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Wixams (Bedfordshire) station should be built with 4 platforms

richieb1971

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At whose expense, though? That's what it basically comes down to, as ever.
Whilst Universal will benefit from the station, I am sure it is the TOC's who reap the rewards through ticket sales. Is it the attraction's responsibility to make rail successful or rails responsibility to make the attraction successful?
 
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PGAT

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Whilst Universal will benefit from the station, I am sure it is the TOC's who reap the rewards through ticket sales. Is it the attraction's responsibility to make rail successful or rails responsibility to make the attraction successful?
Yes
 

RailWonderer

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My mind has the fasts on the west side but they are on the east side. Which is not ideal. I guess a huge embankment extension will suffice. Putting a fast platform will mean bending the rail a bit as the station will bulge out.

Wixams will get a Winslow type station unless universal put pen to paper first. For once in my life hopefully it will be done in the right order even if a delay occurs.
All it needs is a decent waiting room rather than bus shelters. It won't get a Brent Cross style station but deserves better than Reston (which is a glorified halt).
 

Bald Rick

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It's because a cheap and short-sighted policy is being pursued to only put platforms on the slow lines, and after 2200 it's a two track railway, like the WCML.

If you're going to build it it needs to have four platforms.

As said above - it isn’t always a two track railway after 2200, and rarely is it a two track railway between Flitwick and Bedford where the slows are closed.

I suspect the ‘2200 no trains’ thing is a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation by those proposing the station.

But - even if it were true - it’s up to the developer. They have to judge what gets their development more value - a 2 platfrom station open at the times that 95% of passengers will use it, or a 4 platform station that will cost at least 3-4 times more that gets that final 5%.

The rhetoric I am hearing, "very few are coming by train, everyone is coming by car"

Again, no one is saying that. What is being said is that *most* people will come by road. Maybe 30% by rail (which is consistent with other high passenger generating locations, such as airports).
 

Brissle Girl

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The 2200 cut off is because the council estimates that to provide buses from
Bedford on the evenings when the slow lines were closed would cost (IIRC) between £0.5m and £1m per year. Which it was not prepared to underwrite.
 

Bald Rick

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The 2200 cut off is because the council estimates that to provide buses from
Bedford on the evenings when the slow lines were closed would cost (IIRC) between £0.5m and £1m per year. Which it was not prepared to underwrite.

Well there’s an obvious answer to that one..
 

Bletchleyite

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Well there’s an obvious answer to that one..

A basic down fast platform would be it. (It's an odd layout - you very rarely get "Ulverston" style layouts in the UK!)

I can see having looked at a plan why an up fast platform would be difficult, but as most late night demand would come from the London direction a down fast would probably do. Asymmetric late services (i.e. a late service from London but not to it) aren't at all unusual, for instance the last Southampton to Waterloo is 2200 but the other way it's 2305.
 
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MML

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Imagine being a resident on the Wixams housing estate. You might be able to walk or cycle to the new train station, but your estate roads will be clogged full of parked vehicles from customers driving from the surrounding area and either choosing free Street parking as opposed to paying the station car park fees or trying to park at the station and being unable to do so because the car park is full. I bet the developers aren't advertising the risk of abandoned parked cars or estate roads lined with double yellow lines on the new housing development to prospective tenants.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Imagine being a resident on the Wixams housing estate. You might be able to walk or cycle to the new train station, but your estate roads will be clogged full of parked vehicles from customers driving from the surrounding area and either choosing free Street parking as opposed to paying the station car park fees or trying to park at the station and being unable to do so because the car park is full. I bet the developers aren't advertising the risk of abandoned parked cars on the estate to prospective tenants.

Where this is an issue parking permits are normally the solution.
 

DaveN

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And Wixams. I don't mind if EWR run with it though. At the end of the day I believe EWR will have 30 min services of 4 coach units. Again perhaps not enough, but between the 2 stations it could work.

View attachment 151519

2 circles represent the 2 stations, the square is the park.

Although it doesn't invalidate your point, Wixams station is actually going to be further north than the circled area on your map.

Universal have bought a large area land. Nearly everything that isn't already built on or under water between the Marston Vale Line, Manor Road, the B530 and the A421 plus a big bit between Manor Road and Stewartby.
 

BeijingDave

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The comparison should be with other theme parks in this country, not Japan. What proportion use rail to get to Alton Towers, Chessington, Thorpe Park or Legoland - fairly low I suspect.
I am sure Alton Towers would have plenty of rail traffic if it was anywhere near a station.
 

Starmill

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The rhetoric I am hearing, "very few are coming by train, everyone is coming by car".
I don't think anyone on the thread has agreed with that statement, it's just that it's a reality of Mmmodern British life under Conservative rule.

It's because a cheap and short-sighted policy is being pursued to only put platforms on the slow lines, and after 2200 it's a two track railway, like the WCML.

If you're going to build it it needs to have four platforms.
I don't even specifically disagree with this, I just wish people would accept that it means a big increase in cost and a consequent increase in public funding.
 
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Helvellyn

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Until Universal make any commitment, including having all planning requirements signed off, you can't build a station on the off chance a plan will happen.

By all means futureproof the design as is for potential build out. But that would then become a condition of the planning permission for Universal to fund (or at least contribute) to that.

This is what is planned in Wellingborough where as part of a new 3,000 home estate to the East of the station a new station entrance and multi-storey car park is build into the development plan (along with completing the missing part of the ring road and major enhancements to two junctions with the A45).
 

DaveN

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Luton to Bedford is also a two track railway on Sunday mornings isn't it? I haven't seen anything to say that Bedford Council are underwriting replacement buses for the few times that the fast lines are being used by Thameslink services on Sunday mornings.
 

Falcon1200

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Local residents would certainly be inconvenienced on occasions when the Slow Lines are closed after 2200, but surely nobody would be travelling to or from the Theme Park at that time?
 

duffield

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I am sure Alton Towers would have plenty of rail traffic if it was anywhere near a station.
It's got a station. No trains, no rails, used as holiday accommodation. But it's got a station. :E

If I was running Alton Towers I'd investigate a joint venture with the Churnet Valley Raiiway to extend to the station to add the steam railway as an attraction.
 

Starmill

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Luton to Bedford is also a two track railway on Sunday mornings isn't it? I haven't seen anything to say that Bedford Council are underwriting replacement buses for the few times that the fast lines are being used by Thameslink services on Sunday mornings.
What's your point here? If you want more buses, even if you only want them one weekend in five or ten or twelve you have to start paying for them. Thameslink aren't going to pay for them out of the goodness of their manager's hearts.

As said above - it isn’t always a two track railway after 2200, and rarely is it a two track railway between Flitwick and Bedford where the slows are closed.
If there's even one day where the necessary lines are closed then either a) the train company will have to do the plan with the relevant weekly changes in the LTP, and have them all known about and coordinated in advance, or b) somebody will have to pay for a bus. I'm not aware of any cases of a happening?
 
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Bald Rick

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If there's even one day where the necessary lines are closed then either a) the train company will have to do the plan with the relevant weekly changes in the LTP, and have them all known about and coordinated in advance, or b) somebody will have to pay for a bus. I'm not aware of any cases of a happening?

or c) advertise at normal timescales for engineering works that there is no service after 2200, and no bus replacement.
 

richieb1971

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It's 1 mile walk from Kempston Hardwick to wixams station. Maybe just use the other station.
 

MML

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It's 1 mile walk from Kempston Hardwick to wixams station. Maybe just use the other station.
2 track railway on the MML so some Sundays only the fasts are in use.
Not possible to call at Wixams.

No Sunday service on the Marston Vale, therefore no service at Kempston Hardwick.

We should really be questioning why has it become so expensive to build a fairly basic station in this country compared to the rather more elaborate stations when the MML was first constructed.
The cost of building new stations appears excessive and is preventing the construction of new stations and upgrade of many existing stations.
 

AlastairFraser

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Imagine being a resident on the Wixams housing estate. You might be able to walk or cycle to the new train station, but your estate roads will be clogged full of parked vehicles from customers driving from the surrounding area and either choosing free Street parking as opposed to paying the station car park fees or trying to park at the station and being unable to do so because the car park is full. I bet the developers aren't advertising the risk of abandoned parked cars or estate roads lined with double yellow lines on the new housing development to prospective tenants.
Unlikely this would be an issue as Bedford is way more attractive for commuters (42 on EMR plus Thameslink as a backup, while you only have Thameslink at Wixams taking approx. 54 mins in).
 

richieb1971

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Kempston Hardwick would likely be served by EWR by the time any park is built. And could be served as early as 2025 2026 as a special request stop if wixams is out of service.

I agree with what someone else said. Provision wixams for easy scope to 4 platforms. That way your safe either way.

My original thoughts were for EWR to bypass Bedford and have a Tamworth double decker station at wixams where the Mml and EWR crossover. It had larger scope for expansion and produced a north east curve on EWR. But the powers that be want to turn money into mass mayhem at Bedford.

I bet in another country in the same situation it would be logically thought through sensibly and built to specification requirements not an over expensive cheap as chips design that barely meets demand in 3 years. These power people literally go out of their way to upset and disappoint.
 

D365

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The comparison should be with other theme parks in this country, not Japan. What proportion use rail to get to Alton Towers, Chessington, Thorpe Park or Legoland - fairly low I suspect.
For what it's worth, I did last year... the "shuttle bus" is certainly far better integrated with Staines station, when compared to Thorpe Park and Stoke/Derby. Albeit far more expensive than any other bus.
 

AlastairFraser

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Kempston Hardwick would likely be served by EWR by the time any park is built. And could be served as early as 2025 2026 as a special request stop if wixams is out of service.

I agree with what someone else said. Provision wixams for easy scope to 4 platforms. That way your safe either way.

My original thoughts were for EWR to bypass Bedford and have a Tamworth double decker station at wixams where the Mml and EWR crossover. It had larger scope for expansion and produced a north east curve on EWR. But the powers that be want to turn money into mass mayhem at Bedford.

I bet in another country in the same situation it would be logically thought through sensibly and built to specification requirements not an over expensive cheap as chips design that barely meets demand in 3 years. These power people literally go out of their way to upset and disappoint.
Crossing at Wixams would mean a different route east of Bedford towards the ECML and Cambridge, there has been enough issues with NIMBYs as it is without starting over to consult on a completely different alignment.
As for the Wixams station plan, Universal can pay for improvements as other posters have suggested - what is important is getting the station open and ideally established before the park opens, likely to be the mid 2030s or later.
Universal may well choose to fund a bigger and better station on the Marston Vale (EWR) anyway as there's more room for service improvement, the MML south of Bedford is very crowded capacity-wise.
 

richieb1971

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My Wixams "Tamworth" style station I came up with 10 years ago. I believe the current route E plans are horrible with the biggest destruction path for the least benefit. Bedford centre is a graveyard and the epicentre of business is moving south. Bedford Midland station maybe where 2 points meet currently on the tracks but it's enclosed by 2 road bridges and has inadequate parking as it is. Someone upstairs thinks EWR through Bedford somehow reignites the flame of Bedford. It's dead already. On other parts of EWR they deliberately miss towns like St Neots.

Where as Wixams has potential to be nearer where everything is developing and exciting, can grow and doesn't knock 3 bridges in Bedford down, 60 homes and railway through Clapham village.

Is it not strange that wixams wants a station and gets mediocrity and Bedford doesn't want anything but gets a mass of destruction order and potentially a bigger station for the benefit of a town that looks like it closed 10 years ago?

Wixams and Kempston Hardwick are adjacent to distribution centres of Sainsbury's and Asda, new Amazon warehousing on the A421, a retail park at Kempston and in the future a brand new world class movie studio near stewartby and potentially a theme park from universal Studios at Wixams / Kempston Hardwick. But they make Bedford Station the priority still.
 

DaveN

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or c) advertise at normal timescales for engineering works that there is no service after 2200, and no bus replacement.
That sounds far too sensible. Clearly the council have been told that by someone in the industry (presumably the Network Rail people that they liaising with) that if its a two platform station they can't have services after 2200 unless the council pay for the buses when required. That is why the council announced it. Perhaps someone "digging their heals in" so that they can retain the flexibility to close the slows at comparatively short notice?

It isn't clear what will happen on the Sunday mornings when the slows are shut. Maybe the same people will insist no services for Wixams until 12:30 on all Sundays unless the council pay for buses when they are needed.

Obviously not having services on Sunday mornings would be of more impact to a theme park operator than services after 2200 (except perhaps for Halloween events).
 

richieb1971

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Someone corrected me in that the station position is south of the road bridge, which looks a bit tighter space there. Is there even room for 4 platforms?
 

Starmill

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or c) advertise at normal timescales for engineering works that there is no service after 2200, and no bus replacement.
I'm not aware of that happening anywhere either. It'd also lead to chargebacks and claims by any season ticket holders because "normal timescale for engineering works" can now mean anything from 8 weeks to 1 day.

I agree that would be an improvement, for example a later Edinburgh - Newcastle each way on a Saturday night could hugely benefit from that kind of arrangement but it's so impractical nobody has tried to go for it until Lumo came along, and they messed it up big time on several occasions.
 

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