Enterprise Train Managers

I know there's a dedicated TM grade for Translink staff who work the Enterprise, and that's all they do, in addition to certain other Translink conductors who sign the route to Dublin on the C3k stock - for special trains etc.

What's the arrangement on the Dublin end? When I travelled last week there were Irish Rail staff (in IR uniform, not Enterprise), one said they weren't the train manager but they were dealing with revenue. I presume their colleague did the operational side of things.

Is it the case that IR just put a driver with a guard's cert on the train along with a train host/customer service officer/RPI?

cakefiend said:

I know there's a dedicated TM grade for Translink staff who work the Enterprise, and that's all they do, in addition to certain other Translink conductors who sign the route to Dublin on the C3k stock - for special trains etc.

What's the arrangement on the Dublin end? When I travelled last week there were Irish Rail staff (in IR uniform, not Enterprise), one said they weren't the train manager but they were dealing with revenue. I presume their colleague did the operational side of things.

Is it the case that IR just put a driver with a guard's cert on the train along with a train host/customer service officer/RPI?

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No - Iarnród Éireann have guards on the Enterprise.

The staff you refer to are CSOs. They only started doing the Belfast trains last year in addition to the usual Sligo/Rosslare.
Their main job is to check and sell tickets but they are not RPI/RPO.
It is "efficiencies" as part of the pay agreement.

cakefiend said:

I know there's a dedicated TM grade for Translink staff who work the Enterprise, and that's all they do, in addition to certain other Translink conductors who sign the route to Dublin on the C3k stock - for special trains etc.

What's the arrangement on the Dublin end? When I travelled last week there were Irish Rail staff (in IR uniform, not Enterprise), one said they weren't the train manager but they were dealing with revenue. I presume their colleague did the operational side of things.

Is it the case that IR just put a driver with a guard's cert on the train along with a train host/customer service officer/RPI?

Click to expand...

The guard would have been just gang a guard.

The person you would have seen is the CSO who has nothing to do with the operation of the train.

cakefiend said:

I know there's a dedicated TM grade for Translink staff who work the Enterprise, and that's all they do, in addition to certain other Translink conductors who sign the route to Dublin on the C3k stock - for special trains etc.

What's the arrangement on the Dublin end? When I travelled last week there were Irish Rail staff (in IR uniform, not Enterprise), one said they weren't the train manager but they were dealing with revenue. I presume their colleague did the operational side of things.

Is it the case that IR just put a driver with a guard's cert on the train along with a train host/customer service officer/RPI?

Click to expand...

Irish Rail employ five Guards based at Dublin Connolly who work Enterprise services. All of the Irish Rail worked Enterprise trains will have one of them onboard. Additionally they have one Guard based at Dundalk to work the once a day in each direction stopping service between Dundalk and Newry or vice versa only.

As others have stated the person you saw was probably a Customer Service Officer which is basically just a fancy term for a ticket inspector. They just check and sell tickets but unlike RPIs or RPOs they can not do penalty fares or prosecutions. It is a fairly new role that Irish Rail only introduced a couple of years ago.

It is also worth noting that Irish Rail still use the job title "Guard" meaning that they are the only TOC other than SWR to still officially use this job title.

stadler said:

Irish Rail employ five Guards based at Dublin Connolly who work Enterprise services. All of the Irish Rail worked Enterprise trains will have one of them onboard. Additionally they have one Guard based at Dundalk to work the once a day in each direction stopping service between Dundalk and Newry or vice versa only.

As others have stated the person you saw was probably a Customer Service Officer which is basically just a fancy term for a ticket inspector. They just check and sell tickets but unlike RPIs or RPOs they can not do penalty fares or prosecutions. It is a fairly new role that Irish Rail only introduced a couple of years ago.

It is also worth noting that Irish Rail still use the job title "Guard" meaning that they are the only TOC other than SWR to still officially use this job title.

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Thanks, the Irish Rail uniform threw me a little

stadler said:

It is also worth noting that Irish Rail still use the job title "Guard" meaning that they are the only TOC other than SWR to still officially use this job title.

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A Guard on Irishrail is different to the UK.
Any loco hauled train in Ireland must have a Guard.
Any DMU is DOO.

dubscottie said:

A Guard on Irishrail is different to the UK.
Any loco hauled train in Ireland must have a Guard.
Any DMU is DOO.

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That’s not correct, a guard is not required on loco hauled trains.

Dublin to Cork runs DOO without guards on loco hauled sets.

The requirement for guards is on all trains, loco hauled or DMU which cross the border from The Republic to NI.

berneyarms said:

No - Iarnród Éireann have guards on the Enterprise.

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And the Enterprise is the only train to now have guards.

IrishRailScene said:

And the Enterprise is the only train to now have guards.

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Also the once a day in each direction Irish Rail stopping services has a Guard between Newry and Dundalk and vice versa between Dundalk and Newry on these services. These are not Enterprise services. But yes other than that and Enterprise everything in the Republic Of Ireland is DOO these days.

stadler said:

Also the once a day in each direction Irish Rail stopping services has a Guard between Newry and Dundalk and vice versa between Dundalk and Newry on these services. These are not Enterprise services. But yes other than that and Enterprise everything in the Republic Of Ireland is DOO these days.

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0635 from Newry & 1713 from Pearse to Newry. 0635 is 7 x ICR, 1713 is 8 x 29K.

Both are limited to 40mph (I think) between Newry and Dundalk due to no second man being on these. But that may have changed.

The 0635 from Newry could be early or late depending on traffic on the way into Dublin. As it is a 22K it could most likely be early.

The 1713 from Pearse to Newry (29K) can arrive early. The first time I went to Newry to see it in August 2022 (travelled on 1805 ex Belfast Enterprise) we arrived on the Enterprise at 1909, and the 29K would usually be due at 1912, but it arrived first!

It left just four minutes later heading for Dundalk.

Sorry left five or six minutes after the DD (which left at 1910 or 1911, 29K left at 1916).

IrishRailScene said:

0635 from Newry & 1713 from Pearse to Newry. 0635 is 7 x ICR, 1713 is 8 x 29K.

Both are limited to 40mph (I think) between Newry and Dundalk due to no second man being on these. But that may have changed.

The 0635 from Newry could be early or late depending on traffic on the way into Dublin. As it is a 22K it could most likely be early.

The 1713 from Pearse to Newry (29K) can arrive early. The first time I went to Newry to see it in August 2022 (travelled on 1805 ex Belfast Enterprise) we arrived on the Enterprise at 1909, and the 29K would usually be due at 1912, but it arrived first!

It left just four minutes later heading for Dundalk.

Sorry left five or six minutes after the DD (which left at 1910 or 1911, 29K left at 1916).

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A DMU takes about 10 mins longer than the Enterprise between Dundalk and Newry.
The issue is that the vast majority of 22 & 29 units don't have TPWS for operation in NI.
The TPWS 22 units are easy to spot as they have black Irishrail logos and are the first few built sets. Same with the 29 units although every cab on them that I have been in doesn't have TPWS.
Its a similar situation with 3k CAF units working south. Only 6 are fitted with CAWS.

dubscottie said:

A DMU takes about 10 mins longer than the Enterprise between Dundalk and Newry.
The issue is that the vast majority of 22 & 29 units don't have TPWS for operation in NI.
The TPWS 22 units are easy to spot as they have black Irishrail logos and are the first few built sets. Same with the 29 units although every cab on them that I have been in doesn't have TPWS.
Its a similar situation with 3k CAF units working south. Only 6 are fitted with CAWS.

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I believe 22K (non-TPWS) will run at 40MPH to Newry where they pick up a second man. A scenario like this happened on the 19th May 2023, when the 1523 to Drogheda was cancelled to replace the 1520 to Belfast (failed) which ran at 40MPH from the border to Newry where it picked up a second man and ran at 90MPH again from there onwards.

It ran empty from Belfast so I presume it dropped the second man off there.

Similarly for 29K sets, They ALL run with a second man if covering for an Enterprise (75MPH) but have to have it from Dundalk to Lanyon Place and back.

I presume there is a similar set up for the C3Ks (3007 - 3023)? 40MPH or so to Dundalk and 90MPH once second man onboard? Then runs back as normal.

That being said, I have observed several non AWS/TPWS ICRs, 29Ks and C3K sets (Non CAWS sets) running the Enterprise.

Forgot to mention - the following sets that are TPWS/AWS equipped (22K) are;

3 car ICR

22001
22002
22003
22004
22005
22006

5/6 car ICR

22036
22037
22038
22039