Supermarkets discussion

[SteveM70]

In January of this year, the Co-op announced the end of its rewards scheme which gave a cash discount on Co-op branded products purchased plus the same amount to a nominated charity of the customers choice that had been arranged on their website. They are now setting up a master financial national system so charities do not lose out, but I am not sure how this will work. I took advantage of donating my entire rewards balance to my nominated charity.

Since the demise of the rewards system, mention is made of dividend points, but these are said to carry no financial value, so what on earth are they for?

Couple of points

1 - it was never a cash discount on branded products, it was 2% accrued into an online wallet which could then be redeemed when the customer chose

2 - the Coop is under unprecedented pressure on price *, and they see this step as being necessary to try and support prices

3 - they have a plan for the charity support going forward, and having spoken to someone who knows some of the detail it sounds good

4 - traditionally the Coop paid out a divi and it was pro-rata to spend; it could make a reappearance but I’d say it was unlikely



* the most geographically diverse store estate including Scottish islands, Scilly Isles, Northern Ireland etc; the smallest average store size of all the major players; trying to maintain an extensive range which means average sales per product per store per day is lower than anyone else’s; all this adds up to a higher cost to serve than anyone else.

(As a guide on the slow moving range, when we implemented SAP there was a module that could alert for potential gaps on shelves but stock out the back, where there was a positive stock quantity on the system but no sales for 30 / 45 / 60 / 120 minutes so possibly an empty shelf, but the analysis showed only one product - 2 litre semi skimmed milk - sold quickly enough to make it worthwhile. For everything else sales were so slow that the system would endlessly throw out false alarms)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Brown eggs in Sainsburys today…

Yes, as it happens I got some eggs in Sainsburys yesterday too. And it turned out they'd swapped back to brown. Which I guess is evidence for the theory that the white eggs weren't deliberate, they were simply, Sainsburys sourcing eggs from anywhere they could while they were in short supply.

 

[Tester]

Possibly showing my age, but I can recall an era when, all else being equal, brown eggs cost more than white.

 

[Hadders]

1 - it was never a cash discount on branded products, it was 2% accrued into an online wallet which could then be redeemed when the customer chose

It was supposedly a 'share of the profits' when the membership scheme was relaunched in the 2000s. Points were awarded for spend across the 'family of businesses' witht he value of a point depending on the profit made. The scheme then moved onto the 'fixed rate' loyalty scheme.

2 - the Coop is under unprecedented pressure on price *, and they see this step as being necessary to try and support prices

The Co-op always claims it's under unprecedented pressure on price! To be fair they do have a very wide geographical spread of stores but historically they always had (and I suspect still do have) variable pricing where higher prices are charged in certain locations. For clarity they are not the only retailer who does this. Distribution costs are high when you're going to places like the Shetland Isles or Outer Hebridies but other locations will have lower cost to serve but have other costs that are higher (eg occupancy costs).

3 - they have a plan for the charity support going forward, and having spoken to someone who knows some of the detail it sounds good

That's good. I'd expect nothing less of an organisation like the Co-operative Group.

4 - traditionally the Coop paid out a divi and it was pro-rata to spend; it could make a reappearance but I’d say it was unlikely

A dividend is a share of the profits and historically was paid out by the Co-op based on the amount of trade carried out by each member. Historically purchases would be recorded in ledgers (when I was a co-op store manager if I had a pound for everyone who told me they could remember their granny's divi number I'd be a rich man!). In the 1970s it moved to dividend stamps prior to the dividend being withdrawn altogether in the 1980s. In 1997 the Dividend scheme was relaunched as a loyalty card scheme prior to moving to the points based system I mentioned above.

 

[AM9]

... A dividend is a share of the profits and historically was paid out by the Co-op based on the amount of trade carried out by each member. Historically purchases would be recorded in ledgers (when I was a co-op store manager if I had a pound for everyone who told me they could remember their granny's divi number I'd be a rich man!). In the 1970s it moved to dividend stamps prior to the dividend being withdrawn altogether in the 1980s. In 1997 the Dividend scheme was relaunched as a loyalty card scheme prior to moving to the points based system I mentioned above.

Over the years, my mum's and grandmother's Co-op number has served me well for pins and passcodes. Even if I revealed the source of the number, it would be quite difficult for a would-be fraudster to find out what it was and that is assuming that I hadn't munged it in it's passcode use, - yet being able to remember it myself is simple as it is almost hardwired into my brain.

 

[SteveM70]

The Co-op always claims it's under unprecedented pressure on price! To be fair they do have a very wide geographical spread of stores but historically they always had (and I suspect still do have) variable pricing where higher prices are charged in certain locations. For clarity they are not the only retailer who does this. Distribution costs are high when you're going to places like the Shetland Isles or Outer Hebridies but other locations will have lower cost to serve but have other costs that are higher (eg occupancy costs).

The "core" Coop stores (ie those operated by the Cooperative Group, approx 2,700 out of 4,000 and including a lot of the far-flung ones) have national pricing. The other 1,300 are the independent societies (Southern, Central England, Scotmid, Radstock etc) who set their own prices but are consistent across their stores, and the smallish number of franchisee operated stores who are legally required to have autonomy on pricing

 

[Hadders]

The "core" Coop stores (ie those operated by the Cooperative Group, approx 2,700 out of 4,000 and including a lot of the far-flung ones) have national pricing. The other 1,300 are the independent societies (Southern, Central England, Scotmid, Radstock etc) who set their own prices but are consistent across their stores, and the smallish number of franchisee operated stores who are legally required to have autonomy on pricing

So the Co-operative Group operates one national price across all stores? That's certainly changed in the last 10 years. When I worked for the Group there were at least four different price bands, sometimes more. There were a number of different factors that decided which price band a store was in.

 

[DelW]

Over the years, my mum's and grandmother's Co-op number has served me well for pins and passcodes. Even if I revealed the source of the number, it would be quite difficult for a would-be fraudster to find out what it was and that is assuming that I hadn't munged it in it's passcode use, - yet being able to remember it myself is simple as it is almost hardwiored into my brain.

I'm with you on that one. It must be well over sixty years since I last heard my mother say it, but it's still instant recall for me too. Always in the form of three pairs, each being a number between 10 and 99.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm with you on that one. It must be well over sixty years since I last heard my mother say it, but it's still instant recall for me too. Always in the form of three pairs, each being a number between 10 and 99.

I am old enough to remember the small and large sized blue and white Co-op stamps that you could stick in an album, which when full was able to be redeemed for goods, maybe cash as well.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A dividend is a share of the profits and historically was paid out by the Co-op based on the amount of trade carried out by each member. Historically purchases would be recorded in ledgers (when I was a co-op store manager if I had a pound for everyone who told me they could remember their granny's divi number I'd be a rich man!). In the 1970s it moved to dividend stamps prior to the dividend being withdrawn altogether in the 1980s. In 1997 the Dividend scheme was relaunched as a loyalty card scheme prior to moving to the points based system I mentioned above.

I'm with you on that one. It must be well over sixty years since I last heard my mother say it, but it's still instant recall for me too. Always in the form of three pairs, each being a number between 10 and 99.

The Langdale Co-op (Chapel Stile, Cumbria) was, and may still be, using their divi numbers! I remember shopping there whilst staying in the valley and another shopper stated their number to the till assistant. As an aside it was a non-local, I guess the staff knew all the local customers by name anyway.

 

[jon0844]

St Albans I see, that hotbed of criminality, where several members identify themselves as living. Any of those members care to comment?

The store on London Colney IS a hotbed of criminality, including the other stores on the retail park. Maybe easy access to and from the M25 helps.

 

[SteveM70]

So the Co-operative Group operates one national price across all stores? That's certainly changed in the last 10 years. When I worked for the Group there were at least four different price bands, sometimes more. There were a number of different factors that decided which price band a store was in.

There are probably a small number of exceptions - perhaps food to go at stores in the City etc - but the basic premise is national pricing. It’s a whole load simpler to administer as well as more equitable for customers

 

[dgl]

In regards to eggs I've had boxes of barn eggs from Tesco with both brown and white eggs, one thing I did notice is that I found the brown eggs to crack more "cleanly" and kept getting the shell in with the white ones.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I shall try it tomorrow!

I suspect it is at the one at Colney Fields by the M25, which is Sainsbury’s “model store” where they trial things, and not the one in St Albans proper (next to the Abbey).

But if it stops the automated announcement of “Will security please report to the spirits aisle” every minute or so, then i’m all for it. It will be interesting to see what they regard as decent Whisky.

(As an aside, I gather St Albans has one of the highest rates of shoplifting in supermarkets, due to being close to London, lower security levels, and ‘Theft tourism’. Guildford has the same problem AIUI.)

The store on London Colney IS a hotbed of criminality, including the other stores on the retail park. Maybe easy access to and from the M25 helps.

Using the power of the internet I see what you mean in terms of location.

1) They always blame outsiders, it's never the locals!
2) Disown the area as being part of St Albans, other side of the bypass innit.

Theft tourism you say? I'll get a coach day trip set up for Stoke-on-Trent's finest, give the local shop security an easier day.

 

[ChrisC]

Possibly showing my age, but I can recall an era when, all else being equal, brown eggs cost more than white.

Sorry back to the subject of eggs again!

I have lived most of my life in a relatively rural area, and have always had eggs from local farms, or from someone locally who just kept a few hens in their garden. Therefore buying eggs from a supermarket is something that I have very rarely done. All the eggs that I buy are brown and can come in a variety of sizes even within the same egg box. In addition to buying brown eggs I also prefer eggs with golden yolks.

I do remember, as a child, seeing trays of white eggs on market stalls and in butchers shops but we never had them. My mother and grandmother always called eggs which were not free range from a local producer ‘shop eggs’ and would never buy them.

 

[Typhoon]

I am old enough to remember the small and large sized blue and white Co-op stamps that you could stick in an album, which when full was able to be redeemed for goods, maybe cash as well.

I am old enough to remember the metal tokens that would be given when shopping at the Co-op. My grandmother would keep them in a jar. I do know that my mother would grumble most years as the divi would go down from the year before.

 

[dangie]

Our local Co-op closed some months ago. On Friday it reopened as a Tesco Express. It was due to open at 10.00am.

I drove past it at approx 09.45am, fifteen minutes before opening. There were queues at the door waiting for opening.

For Christ’s sake…… it is a Tesco Express….. not the Boxing Day Sales……

 

[JamesT]

Our local Co-op closed some months ago. On Friday it reopened as a Tesco Express. It was due to open at 10.00am.

I drove past it at approx 09.45am, fifteen minutes before opening. There were queues at the door waiting for opening.

For Christ’s sake…… it is a Tesco Express….. not the Boxing Day Sales……

When a Food Warehouse (ie big Iceland) opened here, they were offering vouchers for the first N through the door.

 

[Bald Rick]

I shall try it tomorrow!

I suspect it is at the one at Colney Fields by the M25, which is Sainsbury’s “model store” where they trial things, and not the one in St Albans proper (next to the Abbey).

But if it stops the automated announcement of “Will security please report to the spirits aisle” every minute or so, then i’m all for it. It will be interesting to see what they regard as decent Whisky.

(As an aside, I gather St Albans has one of the highest rates of shoplifting in supermarkets, due to being close to London, lower security levels, and ‘Theft tourism’. Guildford has the same problem AIUI.)

An update on the “AI cupboard”. They have been installed in the St Albans ‘proper’ branch by the Abbey.

There were three cupboards. One in the brandy section, one in the whiskey section, and one in the champagne section.

In all three, it was mid range stuff. For example, the whiskey cupboard contained only various sizes and types of Jack Daniel’s, in the £20-£30 range. Right next to it were open shelves with cheaper Bell’s, Grouse etc, and on the other side the single Malts, some in the £40-£50 range.

It was the same with the brandy, mid range in the cupboard, cheaper and more expensive stuff on the open shelves.

So it seems that either this is a trial, or that shoplifters have somewhat discerning tastebuds, but not gourmet standard.

Interestingly, all of the cupboards were fully stocked, whereas the open shelves had some gaps. I loitered for a couple of minutes and saw a couple of customers looking at the cupboards in slight bewilderment, and then choosing stuff from the open shelves, so I wonder if these cupboards will reduce sales as well as shoplifting.

My loitering evidently triggered the ”WILL A MEMBER OF STAFF PLEASE GO TO THE SPIRITS AISLE” announcement which played at least five times whilst I was there. To the obvious annoyance of the member of staff who was already there restocking the gin.

Whilst I was sorely tempted to use the tech to open the cupboard, take out some JD, and then stuff it in my jacket to prove a point… I couldn’t bring myself to do it. That stuff is awful. Besides I suspect Sainsbury’s RPIs are monitoring this thread…

 

[GusB]

So the Co-operative Group operates one national price across all stores? That's certainly changed in the last 10 years. When I worked for the Group there were at least four different price bands, sometimes more. There were a number of different factors that decided which price band a store was in.

It has been over 10 years now since I worked at the Coop, but there were different bands within the same town at that point. I was in the largest of the three stores (opened as a Coop), while the other two had come from the old Alldays estate. Both of those shops have now closed, but a new store has recently appeared and I'm fairly sure that it's dearer for certain items.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

In January of this year, the Co-op announced the end of its rewards scheme which gave a cash discount on Co-op branded products purchased plus the same amount to a nominated charity of the customers choice that had been arranged on their website. They are now setting up a master financial national system so charities do not lose out, but I am not sure how this will work. I took advantage of donating my entire rewards balance to my nominated charity.

Since the demise of the rewards system, mention is made of dividend points, but these are said to carry no financial value, so what on earth are they for?

I was told by a cashier that the points will still work for the charity donations and there will be more member discount offers ie differential pricing.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was told by a cashier that the points will still work for the charity donations and there will be more member discount offers ie differential pricing.

As I said earlier, when I heard of the changes in January, I donated all the reward points that I had been accruing to the current local charity that is the nominated one in my local area. Still, it's good to hear that the charities will still gain from what you say above.

 

[jon0844]

Whilst I was sorely tempted to use the tech to open the cupboard, take out some JD, and then stuff it in my jacket to prove a point… I couldn’t bring myself to do it. That stuff is awful. Besides I suspect Sainsbury’s RPIs are monitoring this thread…

I can't imagine there are that many given the urge by many supermarkets to cut staff to the bone. I can't speak for Sainsbury's, but at times Asda has one security guard on duty - and no plain clothed staff to work with them. Literally one person, who can't leave their post so are effectively useless. When I reported an aggressive beggar going up to people at the petrol station, I was told that if I thought it a problem I should call the police (and I did, because he wasn't interested and said he couldn't go even if he wanted to).

This is the same branch that seem to have empty shelves and cabinets, run out of trolleys, baskets and even carrier bags. For a month they had no till roll in any of their fuel pumps because they forgot to order the paper rolls.

If I can find this out, I am pretty sure shoplifters know how easy it is to steal from there - and that includes the trolleys and baskets!!! Just like WH Smith having no staff on the shop floor with a button to call for assistance, shoplifting is so easy and it seems funny that money is spent on tech to reduce it instead of having actual people on the ground.

 

[dgl]

It has been over 10 years now since I worked at the Coop, but there were different bands within the same town at that point. I was in the largest of the three stores (opened as a Coop), while the other two had come from the old Alldays estate. Both of those shops have now closed, but a new store has recently appeared and I'm fairly sure that it's dearer for certain items

In Portland and Weymouth there still are different societies represented, there are southern CO-OP's in Weston and Lanehouse with regular CO-OP's in Easton, Fortuneswell and Chickerell.

 

[PeterC]

I am old enough to remember the metal tokens that would be given when shopping at the Co-op. My grandmother would keep them in a jar. I do know that my mother would grumble most years as the divi would go down from the year before.

I remember a few of those at the back of a drawer when I was a lad. I never knew what they were for.

In the store I remember the cashier having a row of sliding pins to set the number before ringing up the sale. Trading stamps were a big thing in the 60s and the coop ones could be redeemed by non members but you had a bonus if you were a member.

 

[takno]

An update on the “AI cupboard”. They have been installed in the St Albans ‘proper’ branch by the Abbey.

There were three cupboards. One in the brandy section, one in the whiskey section, and one in the champagne section.

In all three, it was mid range stuff. For example, the whiskey cupboard contained only various sizes and types of Jack Daniel’s, in the £20-£30 range. Right next to it were open shelves with cheaper Bell’s, Grouse etc, and on the other side the single Malts, some in the £40-£50 range.

It was the same with the brandy, mid range in the cupboard, cheaper and more expensive stuff on the open shelves.

So it seems that either this is a trial, or that shoplifters have somewhat discerning tastebuds, but not gourmet standard.

Interestingly, all of the cupboards were fully stocked, whereas the open shelves had some gaps. I loitered for a couple of minutes and saw a couple of customers looking at the cupboards in slight bewilderment, and then choosing stuff from the open shelves, so I wonder if these cupboards will reduce sales as well as shoplifting.

My loitering evidently triggered the ”WILL A MEMBER OF STAFF PLEASE GO TO THE SPIRITS AISLE” announcement which played at least five times whilst I was there. To the obvious annoyance of the member of staff who was already there restocking the gin.

Whilst I was sorely tempted to use the tech to open the cupboard, take out some JD, and then stuff it in my jacket to prove a point… I couldn’t bring myself to do it. That stuff is awful. Besides I suspect Sainsbury’s RPIs are monitoring this thread…

Spirits are mostly being stolen for resale rather than personal consumption. I would guess that the Jack is the stuff with the worst shoplifting problem. If you can get a bottle of Jack for a tenner then happy days, but even a tenner for some suspect bottle of whatever single malt the shoplifter grabbed is probably not worth it.

Not that I'd ever buy a bottle of spirits from a bloke in a pub, and in indeed I don't go in the type of pubs where they're on offer anymore, but you get my meaning.

 

[jon0844]

I never understood why Boots put things like hair straighteners and other high-value items easy to sell on Facebook Marketplace near the entrances. By all means put an empty box, or a dummy model, but people literally walk in and pick up these things and walk out.

I've seen amazingly brazen thefts in Welwyn Garden City, from Waitrose, to Boots, to Sainsbury's. People just lift and walk out, not even attempting to conceal things. I suppose others might be doing that too and getting away with even more, but these days it seems the trend is to just help yourself because you've been told over and over on social media that 'they can't touch you'.

So, once again, stores need staff and the powers to detain. At the moment they can try and block someone's exit and demand an item is handed back, but little more. How do you ban someone who will just barge in and steal in full view of everyone?

 

[Trackman]

Whilst I was sorely tempted to use the tech to open the cupboard, take out some JD, and then stuff it in my jacket to prove a point… I couldn’t bring myself to do it. That stuff is awful. Besides I suspect Sainsbury’s RPIs are monitoring this thread…

Some Morrisons have these too.
Am I going daft, how do they stop shoplifting?

 

[Lost property]

Our local Co-op closed some months ago. On Friday it reopened as a Tesco Express. It was due to open at 10.00am.

I drove past it at approx 09.45am, fifteen minutes before opening. There were queues at the door waiting for opening.

For Christ’s sake…… it is a Tesco Express….. not the Boxing Day Sales……

I am reliably informed, that, they were handing out free string bags !

That was a nice Co-op, nice staff, and, had the advantage of the ATM being inside, very reassuring for ladies and elderly customers.

However, I was amused at the sight of the, short lived, dry cleaning machines adjacent to the store. Cash free, but still "useful " for those so inclined to relocate the machinery. Wonder if they knew the store was closing when they installed it...probably not.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In Gatley, what had once been the Tatton cinema for many years and left fallow after closure, was eventually turned into a Gatley Co-op store.