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How could Lumo expand/develop/improve?

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Blindtraveler

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Lumo plans to carry additional 275,000 passengers between London and Newcastle

Lumo press release LUMO PLANS TO CARRY ADDITIONAL 275,000 PASSENGERS BETWEEN LONDON AND NEWCASTLE Extra service could also lead to new jobs for Newcastle-based train operator Published 19 Jan 2024 Here at Lumo we're exploring plans to operate an additional return journey every day between...
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Personally, I feel that Lumo should be concentrating on trying to obtain additional rolling stock, to either lengthen the existing sets or have some completely additional ones for strengthening purposes.

I don't imagine they get the volume of repeat customers that they might like, as once we've all experienced the Ryanair of railways with sardine class accommodation being the only type of available that most people decide it's not worth the effort.

And if they were to get additional carriages or further units how about some more luggage space, this is a problem. What would others change about the specification of the original fleet? The only redeeming feature for me are the seats
 
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greyman42

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Blindtraveler said:
Personally, I feel that Lumo should be concentrating on trying to obtain additional rolling stock, to either lengthen the existing sets or have some completely additional ones for strengthening purposes.
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If Lumo could lengthen their sets and get a stop at York, that would be a real bonus although i realise a stop at York is out of their hands.
 
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bluenoxid

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Extension to Glasgow is one possible expansion opportunity, potentially utilising an agreement with Scotrail to carry passengers for a token fee.

I don’t know where the Metrocentre would be on this but a Newcastle unit could use shoulder time to start there or even Heworth.

Completely off the wall and competing with Ryanair would be London area-Dublin utilising a train to bus to dock connection.
 
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JonathanH

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Bletchleyite said:
It's basically Ryanrail, its clientelle won't care about 5 minutes.
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Depends if the yield from selling end to end journeys between London and Edinburgh is better than selling a journey from London to York and the seats being empty north of there. If there was a much custom from York to Edinburgh as London to York, stopping at York would make sense. However, as it is many seats don't get resold north of Newcastle. At the moment, they don't really have capacity to stop at York.
 
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route101

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bluenoxid said:
Extension to Glasgow is one possible expansion opportunity, potentially utilising an agreement with Scotrail to carry passengers for a token fee.

I don’t know where the Metrocentre would be on this but a Newcastle unit could use shoulder time to start there or even Heworth.

Completely off the wall and competing with Ryanair would be London area-Dublin utilising a train to bus to dock connection.
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Plenty of people from Glasgow seem to use Lumo so not a wild suggestion.
 
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JonathanH

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The problem with running to Glasgow is that the stock is better utilised running between London and Edinburgh. Glasgow is two hours of relatively unlucrative running.

To be low cost and high yield, the train needs to be running where the yield is high and where the operation can be kept simple.

How much more could Lumo charge for London to Glasgow relative to what it charges for London to Edinburgh? If the answer is nothing, it isn't worth them extending there.
 
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Clarence Yard

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JonathanH said:
Depends if the yield from selling end to end journeys between London and Edinburgh is better than selling a journey from London to York and the seats being empty north of there. If there was a much custom from York to Edinburgh as London to York, stopping at York would make sense. However, as it is many seats don't get resold north of Newcastle. At the moment, they don't really have capacity to stop at York.
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Is the correct answer. If your trains are full to/from Newcastle, why stop at York. It’s the same issue with Hull Trains and Peterborough - why do it when you crowd off higher yield punters?

If Lumo could get to Glasgow, it would charge more than going to Edinburgh because it would price in the cost of a punter getting to Edinburgh from the Glasgow direction, as part of determining that Glasgow fare offer. You obviously also factor in the through journey benefit effect in that fare offer.

But getting to/from Glasgow and tying this up with ECML paths is not easy at the moment, irrespective of any need to obtain additional stock.
 
Helvellyn

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If First get their Sheffield services approved then it could consider new units for Lumo and cascade the 803s to an expanded Hull/Sheffield operation (possibly convert the 803s to 802s).

New, longer units would likely still be single class but could be designed to address some of the issues with lack of luggage space. A follow-on run of lumo-ised CAF units after the LNER build could be one option (bi-mode with electric/battery only to maintain the green credentials).

If they had longer units I wonder if they would be tempted by a Lumo Plus product in one coach? Could still be 2+2 seating but all with tables (even if some seats were airline), complimentary hot drinks, water/juice and snacks (crisps, etc.)? Not too much overhead and could appeal to the cost conscious who don't want to pay LNER First Class prices.

Temptation to try an overnight service (reminiscent of the old BR Nighriders). Downside would be liklihood of needing Drivers to sign a range of diversionary routes that adds cost but fast journey times would be less of an issue and a unit could be looped at various places on the ECML if there was no works needing a diversion. The low cost airline model partly works on maximising aircraft utilisation and this would be similar.
 
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Failed Unit

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Not sure if going to somewhere like Edinburgh Gateway or Edinburgh Parkway could help. Although if I recall car parking isn’t great at either of those places for the park and ride traffic.
 
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cle

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Could they do a non-stop, or at least a fast to Dundee, and Aberdeen?
 
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cslusarc

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What could be an improvement is if Lumo operated only two 10-car diagrams on the weekend, reducing the number of drivers it needs to work on the weekend.
 
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Failed Unit

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From a personal point of view stop all trains at Stevenage, at the moment only 2 trains do northbound of which only one of them is at a useful time.

Not sure if the 1045 and 1448 can’t stop because of the follow GC trains or the many other conflicts up the ECML. But they always said they were trying to take on the budget airlines with the Stevenage stop used to attack Luton passengers. Hopefully stopping all trains there call fill that objective. I haven’t actually used them yet, as I don’t want to travel before 0600 (and LNER competes on price at that time of the morning) and the 1241 requires a 31 minute connection at Stevenage.
 
YorkRailFan

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Here at Lumo we're exploring plans to operate an additional return journey every day between Newcastle and London.

The proposals are for a new early morning service from Newcastle to London, with an additional evening return. This will enable us to carry up to an additional 277,000 passengers between the cities each year and could represent a 15% increase in its capacity.

We've submitted proposals to operate the additional journeys as part of the East Coast Main Line timetable review exercise, which is taking place with all train operators on the route. Lumo currently operates five return services a day between London and Edinburgh, all of which stop at Newcastle.

Lumo has already created over 100 new jobs in the North East, many linked to apprenticeships, and is anticipating recruiting for new roles to meet the additional requirements. If approved, the additional services will be operated using the existing Lumo fleet of all-electric trains.

Martijn Gilbert, Managing Director of Lumo, said: “We are very excited to be looking at this option to grow our popular all-electric train service to and from our home city of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. The North East has a number of plans to further improve transport connectivity and the growth of Lumo will help support this and deliver more great value and sustainable journeys to more customers on our route."


“We have played a significant part in encouraging more people to travel to and from Newcastle by train, bringing substantial environmental benefits while boosting the economy. We look forward to working with Network Rail to refine this opportunity and take it forward to the final timetable, which we hope will benefit customers travelling on the East Coast Main Line.”

The proposals will now be subject to final timing refinements with Network Rail ahead of an application for approval from the industry regulator, the Office of Rail and Road (ORR).

Under the new timetable, our full-route London to Edinburgh Lumo service, calling at Morpeth, is takes just over 4 hours, down from our current average journey time of 4 hours and 20 minutes, building on already holding the title for the fastest London to Newcastle service. Our 20:27 from London King’s Cross completes the journey to Newcastle in just 2 hours and 35 minutes, faster than other East Coast train operators. See more on journey times here. It is anticipated that the additional services could begin in December 2024.
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Lumo proposal for extra service

www.lumo.co.uk www.lumo.co.uk

Lumo is hoping for another daily service from Newcastle to London for the early morning, which will offer travelers a faster and cheaper early morning travel option into London.
 
tiptoptaff

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JonathanH said:
Why? It would be fairly uncomfortable for sleeping.
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So are NatEx and Megabus, but they do well on overnight trips out of London.

And that's LUMO's alleged primary competition.

The Lowlander is popular. A cheapo version of that, leaving a similar time and arriving in EDB in the small hours might work, even if only on weekend nights

cslusarc said:
What could be an improvement is if Lumo operated only two 10-car diagrams on the weekend, reducing the number of drivers it needs to work on the weekend.
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Why would that be an improvement?
 
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notadriver

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tiptoptaff said:
So are NatEx and Megabus, but they do well on overnight trips out of London.

And that's LUMO's alleged primary competition.

The Lowlander is popular. A cheapo version of that, leaving a similar time and arriving in EDB in the small hours might work, even if only on weekend nights


Why would that be an improvement?
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I thought lumo competed with low cost airlines not coaches. The provision of an on board trolley service alone serving hot/cold drinks sets them from road transport where staying seated and belted is the law.
 
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tiptoptaff said:
So are NatEx and Megabus, but they do well on overnight trips out of London.

And that's LUMO's alleged primary competition.

The Lowlander is popular. A cheapo version of that, leaving a similar time and arriving in EDB in the small hours might work, even if only on weekend nights
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NatEx run 2, Megabus run 2, and offer 1 Citylink service. At £18-21 (apart from Citylink at £36) they are hardly pricing off passengers.

For Lumo to even half-fill its train it would need to have all of the NatEx and Megabus traffic, and at the ~£20 fare.

Very late-night train services tend to be quiet, I've been on Chiltern services out of Marylebone where a 2-car 168 is enough, and for late-night out of Birmingham, a single 4-car 350 is enough.
 
tiptoptaff

tiptoptaff

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Energy said:
NatEx run 2, Megabus run 2, and offer 1 Citylink service. At £18-21 (apart from Citylink at £36) they are hardly pricing off passengers.

For Lumo to even half-fill its train it would need to have all of the NatEx and Megabus traffic, and at the ~£20 fare.

Very late-night train services tend to be quiet, I've been on Chiltern services out of Marylebone where a 2-car 168 is enough, and for late-night out of Birmingham, a single 4-car 350 is enough.
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It was just a suggestion that an overnight service  may be viable or a worthwhile expansion.

A direct link to Scotland at say 2330 on a Friday or Saturday night would probably be fairly popular
 
najaB

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tiptoptaff said:
A direct link to Scotland at say 2330 on a Friday or Saturday night would probably be fairly popular
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I'd have it leave a little later - maybe 0030 and timetable it to arrive in Edinburgh at 0700. Same in the other direction.

That would let most people get the last train to Edinburgh and still make the Lumo.

It wouldn't make a fortune, but I don't doubt it would receive some custom.
 
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