Mark Harper announces in Llandudno North Wales electrification

[urbophile]

I would shocked if a single wire is put up.

Well you couldn't be shocked if it wasn't! I'll get me coat...

Seriously though, why isn't this a devolved matter for the Welsh Government?

 

[deltic08]

Electrifying the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines should be a bigger priority than the North Wales Coast line.

The cancelled HS2 money was to be redirected to railway projects in the North to benefit the North to compensate for the loss of a northern project. The Chiltern line is not in the North.
I don't consider North Wales in the North either.

 

[The Planner]

The cancelled HS2 money was to be redirected to railway projects in the North to benefit the North to compensate for the loss of a northern project. The Chiltern line is not in the North.

Suggest you look at what qualifies as "North" in the DfTs eyes.

Network North

A £36 billion plan to improve the transport that people use every day.

www.gov.uk

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The cancelled HS2 money was to be redirected to railway projects in the North to benefit the North to compensate for the loss of a northern project. The Chiltern line is not in the North.
I don't consider North Wales in the North either.

If you draw a straight line across Britain from Anglesey to the East Coast, which English towns/cities fall upon that same line and what part of Britain do you associate them with? Where do you feel Chester is?

 

[Topological]

With the announcement tomorrow as well, there are going to be a lot of plans for Labour to either follow or reverse.

It would be nice to think some of the projects will actually get done. However, whether the electrification of North Wales will be the most pressing example I do not know.

One thought though. IF North Wales did get electrified could the line be run with an engine swap at Chester for the Mk4? Then we can just have 197s on the Manchester and get the West Wales back to hourly (removing 2 unnecessary Cardiff terminators as an extra bonus)

 

[Bob Price]

Well you couldn't be shocked if it wasn't! I'll get me coat...

Seriously though, why isn't this a devolved matter for the Welsh Government?

The rail infrastructure in Wales isn't devolved with the exception of the Cardiff Valley lines. However they do run the rail services. This should have been something that they should have been involved in. Likewise Network Rail. However this is totally a scheme dreamed up on the back of a beer mat to have a dig at Labour in Wales. That is why I won't be shocked when it doesn't happen.

 

[3RDGEN]

The cancelled HS2 money was to be redirected to railway projects in the North to benefit the North to compensate for the loss of a northern project. The Chiltern line is not in the North.
I don't consider North Wales in the North either.

It was never for just railway projects it is for transport projects in general as clearly announced at the time. The Network North term is rubbish and they should have had a better name but it was a rushed job I guess.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The rail infrastructure in Wales isn't devolved with the exception of the Cardiff Valley lines. However they do run the rail services. This should have been something that they should have been involved in. Likewise Network Rail. However this is totally a scheme dreamed up on the back of a beer mat to have a dig at Labour in Wales. That is why I won't be shocked when it doesn't happen.

The mention of "the back of a beer mat" reminds me more of the 1960/1970 Labour Party and its meeting with the Trades Unions over "beer and sandwiches"....

 

[Bob Price]

The mention of "the back of a beer mat" reminds me more of the 1960/1970 Labour Party and its meeting with the Trades Unions over "beer and sandwiches"....

Now you are dating yourself

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now you are dating yourself

Indeed so, I am sure that at the age of 78, I have turned into one of the elderly brigade whose main item of conversation is that of of their ailments and saying things like "I'm 78, you know" when using public transport...

 

[Energy]

The cancelled HS2 money was to be redirected to railway projects in the North to benefit the North to compensate for the loss of a northern project. The Chiltern line is not in the North.
I don't consider North Wales in the North either.

Like the Leeds trams which were promised when 2b to Leeds was canceled... Besides "Network North" includes projects as far north as Bognor Regis and Bristol.

"HS2 money" does not exist, its debt from the DfT is justified by HS2's business case. Giving North Wales electrification funding because HS2 got it is like asking for a mortgage on a multi-million-pound house just because they'd give it to Bill Gates.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Electrifying the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines should be a bigger priority than the North Wales Coast line.

But wouldn't Llandudno be a strange place to make pronouncements about the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines?

 

[eldomtom2]

With the announcement tomorrow as well, there are going to be a lot of plans for Labour to either follow or reverse.

What announcement tomorrow?

 

[Topological]

What announcement tomorrow?

I don't think I am imagining it. This morning it was stated that there will be a cabinet meeting held in "Yorkshire and The Humber" at which a £36m fund for local authorities to choose their transportation priorities will be set as Conservative policy.

Exact location was not stated for "security reasons"

Article on the BBC about the cabinet

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak will chair a cabinet meeting in Yorkshire and the Humber on Monday.
Cabinet meetings usually take place in Downing Street, but Gordon Brown introduced regional meetings in 2008.
It comes as money for local transport across the north and midlands using reallocated HS2 funding is set to be announced by the transport secretary.
But Andy Burnham, the Labour mayor for Greater Manchester, cast doubt over the credibility of the latest plans.
Monday's funding announcement is worth £36bn, the spokesperson added.
Mr Sunak, who represents the constituency of Richmond in North Yorkshire, said the reallocated investment would benefit "more people, in more places, more quickly".
Called the Local Transport Fund, the money "fully empowers local people to invest in the transport priorities that matter most to them and their communities," Mr Sunak added.
"Whether it's repaired roads, or refurbished train and bus stations - it will be local leaders who decide what transport projects to invest in based on local needs."

 

[Energy]

at which a £36m fund for local authorities to choose their transportation priorities will be set as Conservative policy.

£36m is very, very little. Also whats the party's obsession with 36, £36bn for Network North and now this...

 

[6Gman]

Exactly. The money for HS2 was borrowed year on year by the DfT for the project. Cancelling it.saved nothing. They have committed to borrow a wadge of cash to electrify a line without any plan, project or business case. This is entirely political and I would shocked if a single wire is put up.

Stand further away then ...



(Sorry; couldn't resist.)

I think that the midland main line and transpennine routes should not be the only routes to be focused on electrification. This project could, in theory, bring jobs to the region. There should really be a rolling electrification program and this could be the start of it, even if it is just a political decoy done by the Tories.

In what way?

Clearly some construction jobs over a short period of time but would the fact that the (basically) hourly train west of Llandudno Junction will be quieter and - perhaps - marginally faster really bring in jobs?

 

[snowball]

(Sorry; couldn't resist.)

Haven't you got an ohm to go to?

 

[6Gman]

Haven't you got an ohm to go to?

There's always some bright spark with an answer isn't there.

We'd better stop before the site admin run us to earth.

 

[Topological]

£36m is very, very little. Also whats the party's obsession with 36, £36bn for Network North and now this...

Was supposed to be 36bn so it is the same £36bn but now seemingly no longer "Network North"

 

[Mikey C]

Well in view of the fact that the Tories will almost certainly not be in charge when plans are drawn up, it looks more like a plot to trap the Labour Party. They will be hamstrung by being committed to this expenditure, but they won't dare to back track (or at least, that's what they must be thinking).

It's also a way of creating a divide between the Tories and the Labour run devolved Welsh government, and portray the Tories as helping North Wales, when the Welsh Government are only interested in South Wales...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Completing any electrification projects already started, such as the MML through to Nottingham and Sheffield, should be a bigger priority than starting large new electrification projects.

Agreed as number 1 priority.

Electrifying the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines should be a bigger priority than the North Wales Coast line.

Agreed again.

There should really be a rolling electrification program and this could be the start of it, even if it is just a political decoy done by the Tories.

Agreed again!

 

[jagardner1984]

I think it is symptomatic of the entire political system that 4 months after the cancellation of HS2 to appease his back benchers and to hide the catastrophic damage done to the economy (and by extension the economics of the HS2 project) by his predecessor with a vague launch of “Network North” including a variety of schemes completed years ago, pothole repairs and lots of non committal blue sky thinking, the topic for the big transport launch today is “refurbishing Bus Stations”.

This latest announcement by Harper is just further muddled drivel with no substance designed for a quick applause line in the hall, along the lines of Rishi telling farmers how much he loves food production and actually making a reference to a lettuce …. Each time there is a set of polls which go along the lines of … Labour 20 points ahead, Tories down at 25% or whatever …. My question is just … who are the 25% ? Can entirely see why people would be as yet unconvinced by Labour, but who is it who believes the most hopeful, competent picture for the next 5 years of the country …. Is this ?

Utterly, utterly pitiful.

 

[Snow1964]

What announcement tomorrow?

This investment will give local authorities long term certainty to invest in transformative and ambitious transport improvements from 2025 through to 2032 including:

• building new roads and improving junctions
• installing or expanding mass transit systems
• improving roads by filling in potholes and better street lighting for personal safety
• improving journey times for car and bus users by tackling congestion
• increasing the number of EV chargepoints
• refurbishing bus and rail stations
• improving our streets so they are safer to walk children to school and increasing accessibility for all

Local leaders to receive £4.7 billion to transform transport across the North and Midlands

Unprecedented transport budget targeted at smaller cities, towns and rural areas will fund projects that matter most to local communities.

www.gov.uk

 

[Neptune]

Anybody who firmly believes that this ‘released’ HS2 money even exists, never mind believes it would ever be redirected for transport projects elsewhere, especially ‘up north’ wants to give their heads a damn good shake.

Does anyone remember the promise that the money saved from leaving the EU would be redirected to the NHS? Remind me how that went again?

 

[Snow1964]

Does anyone remember the promise that the money saved from leaving the EU would be redirected to the NHS? Remind me how that went again?

The money saved, which turned out to be extra costs involved for everyone crossing the border, or trying to buy things from Europe.

I think it is generally now accepted that everyone was taken for a fool, and a lot of todays announcement will be rehash of what has previously been expected.

 

[Meerkat]

Might be worth linking the North Wales aspiration diagram from summer 2020 for reference, (although treat it as aspirations, not what will happen)

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-07/north-wales-main-line-rail-network-map.pdf

I am not sure what the reference to Wrexham is about, maybe someone more local can explain how that bit makes sense unless service patterns are due to change.

Am I missing something or is that diagram aspirational to the same degree as me aspiring to marry Jennifer Lawrence and live in a castle? Metro frequency 4tph along the coast! 2tph to Blaenau?!!

 

[Trainbike46]

I was listening to the excellent Green Signals podcast today. They asked the question how much has actually been achieved? The answer is nothing.

There have been some reopenings across the country, including in the Soutwest (e.g. Okehampton) and Scotland (e.g. Borders railway, Leven branch).

Of course, these may have little to do with Boris, but that has never stopped him from taking credit for something before!

 

[yorksrob]

Ultimately any such investment is welcome. However it's unlikely to make passengers forget the last two years of chaos.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ultimately any such investment is welcome. However it's unlikely to make passengers forget the last two years of chaos.

When remembering the "chaos" over the last two years, let us not forget the main contenders are who actually disrupt passenger travel.

 

[yorksrob]

When remembering the "chaos" over the last two years, let us not forget the main contenders are who actually disrupt passenger travel.

Indeed (The Government/treasury/DfT).