Themed graffiti

[sbf kent]

Graffiti is appearing more on South Eastern in recent weeks, but this one caught my eye on Friday at Tonbridge. I am not quite sure this is the right application. (Please move to another place on the forum if not appropriate)

 

[ScottGallagher]

I've never understood the lengths these people go to spray a carriage like that as its obvious it will be cleaned off asap

 

[Joe Paxton]

I've never understood the lengths these people go to spray a carriage like that as its obvious it will be cleaned off asap

ASAP ≠ immediately.

 

[43066]

At least it’s railway themed. It appears to be a contemporary study, lamenting the current desolate state of the industry.

I rather like it!

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I've never understood the lengths these people go to spray a carriage like that as its obvious it will be cleaned off asap

There was a documentary about this on radio 4 a while back. It’s not necessarily the length of time it’s there, and these aren’t necessarily the type of people you’d expect to be doing it.

An example that stuck with me was a guy who was quite successful in his “day” job, but found it quite easy, possibly boring; to him, the thrill was in planning how and when he was going to sneak in, avoiding any security (including any reconnaissance needed), and then actually implementing that plan, and the effective living of a double life that nobody else knew about - he didn’t care how long it was there, he was happy just to have done it, and by then was planning his next attack.

I’m not seeking to minimise what they’re doing, and I’m not seeking to excuse it, but if we don’t consider why they’re doing it and the lengths they’re prepared to go to, we’ll never stop it.

 

[Aviator88]

I rather like a lot of the more creative graffiti - done properly and in the right places (abutments, railway-facing sides of public buildings, underpasses,  not on the side of somebody's house etc), I think it brings a place to life and gives it character.

I think a lot of it looks quite good on the side of freight cars, but don't like seeing it on the sides of passenger trains, power cars etc. I guess my logic is that the freight has to move regardless, whereas passengers may not wish to travel on a train covered in graffiti and thus the operator could lose money as a result.

 

[ExRes]

There's no such thing as 'themed graffiti' just vandalism

 

[skyhigh]

I rather like a lot of the more creative graffiti - done properly and in the right places (abutments, railway-facing sides of public buildings, underpasses,  not on the side of somebody's house etc), I think it brings a place to life and gives it character.

The right places being places where you can't access without trespass and incur a cost to the taxpayer to remove the damage?

Firm no.

 

[75A]

I disagree, some of it is art
Over here many towns and villages have it.
I dont mean the politiical stuff, although in Belfast they do guided tours! but the stuff on the ends of propertys, i'll try and photograph some to show you what I mean

 

[Aviator88]

The right places being places where you can't access without trespass and incur a cost to the taxpayer to remove the damage?

Firm no.

There's no cost to the taxpayer in most of these circumstances, given how the majority of it remains in perpetuity. And certainly not all is a result of trespass.

Besides, how else would train drivers know when to start braking?

 

[Turtle]

At least it’s railway themed. It appears to be a contemporary study, lamenting the current desolate state of the industry.

I rather like it!

There is nothing to "like" when viewing criminal damage.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I disagree, some of it is art
Over here many towns and villages have it.
I dont mean the politiical stuff, although in Belfast they do guided tours! but the stuff on the ends of propertys, i'll try and photograph some to show you what I mean

Some of the murals I saw in Riga, Latvia, 20-ish years ago, were stunning. In my view, they were as captivating as the city's Art Nouveau architectural embellishments.

 

[Turtle]

There's no cost to the taxpayer in most of these circumstances, given how the majority of it remains in perpetuity. And certainly not all is a result of trespass.

Besides, how else would train drivers know when to start braking?

We seem to have a number of vandalism fans on this forum.

 

[Aviator88]

We seem to have a number of vandalism fans on this forum.

Functionally vandalism, technically art, skirting the borders of what people will tolerate as illustrated here and elsewhere, time and time again.

The same people who have vandalism clauses in their property insurance are usually pretty quick to insure a Banksy.

 

[John Luxton]

I really dispair when I see things like this.

Part of the problem in the past two decades have been the media for putting "Banksy" on a pedestal. Thus criminal damage has become "street art". It despoils the environment and is a particular blight in some areas.

I have no problem with people expressing their creativity providing the vehicle, building, wall or whatever is owned by someone who has given permission.

Do many grafitti artists paint the walls of their own homes? Probably not.

Personally I would like to see it stamped out by very heavy fines and more importantly the forcing of culprits to clean it off.

 

[sor]

I'd agree with the "tasteful graffiti" opinion. Less badly-sprayed names and more interesting art please.

(and IMO also more sanctioned spaces to do so - the local council here gave some subway underpasses over to sanctioned graffiti - yes it was official! - and it looks quite nice. Ironically some of it has been defaced by the bores who just want to spray their name over and over again)

I really dispair when I see things like this.

Part of the problem in the past two decades have been the media for putting "Banksy" on a pedestal. Thus criminal damage has become "street art". It despoils the environment and is a particular blight in some areas.

Graffiti also exists in countries that don't have a Banksy, though.

 

[AlterEgo]

I really dispair when I see things like this.

Part of the problem in the past two decades have been the media for putting "Banksy" on a pedestal.

Graffiti was far, far worse as a general problem in English cities long before Banksy. If anything he has raided the artistic standard and it's less cool to just tag TOX or whatever.

 

[renegademaster]

10foot being one of the most prolific offenders in the south east. While its just ugly tagging its really impressive how far he's got and how many have been done

 

[yorkie]

It's better not to give them publicity, in my opinion.

They crave publicity and attention; why give them what they want?

There's no cost to the taxpayer in most of these circumstances, given how the majority of it remains in perpetuity. And certainly not all is a result of trespass.

This clearly isn't true

Besides, how else would train drivers know when to start braking?

Ah, your post isn't intended to be taken seriously.

10foot being one of the most prolific offenders in the south east. While its just ugly tagging its really impressive how far he's got and how many have been done

To me, this seems a strange idea of "impressive"; do you apply that to any other criminal activities, or just this one?

(and IMO also more sanctioned spaces to do so - the local council here gave some subway underpasses over to sanctioned graffiti - yes it was official! - and it looks quite nice. Ironically some of it has been defaced by the bores who just want to spray their name over and over again)

Yes I agree with having dedicated spaces, where it is appropriate, for street art, which is properly designed and sanctioned.

But what has been posted here, is unacceptable.

I dont mean the politiical stuff, although in Belfast they do guided tours! but the stuff on the ends of propertys, i'll try and photograph some to show you what I mean

If it's done with the permission/blessing of the property owner, then that's completely different.

 

[Pub]

In most cases grafitti is done on private property or privately owned objects (carriages, buses etc). unless the owner has given permission it is criminal damage, simple as that, The cost of repairing such damage results in higher fares through increased costs to the operator. or in Network Rail case increased costs paid from the Government's funding which we all pay for through our taxes.

 

[43066]

I disagree, some of it is art
Over here many towns and villages have it.
I dont mean the politiical stuff, although in Belfast they do guided tours! but the stuff on the ends of propertys, i'll try and photograph some to show you what I mean

Graffiti has a long and important history dating back thousands of years, and the murals you describe are part of that.

That doesn’t translate in any way to the low quality tagging we often see on railway vehicles and structures, nor does it justify criminal railway trespass, and of course the cost of repairing the damage has to come from somewhere.

Besides, how else would train drivers know when to start braking?

Probably better than “brake at X haystack”, “brake at Y puddle” etc.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

There's no such thing as 'themed graffiti' just vandalism

I agree. Have you come across "broken window theory"? Basically this theory suggests "that visible signs of crime, antisocial behaviour, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes." So if you condone wanton vandalism like spray painting trains in sidings, you're essentially saying you don't care about the local environment nor the way people behave within it.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I've been watching a few train cab view videos recently and noticed around some London and southeast stations there's walls graffiti tagged, not just quick sprays but multicoloured, right opposite the platform. How do they get away with it in full view of station security cameras?

 

[43066]

I've been watching a few train cab view videos recently and noticed around some London and southeast stations there's walls graffiti tagged, not just quick sprays but multicoloured, right opposite the platform. How do they get away with it in full view of station security cameras?

Generally they will case out the area they are targeting in advance. They will be wearing balaclavas/gloves, will gain access when facilities are unstaffed, and then vanish into the night. It’s extraordinary, not to mention risky, where some of them are prepared to access. They have a lot in common with cable thieves in that respect.

At the lower end of the scale I have seen people openly tagging LU trains when they’re in service, in full view of the public and staff. It’s unlikely anyone is going to intervene beyond calling the police, and the perpetrators will be long gone by the time they attend, unless they are caught red handed by BTP, or perhaps an off duty regular officer.

 

[Somewhere]

I rather like a lot of the more creative graffiti - done properly and in the right places (abutments, railway-facing sides of public buildings, underpasses,  not on the side of somebody's house etc), I think it brings a place to life and gives it character.

I think a lot of it looks quite good on the side of freight cars, but don't like seeing it on the sides of passenger trains, power cars etc. I guess my logic is that the freight has to move regardless, whereas passengers may not wish to travel on a train covered in graffiti and thus the operator could lose money as a result.

Trouble is, its criminal damage. It may actually damage the property that's defaced by it. Removing it costs money, and may also damage the property.
It may prevent surfaces from acting as designed. It also attracts other vandalism

 

[renegademaster]

I have seen people openly tagging LU trains

The Bakerloo line is terrible for this

 

[Railcar]

What about advertisments on railway bridges? For example the WCML bridge over the North Circular Road at Stonebridge Park has the word FERODO painted in large letters. Walking back from The Ace, I wondered if JRR Tolkien used it as inspiration for the name of the lead character in Lord Of The Rings.

 

[RichJF]

There's no such thing as 'themed graffiti' just vandalism

On trains & windows yes it probably is. In specific areas where it's encouraged & non-offensive & doesn't affect public operations it's not. You have to admire some of the artwork as it's incredible. Where i roller blade the walls/area are dedicated to urban art & it is VERY impressive.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What about advertisments on railway bridges? For example the WCML bridge over the North Circular Road at Stonebridge Park has the word FERODO painted in large letters. Walking back from The Ace, I wondered if JRR Tolkien used it as inspiration for the name of the lead character in Lord Of The Rings.

From memory - "Ferodo" were brake blocks ! (often advertised on rail over road bridges) ......

 

[Sun Chariot]

What about advertisments on railway bridges? For example the WCML bridge over the North Circular Road at Stonebridge Park has the word FERODO painted in large letters. Walking back from The Ace, I wondered if JRR Tolkien used it as inspiration for the name of the lead character in Lord Of The Rings.

Ferodo were, as ChiefPlanner, mentions, a popular brand of brake blocks and regularly advertised on railway bridges. So much so, that Kingsway Models has immortalised it:

FB Ferodo Bridge 1/76 | Kingsway Models

A once common sight in towns across the country, this Ferodo bridge can provide a period scene for use on a model railway layout or simply a diorama for 4mm scale vehicles.The kit can be constructed either to make a complete single span bridge or can be built as a half relief double span...

www.kingswaymodels.com