Worst examples of BR era "vandalism"?

[EbbwJunction1]

If I remember correctly, BR(W) had a plan in the 1970s to move the majority of their staff out of London.

Their chosen location was Cardiff, where they built Brunel House, next door to Queen Street station. However, the staff objected and so they compromised by building a similar building next to Swindon station to where they moved a lot of staff. Some did, I think, move to Cardiff and for quite a few years there was a double arrow sign on the top of the building, but I'm not sure how long they stayed there.

By the time that I moved into Brunel House with the Welsh Office in the 1980s, I'm pretty sure that there were no rail staff there at all; indeed, the major tenant was BT, who had a very nice restaurant (which we weren't allowed to use!) on the top floor. The vast majority of those who were there then have moved elsewhere now, and although the building is occupied, I'm not sure by whom.

I noticed on a recent visit to Swindon that Rail House (I think that was the name?) is now completely empty and looks very tatty.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I noticed on a recent visit to Swindon that Rail House (I think that was the name?) is now completely empty and looks very tatty.

Keep hearing rumours that NR could move out of the city centre and back to the tower block.

 

[uglymonkey]

Exmouth station. From this; ( 4 platforms)

To this single platform "

 

[Strathclyder]

Not the absolute worst example of this by any means, but Glasgow Queen Street's George Square & Dundas Street entrances dating from the late 60s/early 70s weren't exactly an architectural tour-de-force (Consort House on the corner of West George & Dundas Streets & up to in front of the Subway entrance there and what became the Millennium Hotel's extension over the drop-off point straight off Queen St.

The worst offence these two committed was nearly completely obscuring the Carswell-designed train-shed roof from the George Square side. Granted, the most recent rebuild commits the same offence, but not at the expense of concourse and passenger circulation space - thanks to where it sits in Glasgow, an increasingly cluttered concourse constrained further by the aforementioned structures at the front, pre-rebuild Queen St always felt cramped for how busy it was; the station in it's present form is a major step up in these respects - and is actually something of a landmark in it's own right rather than being yet two more nondescript concrete blocks from the 60s/70s.

Saying that though, I still have two issues with the present Queen St: no canopy between the Dundas St entrance and the Subway's travelator at Buchanan Street (if anything, that is a minor gripe) and the North Hanover Street side of the station (where the stop for the rail link bus and taxi rank used to be), though the current proposals for that side of station will improve things markedly should they go ahead.

 

[WesternLancer]

Exmouth station. From this; ( 4 platforms)

To this single platform "

That says an awful lot!

 

[Irascible]

Exmouth station. From this; ( 4 platforms) [snip]
To this single platform

Having been in the original as a very small kid, it was pretty well vandalised ( by being run down rather than specifically vandals! ) before they demolished it... that was after the line to Budleigh went though.

 

[peteb]

Snow Hill station Birmingham. Although a bit of a wind tunnel it was very impressive for it's lengthy platforms and canopy. The present station is equally windswept but under a multistorey car park....

 

[Recessio]

Holborn Viaduct station. The hotel was replaced with a terrible office block. Yes the hotel was damaged in the blitz, but it still took twenty years for BR to get around to demolishing it, which would have been enough time to restore it.

 

[Rescars]

Perhaps we might also list the notable buildings which were abandoned but not demolished when they might have been, and are now returning to railway use. Curzon Street is a fine example.

 

[Helvellyn]

I'll add Carlisle Citadel end screens - I think the Tudor design was unique. I can understand their removal in the 1950s due to being wooden framed and likely of huge cost to repair. But it's a shame the overall roof was so dramatically scaled back and plain style screens not installed instead. Might have allowed a later recreation.

https://content-eu.invisioncic.com/y320084/monthly_11_2018/blogentry-9175-0-05402700-1542677629.jpg

As an extension so many canopies and/or end screens were lost. King's Cross at least kept it's overall roof but the scars where the original end screens were removed remain from where they were just cut away.

 

[simonw]

Exmouth station. From this; ( 4 platforms)

To this single platform "

Whilst the ' new' is poor, the original looks like no great loss to me.

 

[Irascible]

Snow Hill station Birmingham. Although a bit of a wind tunnel it was very impressive for it's lengthy platforms and canopy. The present station is equally windswept but under a multistorey car park....

Was that one not falling down by itself?

 

[Rescars]

One of the more unusual examples of vandalism was the decision to convert the Great Northern Railway's Royal saloon, built in 1889, to become a static community hall and chapel at Gatehouse-of-Fleet station, for the use of the railway families who lived in this remote location. This historic vehicle was towed up the wilds of Galloway, shorn of its bogies and installed on a base of sleepers three months before the line was closed, at which point the families moved away and the erstwhile royal saloon left to rot.

 

[yorksrob]

Was that one not falling down by itself?

I've not seen any evidence that a bit of remedial work couldn't have stabilized it, particularly if it hadn't been let slide for several years.

 

[simonw]

Was that one not falling down by itself?

It was and in addition the station had been closed for a number of years. I'm not sure when the decision to reopen it was made.

 

[yorksrob]

It was and in addition the station had been closed for a number of years. I'm not sure when the decision to reopen it was made.

Given the situation of Birminghams railways at the time, the entire closure could be considered an act of vandalism.

 

[simonw]

Given the situation of Birminghams railways at the time, the entire closure could be considered an act of vandalism.

Why?

 

[yorksrob]

Why?

Because it ripped the heart out of the whole former Western Region group of routes (a heart that had to be put back expensively not long after).

 

[Falcon1200]

Because it ripped the heart out of the whole former Western Region group of routes (a heart that had to be put back expensively not long after).

Although it is understandable that post-nationalisation, and in an era of perceived rail decline, BR had no need for two competing routes between Birmingham and Wolverhampton; Plus it made sense to concentrate other services, as much as possible, on the expensively-rebuilt New Street. However it is great that with increased rail usage Snow Hill has been re-opened, although I agree the station now is a shadow of its former greatness.

BR vandalism was not just demolishing things; In the early 1970s the ancient Up side station buildings at Oxford were replaced by a structure so poor that it in turn had to be replaced again around 20 years later!

 

[yorksrob]

Although it is understandable that post-nationalisation, and in an era of perceived rail decline, BR had no need for two competing routes between Birmingham and Wolverhampton; Plus it made sense to concentrate other services, as much as possible, on the expensively-rebuilt New Street. However it is great that with increased rail usage Snow Hill has been re-opened, although I agree the station now is a shadow of its former greatness.

BR vandalism was not just demolishing things; In the early 1970s the ancient Up side station buildings at Oxford were replaced by a structure so poor that it in turn had to be replaced again around 20 years later!

To be fair, a lot of the Snow Hill debacle had to do with the PTE's obsession with buses. Would Snow Hill closure have been pursued had there not have also been plans to shut the direct line to Stratford as well for example.

I suspect that BR might have put the cart before the horse and closed Snow Hill in expectation of more closures of local services than materialised.

 

[Tetchytyke]

To be fair, a lot of the Snow Hill debacle had to do with the PTE's obsession with buses.

It’s a fair point that a lot of BR closures didn’t exist in a vacuum. When Birmingham City Council had pulled down most of the outer city centre to build the Queensway, and had made it abundantly clear they were all for building a city centred on cars, you can see why BR would follow suit.

 

[WesternLancer]

One of the more unusual examples of vandalism was the decision to convert the Great Northern Railway's Royal saloon, built in 1889, to become a static community hall and chapel at Gatehouse-of-Fleet station, for the use of the railway families who lived in this remote location. This historic vehicle was towed up the wilds of Galloway, shorn of its bogies and installed on a base of sleepers three months before the line was closed, at which point the families moved away and the erstwhile royal saloon left to rot.

That's very much an interesting one.

 

[simonw]

To be fair, a lot of the Snow Hill debacle had to do with the PTE's obsession with buses. Would Snow Hill closure have been pursued had there not have also been plans to shut the direct line to Stratford as well for example.

I suspect that BR might have put the cart before the horse and closed Snow Hill in expectation of more closures of local services than materialised.

Moor street had enough capacity to serve the GWR lines serving the suburbs to South of Birmingham.

Apart from the service to Wolverhampton low level, the remaining GWR services could be dealt with at New Street. So from 1967 Show Hill was,reduced to one service to low level.

Even the Paddington services could be served from New Street. Anyway we are off on a tangent as the thread is about "vandalism"

 

[Sun Chariot]

One of the more unusual examples of vandalism was the decision to convert the Great Northern Railway's Royal saloon, built in 1889, to become a static community hall and chapel at Gatehouse-of-Fleet station, for the use of the railway families who lived in this remote location. This historic vehicle was towed up the wilds of Galloway, shorn of its bogies and installed on a base of sleepers three months before the line was closed, at which point the families moved away and the erstwhile royal saloon left to rot.

Fascinating. You've now got me searching the web for a photo
It doesn't get mentioned by Steve Banks, on his excellent "LNER-and-constituents-biased" site; so photos might be elusive.

 

[Rescars]

Fascinating. You've now got me searching the web for a photo
It doesn't get mentioned by Steve Banks, on his excellent "LNER-and-constituents-biased" site; so photos might be elusive.

I found this tale in "The Port Road" by Andrew F Swan. The author gives a lot more detail and has managed to find several photographs, including one of the first service held, which was attended by the great and the good including the Assistant General Manager, Scotland. Setting up this short lived facility seems to have been quite a big exercise, involving a lot of shunting, a gang of 30 staff, a breakdown train and a steam crane. Vandalism could be labour intensive apparently!

 

[WesternLancer]

Fascinating. You've now got me searching the web for a photo
It doesn't get mentioned by Steve Banks, on his excellent "LNER-and-constituents-biased" site; so photos might be elusive.

This could be it - given the comments below the photo, which indicates in use as a chapel in July 1966 - @Rescars may be able to check if it matches the photos in the AF Swan 'Port Road' book cited but it seems likely

Gatehouse of Fleet station. Old coach. 19.7.66

Explore Roger Joanes' 5848 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

From one comment
"This coach was orignally GNR 2408, a 12-wheel Inspection Saloon, UK built by Cravens ... ... in 1889, as Queen Victoria's Saloon (but hardly used as such, hence converted to Inspection purposes), retired as renumbered in BR days as SC972002E; thought to be at least 60' in length. Grounded in 1965."


a search on the carriage number then lead me to this with another pic

https://twitter.com/SalopianLyne/status/1250915201786003456

 

[Sun Chariot]

This could be it - given the comments below the photo, which indicates in use as a chapel in July 1966

That's gold-dust many thanks for finding and sharing that image.
It's not too dissimilar to Howlden's saloon of 1900, shown at the foot of this page:

GNR saloons - Steve Banks

Railway historical research (all companies) especially workings on the LNER and BR. Railway modelling of coaches and carriages on a professional basis.

www.steve-banks.org

Anyway, I'll try veering back on topic now!

 

[WesternLancer]

That's gold-dust many thanks for finding and sharing that image.
It's not too dissimilar to Howlden's saloon of 1900, shown at the foot of this page:

GNR saloons - Steve Banks

Railway historical research (all companies) especially workings on the LNER and BR. Railway modelling of coaches and carriages on a professional basis.

www.steve-banks.org

Anyway, I'll try veering back on topic now!

Yes, sometimes strange how searches work - I just did a very quick google search with nothing more than 'Gatehouse of Fleet Station' in the search and that image was relatively high on the images found section of google images search result! It looked plausible so had a look at the comments under the image which is of course as I quoted. Just luck really.

And thanks for the GNR saloon link - a thorough website which is always good to learn about!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Yes, sometimes strange how searches work - I just did a very quick google search with nothing more than 'Gatehouse of Fleet Station' in the search and that image was relatively high on the images found section of google images search result! It looked plausible so had a look at the comments under the image which is of course as I quoted. Just luck really.

And thanks for the GNR saloon link - a thorough website which is always good to learn about!

I searched GNR Royal Saloon and yielded no suitable result. And, yes, I spend far too many hours absorbed in Steve's site.

 

[Rescars]

This could be it - given the comments below the photo, which indicates in use as a chapel in July 1966 - @Rescars may be able to check if it matches the photos in the AF Swan 'Port Road' book cited but it seems likely

Gatehouse of Fleet station. Old coach. 19.7.66

Explore Roger Joanes' 5848 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

From one comment
"This coach was orignally GNR 2408, a 12-wheel Inspection Saloon, UK built by Cravens ... ... in 1889, as Queen Victoria's Saloon (but hardly used as such, hence converted to Inspection purposes), retired as renumbered in BR days as SC972002E; thought to be at least 60' in length. Grounded in 1965."


a search on the carriage number then lead me to this with another pic

https://twitter.com/SalopianLyne/status/1250915201786003456

That's the one! More details when I next have the book to hand.