when they deserve despising, likewise I despise the Government when they deserve despising and I get no enjoyment from anyone losing their job, although I dare say I could think of the odd candidate, perhaps you should buy a brush that isn't quite so wide and all encompassing

 

[bramling]

Agreed. Sensible reforms in this area are overdue, and could so easily have been tabled. This mess was anything but, and I’m pleased common sense has prevailed.



Up until a few months ago I would have agreed with @bramling ‘s stance. I now increasingly share your view that there isn’t an overall coherent strategy here, because that would imply at least a basic level of competence on behalf of the government, whereas it’s increasingly clear they’re just pivoting in the wind.

Oh I completely agree I don’t think there’s any strategy at all now. It may be the case that certain voices are now making themselves heard within the Conservative party in terms of trying to at least make some attempt at limiting next year’s damage, but I’m not even sure about that. I do think there was an element of nastiness when this was first proposed, though. The likes of Johnson in particular seem to gloat on this sort of thing, and Truss seemed to pick that up.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If Berwick-upon-Tweed ticket office had closed, passengers would have been expected to travel 60 miles in either direction to access the full range of LNER products. And the Passenger Assistance service service there would have been at risk.

It's not 60 miles to Dunbar is it?

 

[Busaholic]

It's not 60 miles to Dunbar is it?

Return journey?

 

[185]

Are we now seeing a rift between the politicians and those DfT bosses who absolutely swore blind the railway had to close them?

Reminds me of the desperate clinging on of FirstGroup/TPE who the DfT Directors were seemingly making excuses for ...until a sudden u-turn led by the secretary and minister.

IMO the unpopularity of the DfT-led escapades (modernisation etc) may have added to the recent voting mood.

 

[jkkne]

If Berwick-upon-Tweed ticket office had closed, passengers would have been expected to travel 60 miles in either direction to access the full range of LNER products. And the Passenger Assistance service service there would have been at risk.

Why would passenger assistance be at risk? LNER said it would be fully staffed from close to end?
This all feels delaying the inevitable in some areas and cuts will just come from somewhere else, especially in a station where just 4% of tickets are bought at the office

 

[Mawkie]

especially in a station where just 4% of tickets are bought at the office

I have no doubt they are the "official" figures. However, my colleagues in ticket offices tell me they print a lot more tickets that have been bought online.

And the 4% doesn't account for the advice given hourly, and reassurance given to vulnerable passengers, which is not easily measurable.

So it's not really a helpful figure to use.

 

[josh-j]

U-turn incoming it seems:

Plans to close rail ticket offices in England scrapped

The government tells train firms to ditch the controversial closures, sparking anger from rail bosses.

www.bbc.co.uk

Terrible reporting there making out like these proposals are all the fault of the TOCs, rather than the reality of them being told to come up with closure plans by the government. No wonder lots of people think everything wrong with the railway is down to TOCs rather than mismanagement and planned decline from above...

 

[greyman42]

Glad to hear the planned cuts are dead.

As am I, but it it seems that a lot of people are disappointed by this news.

He's naturally pleased that it's been called off, but what an absolutely pointless exercise in infuriating passengers and staff at just about every level.

I wonder what percentage of passengers were "infuriated"?

 

[dk1]

As am I, but it it seems that a lot of people are disappointed by this news.

I can’t comprehend why anybody apart from those who proposed this ill thought out disaster would be disappointed

So the government should just spend money it doesn't have on things which the vast majority of people don't use ?

Over 80% of train tickets *aren't* bought from the ticket office now - at what point would you say a ticket office is no longer required ?

It’s the bullish headstrong all out way they went about it. Of course there needs to be some trimming but this was ridiculously over the top.

 

[greyman42]

I can’t comprehend why anybody apart from those who proposed this ill thought out disaster would be disappointed

I agree but there seems to be a lot of posters who seem disappointed that they cannot fight the government other this anymore.

 

[BrianW]

Well, today is Dominic Cummings’ big day out at the covid enquiry isn’t it?



And Mark Harper leading the way. Blue Adair, perhaps

A good day to bury good news
I'm sure that the Govt Comms Dept/ Tory HQ has still got some notion of news management.
This was always the intended outcome- unable to close ticket offices but still needing/ wanting to make 'savings'.
So 'highly paid' drivers and 'little used' trains will have to go. Expect another 'consultation', with Daily Mail whipped up to 'bash the unions and their politically-motivated bosses' with Starmer challenged to 'speak up' against his 'paymasters'

 

[Djgr]

What absolute and utter twaddle, I've voted Conservative since I made the mistake of voting for Blair and subsequently will never vote Labour again, I do not read the Daily Mail ever, I only despise the Unions when they deserve despising, likewise I despise the Government when they deserve despising and I get no enjoyment from anyone losing their job, although I dare say I could think of the odd candidate, perhaps you should buy a brush that isn't quite so wide and all encompassing

So we can blame you for the breaking of Britain over the last twelve years. Well at least you're honest.

 

[BrianW]

I think this is a little cynical because a lot of the closures would have happened just before the election and it would have been very visible evidence of the how the country has declined since this government have been in power. That said I fully support the decision to u-turn on this, however I am still flabbergasted it was even considered in the first place.

The twaddle and spin the man is spouting would make anyone not so clued up think those nasty TOCs came up with the plan and he is the voice of the people. No doubt the TOCs will roll over and take the flack.

I think the TOCs had no choice. They have to go along with their political paymasters; they cannot afford to be seen to bite the hand that feeds them.
I hope Transport Focus have been well rewarded for accepting the poisoned chalice of analysing the thousands of free format responses and delivering to Government the answer they must have been expecting- a cynic might have said 'wanting'.
'Savings' will still be demanded from the 'inefficient rail industry'- expect fewer trains.

 

[DunsBus]

It's not 60 miles to Dunbar is it?

Nearest LNER stations to Berwick are Edinburgh Waverley and Newcastle, 60 miles each way. Dunbar is managed by ScotRail.

 

[Krokodil]

I dont think having staff on the concourse with tablets is neccessarily a bad thing, i dont see why people are so against this.

Because experience has shown that whenever changes to staff roles to "make them more accessible to the public" are implemented, the end result is always the opposite. See also: ex-London Underground booking office staff who certainly cannot be found roving the concourse and the downgrading of the dispatch staff at Manchester Airport such that customers can't ever find anyone to ask questions to these days.

Indeed. If the proposals were all more like Northern's (I mean, can say Whitehaven *really* justify one?) then I think it would have gone through with just a bit of murmuring. For instance if they had proposed to close all ticket offices at Category E or F stations (possibly with a few exceptions e.g. where a lot of older or disabled people use the station - Frinton or Grange-over-Sands would seem to spring to mind here) but retain them at Categories A to D, then that might have been acceptable to the country as a whole.

I gather that Avanti's scorched earth approach was following the guidance from the DfT. Northern went a bit rogue with the pragmatic approach.

In a way they have already saved themselves quite a bit of money since making the proposals, all those (I should imagine) hundreds or even thousands of Staff who decided to resign or leave and get other jobs of their own volition, thinking that their current job won't exist within 6 - 9 Months anyway.

How much have they lost in fares while booking office have been closed and gatelines left wide open?

So the government should just spend money it doesn't have on things which the vast majority of people don't use ?

The government spends money on lots of things that the vast majority of people don't use. I've never been in an ICU, and I'd like to bet that neither have most people.

Over 80% of train tickets *aren't* bought from the ticket office now - at what point would you say a ticket office is no longer required ?

At the point where the individual ticket office under consideration has few people using it. If the clerk spends the whole day twiddling their thumbs then fine. Many of the proposed closures however involved booking offices with long queues of people buying tickets and making enquiries. Percentage figures are misleading, a small percentage of sales at a major terminal is still a large number of sales. Using the nationwide figure is misleading too, saying that the booking office at X should be closed because the percentage of passengers who buy tickets from booking offices at WXYZ is low is wrong when the passengers at W, Y and Z don't have the option of a booking office.

Reminds me of the desperate clinging on of FirstGroup/TPE who the DfT Directors were seemingly making excuses for ...until a sudden u-turn led by the secretary and minister.

They only did that in a panic following the local election bloodbath.

 

[Signal_Box]

We can expect a furious response from our wonderful “the people first” government to gain back some credibility. Remind me has the industry wide dispute been resolved yet ?

 

[ExRes]

So we can blame you for the breaking of Britain over the last twelve years. Well at least you're honest.

Britain has been breaking for an awful lot longer then the last twelve years, those that haven't noticed or accepted that fact certainly need lessons in honesty and self awareness

 

[Kite159]

I bet there are some long serving ticket office staff who are close to retirement age being a bit unhappy as they would hoping to maybe get a nice payout when made redundant before 'retiring'.

Some of the arguments which were put forward that those unstaffed stations when the ticket office closes will suddenly become crime hotspots were a bit over the time. Some stations already are fully unstaffed or unstaffed after a certain time (i.e after 7pm when the ticket office closes + other station staff finish) which are not crime hotspots.

Just make the TVMs more usable for some passengers, I was at Birmingham New Street yesterday around 09:25, queue for the ticket office was out of the door with the bank of TVMs available [where thankfully I could buy a Daytripper in under a minute as I'm getting used to the layout of those TVMs]

 

[dk1]

I bet there are some long serving ticket office staff who are close to retirement age being a bit unhappy as they would hoping to maybe get a nice payout when made redundant before 'retiring'.

Which is made even more surreal because many of these staff who hoped for voluntary severance last year were refused it strangely.

 

[jon0844]

What absolute and utter twaddle, I've voted Conservative since I made the mistake of voting for Blair and subsequently will never vote Labour again, I do not read the Daily Mail ever, I only despise the Unions when they deserve despising, likewise I despise the Government when they deserve despising and I get no enjoyment from anyone losing their job, although I dare say I could think of the odd candidate, perhaps you should buy a brush that isn't quite so wide and all encompassing

So Blair did something to change your mind, but now after 13 years you won't be moved to change your mind ever again?

I see plenty of MAGA supporters saying they'd vote Trump even if he was jailed or stood on the White House lawn and murdered someone, but I didn't know we had people so 'loyal' in the UK. And here it isn't even a particular person but a whole party.

Of course you can support the Tories and if you've profited from things like Covid or Brexit then fine, but it does strike me as rather odd how you've lost the ability to adapt to current circumstances.

 

[Kite159]

Which is made even more surreal because many of these staff who hoped for voluntary severance last year were refused it strangely.

"We will have to pay this much? Reject it"

 

[dk1]

"We will have to pay this much? Reject it"

One of our station managers was so worried the night before the announcement that he’d lose a large proportion of his most experienced staff only to be in shock next day when not a single volunteer had been chosen.

 

[Edsmith]

What absolute and utter twaddle, I've voted Conservative since I made the mistake of voting for Blair and subsequently will never vote Labour again, I do not read the Daily Mail ever, I only despise the Unions when they deserve despising, likewise I despise the Government when they deserve despising and I get no enjoyment from anyone losing their job, although I dare say I could think of the odd candidate, perhaps you should buy a brush that isn't quite so wide and all encompassing

I totally agree with you that's a load of twaddle and like yourself I don't read the Daily Mail and I just don't understand what the fixation is some people have about it.

Anyway surely this whole ticket office closure debate is going to surface again in a year or two regardless of who is in government then?

Unfortunately, the damage has already been done in some places.

At one of my local stations we had a lady in the booking office that was everything you could ever want. Courteous, helpful, knowledgable and adaptable. If people came in during busy periods with complex queries she would take their phone number and call them at home. She knew all the rovers and splits that could save ££s, happy to excess tickets, book seat reservations, upgrades, sleeper berths etc, and when things went wrong she would always be ready to liaise with control, organise taxis, co-ordinate the buses and offer help and advice.

Sadly, the uncertainty of her position caused by the outrageous proposals has forced her to move on to another job. I drove past the station one day last week and the ticket office was in darkness with a hand written closure sign.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

Wouldn't she have been in line for redundancy payment? Either way I don't see how that makes it an absolute disgrace?

 

[Krokodil]

Remind me has the industry wide dispute been resolved yet ?

I'd just like to point out that the dispute isn't quite industry-wide. It doesn't affect Scotrail, Transport for Wales, Merseyrail, open access operators, freight...

The operators which are affected all have one thing in common of course.

 

[Signal_Box]

I'd just like to point out that the dispute isn't quite industry-wide. It doesn't affect Scotrail, Transport for Wales, Merseyrail, open access operators, freight...

The operators which are affected all have one thing in common of course.

Well no, funny how those select few aren’t puppets, but industry wide enough.