SargeNpton
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It was an EEC/EU directive that all member countries would swap to/from daylight saving time on the same date.
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Online petition calls for Leap Year Day to move to June: could it work?
- Thread starter AY1975
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R
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Just do away with it and leave us on GMT all year like it used to be!
Hmmm...
Welcome to darkness at 7pm at the start of April.
Welcome to darkness at 8pm at the start of May.
Welcome to darkness at 9pm in the middle of the summer.
Welcome to darkness at 8pm through most of August.
Welcome to darkness at 7pm throughout September.
Our summers would become much darker than we've been used to since DST was introduced (way before 1980!) and I suspect the impact on the tourist industry would be profound. No more long, light summer evenings but partial daylight at 3am and broad daylight by 4am, disrupting sleep.
No thanks!
GMT goes on far too long already, I'd start it three weeks later and end it a month earlier, so the whole of March is on BST. Even northerly locations would be basically light at 8am if we switched to BST at the start of March.
The USA appear to go forward much earlier than us (March 10) and western continental Europe is one hour ahead anyway, so few western countries have such disproportionately dark evenings in mid-March than the UK. Even Reykjavik has a sunset of 19:30 by mid March, due to its timezone.
Mostly agree, though I reluctantly see the need for GMT in late Nov, Dec and Jan otherwise we'd end up with very dark mornings.
No sensible reason I can see to keep GMT in March though.
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This was already discussed in a thread dedicated to the topic; you are massively outvoted!
Which timezone should the UK be in?
The way I see it, there are currently three possible answers to the question proposed in the thread title (the question assumes the same timezone is kept all year and ignores daylight saving. I do not wish to debate whether we should adapt daylight saving in this thread but rather, assuming we...
www.railforums.co.uk
Back on topic:
It's either a poor joke or he is very naive; it would make absolutely no material difference, of course.
If it's serious, which I doubt, the idea that having a longer June means an extra day of warmer weather compared to having it in March is a very simplistic one, which would only fool someone with a spectacularly low IQ.
In any case, there is no way it would happen, and no tangible benefit; only disbenefits.
I think nearly all comments are tongue-in-cheek.
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Have you heard of William Willett?
londonbridge
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nor me, unless medical science has evolved to the point where people routinely live longer than Jeanne Calment, the verified oldest ever person, whose age was given as 122 years 164 days when she passed away in 1997. Although that has been disputed a few times, with the suggestion that she actually passed away at a much younger age and her daughter assumed her identity. It’s also interesting that no other human is recorded as having reached 120.
For the record the current oldest person is Spaniard Maria Branyas, who at the time of this post is 116 and 335 days, and yet is still outside the top ten of the verified oldest ever people.
Given people are living longer on the whole, and one might assume there will be further advances in longevity in the next 80 years due partly to better health in baby-boomer and post-boomer generations, and partly due to advances in medical technology, I wonder how old the oldest person alive in the year 2100 might be? Could it be 130 by then?
No 19th century babies left then, by the sounds of it - guess the last passed away between 2015 and 2020.
Ah, ok. A shame there wasn't an agreement for all countries to move back earlier, in that case.
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I used to hate February (hence hating it being extended during Leap Year) because it's the last month of winter, but in the past few years I have changed my mind since signs of Spring usually start showing during February. Leave Leap Year Day at 29th February.
Junctionman
On Moderation
It`ll spoil that rhyme i learnt at school
30 days hath September ,April,June and November etc etc etc
30 days hath September ,April,June and November etc etc etc
317 forever
Established Member
I did sign the petition as I quite like the idea of the extra day in summer instead too.
That said, I had already booked annual leave this February 29th. This way I can have a day out shopping and get some receipts and a bus ticket dated February 29th. If this change does happen as soon as 2028, 2024 would be our final such opportunity.
Just a thought. If Leap Year day changes from February 29th to June 31st, it will in a sense postpone Easter by a day and amend the May Bank Holidays too.
That said, I had already booked annual leave this February 29th. This way I can have a day out shopping and get some receipts and a bus ticket dated February 29th. If this change does happen as soon as 2028, 2024 would be our final such opportunity.
Just a thought. If Leap Year day changes from February 29th to June 31st, it will in a sense postpone Easter by a day and amend the May Bank Holidays too.
There is no extra day in summer. All that the change would do is put different labels on the same days.
In most years, there would be no difference. The days of the week don't change: Easter is still on a Sunday, May Bank Holiday is still on a Monday. But when the proposed change did make a difference, it would make Easter and May Bank Holiday earlier not later.
Easter dates are governed by a complicated calculation that is based on the lunar calendar. Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.
In the calculation 21 March is fixed as a reference date for the spring equinox. By changing the date labelling in leap years, the day labelled 21 March would be one day earlier in leap years than if things stayed the same. If the full moon was on that date then Easter would be advanced by 4 weeks.
Similarly, there would be some leap years where the first Monday in May would be a week earlier than if the extra day was still 29 February, and the May Bank Holiday would be advanced by one week.
317 forever
Established Member
True about Easter Sunday remaining on the Sunday even if the leap year day were postponed.
The reason I describe Easter as later is this. With leap year day 2024 still being February 29th, Easter Sunday will be March 31st. Had leap year day already been postponed, February would only have been 28 days. So, Easter Sunday would have been April 1st instead of March 31st. Going off at a tangent (which is of course against Rail Forums rules
) we would have had an hour longer for Easter Sunday, as the clocks would have gone forward a week earlier, but that's another story.It is still the same day, it just has a different label on it.
Actually it isn't going off at a tangent, because the date that the clocks go forward is also set by the calendar, and is the last Sunday in March. The difference is that, whereas an early Easter might be regarded as a bad thing, the clocks going forward a week earlier might be regarded as a good thing.Going off at a tangent (which is of course against Rail Forums rules
You're right that, in 2024, if leap year was moved, the clocks would go forward a week earlier and Easter would stay the same. But that only happens when Easter Sunday is 31 March on the existing calendar.
I'd venture that this is not going to happen let alone be debated in Parliament. There are really far many more important things going on in the world at the moment.
Who knows. Maybe the current government can start blaming the Gregorian Calendar for our ills. Forget that it's used by the entire western world, and online around the whole world, we're too good for it...
spyinthesky
Member
Completely agree. This would be a Swiss cheese model if change.org would deliver a petition to parliament never mind it getting a reading.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Well it would't. The weather is not going to magically get better one day earlier and summer be one day longer. The position of the sun does not change if we mess about with the calendar. In fact summer will start one day late in the calendar if the leap day is moved to the middle of summer. So the first of June would be a bit more miserable than it had been.
The daft thing about BST is it only makes the daylight part of the day longer if you do not get up early enough to see sunrise. In summer the further you are from the equator the earlier that gets !. In many third world countries people get up at sunrise, do their farming and then go home as it gets dark. Because we are so far removed from nature we get up late and go to bed late. If daylight is so important then why do so many spend so much time indoors... Without Daylight Saving Time we would always know the sun is at its highest point at the same time all year round.True about Easter Sunday remaining on the Sunday even if the leap year day were postponed.
The reason I describe Easter as later is this. With leap year day 2024 still being February 29th, Easter Sunday will be March 31st. Had leap year day already been postponed, February would only have been 28 days. So, Easter Sunday would have been April 1st instead of March 31st. Going off at a tangent (which is of course against Rail Forums rules
Another thing about BST is it makes sense to change the times at the same date as the rest of Europe. Can you imagine how complicated timetables would get for international travel if we have to have an extra bit covering when we are out of sync ?.
To really put the world straight :-
One useless change that needs undoing was made about 2000 years ago was Julius Caesar and Augustus Caeser being vain enough to create months named after thems selves - obviously in the height of summer. September - sept means seven, October - oct means eight, November - 9, December - dec is ten. Ten months would be far better. But I would not tinker with it nowadays.
The longest night should be 31/12 - 01/01. But lets leave it alone.
Lastly we should ask the planet to hurry up and orbit the sun a little quicker so that it completes the orbit in an exact number of days. Maybe easier to slow its rotation down a little tbh.
Ideally 350 days to orbit.
Ideally ten months in a year.
Gives ten months of 35 days.
Means the first of the month would always be the same day of the week.
Oh and Tuesday to Thursdays are the working week - cos that seems to be happening anyway.
Meanwhile back in reality. No tinkering please.
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That probably applies to many of us for about 9 months of the year, and the majority of us from around May to August.
Plus, daylight needs to align with the active part of the day. Try using a shop or a cafe at around 6am. Try using a train or a bus, they're well under their daytime frequency. Daylight at that time is arguably wasted because there isn't a lot you can do with it. And you can't enjoy a walk because you know you've got work coming up, whereas an evening walk post-work is another matter.
So the setup in March for example when it's light at 6am but dark at 7pm seems a little bit crazy, why not make it dark at 6am and light at 7pm? I do agree that the whole of Europe should sync, but that underlines the fact that it's a Europe-wide problem, not just a UK problem.
The same would apply for all-year DST. Though the time of solar noon actually varies, so the sun isn't always at its highest point at the same time. In November it's around 1150, now it's around 1220, so we've effectively regained half of what we lost at the end of October "naturally". This is evidenced by it currently being a good deal lighter at 5pm than it was three months ago - and why GMT isn't such a bad fit for the latter part of winter.
However, the 1150 solar noon in early Nov is why GMT makes little sense at that time of year. Think about it, 1150 solar noon means equivalent daylight at 0650 (when many of us are still in bed) and 1650 (when many of us are still at work).
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