dk1
Veteran Member
Wasn’t the 09:52 to do with rig workers returning to Geordieland?
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Scotrail’s alcohol ban - pointless?
- Thread starter williamn
- Start date
Wasn’t the 09:52 to do with rig workers returning to Geordieland?
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Davester50
Member
Only on a Friday with stag and particularly hen dos heading for Newcastle.
The 0952 Monday to Thursday, fire in. The 1101, verboten.
Buzby
Member
It was quite clever - the (then) Strathclyde Police objected that BTP did nothing to stop the mayhem that was to descend on the towns, leaving them primarily to mop up once the ‘carry-outs’ were loaded on the train in readiness. This caused a fair bit of antagonism - so BTP (occasionally) sent uniforms on trains and the destinations, but more usually required anyone with obvious bags of drink to bin it or be refused travel.
I recall a few stand offs where norms were allowed to travel if the containers were unopened (wine, spirits etc) but the neds were not! The ban certainly was appreciated and became permanent as it wasn’t like a ‘Soring Break’ type event - if it was May-October those 6 months were murder.
I recall a few stand offs where norms were allowed to travel if the containers were unopened (wine, spirits etc) but the neds were not! The ban certainly was appreciated and became permanent as it wasn’t like a ‘Soring Break’ type event - if it was May-October those 6 months were murder.
Thankfully the rest of the country takes a more pragmatic view, which is just as well as thousands would be stranded in London on a Thursday night and in York on a Saturday evening.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I can to be fair see a lot of sense in a different policy for long distance services and local ones. I don't think Merseyrail or London Underground's ban on alcohol on board is at all unreasonable - if you can't go half an hour without alcohol what you are is an alcoholic, and it does make significant difference to antisocial behaviour (and simply avoiding the unpleasantness of a can being dropped and the whole train stinking of booze). But it's quite reasonable to want to enjoy an M&S picnic and a couple of glasses of wine while taking 4 hours to do Edinburgh-Inverness or up to Wick.
Thus in ScotRail's case retaining the ban on Glasgow suburbans but getting rid on everything else is probably the right way to go.
Thus in ScotRail's case retaining the ban on Glasgow suburbans but getting rid on everything else is probably the right way to go.
A “petty obsession” which is consistently supported by half the electorate. As for being “anti English”, yes I’m sure there are some but to label half the electorate as such is juvenile nonsense.
Back on topic. I’ve never seen a BTP officer on a train and so it’s effectively unenforceable.
Buzby
Member
How? Msg #33 explains how it was done. What’s next? They’ll be banning Skateboards, scooters and e-bikes next? Oh wait - they did!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Ebikes are not banned.
SussexSeagull
Member
Then you are just encouraging people to drink drive.
Don't get me wrong, drink is a huge contributor to public disorder but if someone gets the train home from a night out and doesn't cause any problems - as the majority do - then I don't see why they should be stopped.
Hate to break it to you but I am not sure over crowding on trains near public events and entrenched sectarianism can entirely be blamed on alcohol consumption.
jagardner1984
Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 692
Well it certainly doesn’t help ! And it certainly makes a mockery of the “anti social behaviour will not be tolerated” auto announcements when you can’t hear them over said chanting. Not generally a problem on busy rush hour trains, so busy services do not necessarily mean unsafe services.
In general it has always seemed to me, in a world of packs of peanuts “may contain nuts” and hot water taps marked “caution: hot” that we are so unbothered by people, particularly in 3rd rail systems, who seem unable to stand up in close proximity to the platform edge, and who I routinely see using services.
Police release videos of drunk passengers falling onto train tracks as warning before Christmas season
Police say over the last decade, 21 people have died died in alcohol-related incidents on station platforms
www.independent.co.uk
Well some can take several hours, in which time some passengers may like a couple of beers or a pre mixed can of gin and tonic.
Then identify certain shorter inter urban routes and prohibit alcohol consumption on those.
Why do you often hear about it then?
Where’s the links to all the stories about unruly behaviour from GWR this Saturday just gone from the England Wales match, I bet it must have been chaos, damages trains and everything.
Well, for most people it’ll have been cheaper to drive, they’ll be able to go home later as the last train will have become earlier and earlier over the last decade if it’s anything like around here. The train will be an order of magnitude less reliable. So sensible people are actually already putting themselves out by using and funding the railway and not risking theirs and others lives driving whilst under the influence but it seems that’s frowned upon in your world.
I suspect the issue you have here is with the alcohol consumption instead rather than its link to the railway.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The vast majority of alcohol related issues on the railway are where it was consumed before the journey, not on it, yes.
Sealink
Member
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2006
- Messages
- 158
Gretna is still in Scotland though... (Although I get your point!)
Maybe some enterprising person will have cruises just outside Scottish jurisdiction!
Buzby
Member
It’s a pretty good enabler though! If it wasn’t for that there wouldn’t be a problem. A shame that those who act responsibly have to suffer - but as the duration is minimal in most cases, we manage to cope.
snookertam
Member
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 781
Had a wee chuckle at the anyone under the influence shouldn’t be getting on a train comment. Pious nonsense.
I used to laugh when people claimed Calvinism is alive and well in Scotland but the persistence with this ban makes me wonder. It’s typical of Scottish government approaches to most issues, skirting round the core issue. There’s an element in the Scottish government who would want the country to be like the nordics, all well and good, but they see the Nordic countries control of alcohol consumption and seek ways to do similar. Only the reason for doing so in the nordics is mainly historical and felt easier to keep in place than change given that it already works so well. Scotland is neither Norway nor Sweden no matter how much we want to be, and our problems with alcohol consumption (and wider issues with drugs and addiction more widely) are societal issues that a ban here and a minimum price there, no matter how well intentioned, will never come close to addressing.
Meanwhile we have on train staff who are wondering if they are supposed to be policing this ban and in most cases, quite understandably, deciding it’s not worth the hassle. If someone was drunk and causing issues on a train, there already existed the powers to do something about it. The ban is pointless, needless political posturing. Anyone complaining about someone having a quiet drink and minding their own business on a train needs to themselves mind their own business.
As for Glasgow area suburban routes, retaining the ban here might be easier as it’s already illegal to drink in public in most local authorities in the west of Scotland, although that is a similarly bizarre rule which punishes those want to relax and enjoy themselves and who would never dream of causing trouble.
I used to laugh when people claimed Calvinism is alive and well in Scotland but the persistence with this ban makes me wonder. It’s typical of Scottish government approaches to most issues, skirting round the core issue. There’s an element in the Scottish government who would want the country to be like the nordics, all well and good, but they see the Nordic countries control of alcohol consumption and seek ways to do similar. Only the reason for doing so in the nordics is mainly historical and felt easier to keep in place than change given that it already works so well. Scotland is neither Norway nor Sweden no matter how much we want to be, and our problems with alcohol consumption (and wider issues with drugs and addiction more widely) are societal issues that a ban here and a minimum price there, no matter how well intentioned, will never come close to addressing.
Meanwhile we have on train staff who are wondering if they are supposed to be policing this ban and in most cases, quite understandably, deciding it’s not worth the hassle. If someone was drunk and causing issues on a train, there already existed the powers to do something about it. The ban is pointless, needless political posturing. Anyone complaining about someone having a quiet drink and minding their own business on a train needs to themselves mind their own business.
As for Glasgow area suburban routes, retaining the ban here might be easier as it’s already illegal to drink in public in most local authorities in the west of Scotland, although that is a similarly bizarre rule which punishes those want to relax and enjoy themselves and who would never dream of causing trouble.
I’m pretty sure entrenched sectarianism is a problem regardless of whether there’s alcohol involved or not. Jesus wept.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's actually a policy applied by Merseyrail since the James St incident, but ironically it largely doesn't prevent issues because the vast majority of Merseyrail stations are not gated. Indeed I witnessed an incident almost identical to* James St at Christmas which was narrowly averted by the train stopping before the drunk nutter had chance to fall under it. The policy is controversial because typical poorly trained staff are applying it to people who have coordination issues due to a disability rather than those who have consumed excess (or any) alcohol.
Crikey, I got out of my car yesterday and pretty much fell onto it and stumbled away. I bet a Merseyrail gateline staff member would have had me arrested for drink driving. The reason was in fact that I'd just done a full day hillwalking and could barely stand up as a result!
* But slightly different from it; the drunk nutter only started leaning/banging on the train after it had been dispatched, so no member of crew had done anything wrong. He then fell up the footbridge (!) before wandering off.
And history could repeat itself!
Carlisle's pubs were nationalised until 1973 to control alcohol consumption related to Scotland - worth checking out!
The railway has a longstanding tradition of silly rules that absolutely nobody has the slightest intention of enforcing; don’t the byelaws prohibit causing a nuisance to other passengers, to quite an obvious one? Anybody seen that being upheld on trainloads of screaming kickball supporters? Or the one that prohibits boarding a train when the doors are closing? I’m sure there’ll be plenty more, and this one fits in nicely.
I can’t imagine SR staff have much time for it, as it very obviously drastically increases the risk of conflict when one passenger orders the guard to enforce the policy against a party of well oiled party animals or similar!
I can’t imagine SR staff have much time for it, as it very obviously drastically increases the risk of conflict when one passenger orders the guard to enforce the policy against a party of well oiled party animals or similar!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I am wondering if I should put pen to paper to compose a new folk song based on an old one....If the moderators will allow a little joviality...
There was a Scotsman, a drunken Scotsman,
Who wondered far away to drink each day,
He became bolder and drank all over.
Even in those hostelries of Garryowen
Oh these Ireland pubs are not my land's pubs
And however good these foreign pints might be,
They are not the pints of home.
There was a Scotsman, a drunken Scotsman,
Who wondered far away to drink each day,
He became bolder and drank all over.
Even in those hostelries of Garryowen
Oh these Ireland pubs are not my land's pubs
And however good these foreign pints might be,
They are not the pints of home.
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I just wonder how else they would get home as taxis won't take them. And what does "under the influence" actually mean? I shall have a pint tonight, maybe two, before catching my train home in the company of other rail user group committee members, all pensioners. But we're talking here about alcohol consumed on the train, which I never do unless bought from the trolley (the last time near Wick!)
Davester50
Member
Exactly.
It's typical middle class meddling; they don't understand the working class, and see the working class as something to be saved from themselves and they know best.
They've gone to Uni, and never had a job outside a narrow political bubble in their lives.
Couldn't agree more.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You're not correct.
Scousemouse
Member
- Joined
- 29 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 66
And of course the one time my friend and I consumed alcohol on the Kyle line (having decanted it into thermos flasks and insulted mugs before hand so as to be a unobtrusive as possible) we got scolded but the TM for causing other people on the train to not enjoy their journey and feel under threat. The only other people in our carriage were a lovely couple with whom we were sharing our tipple.
Absolute load of bollocks the whole thing is.
Absolute load of bollocks the whole thing is.
matchmaker
Established Member
Funnily enough, "drunk and disorderly" isn't an offence in Scotland, except on licenced premises. "Drunk and incapable" has been an offence since at least the beginning of the last century. "Breach of the Peace" can however be used in a very wide range of circumstances...
Was there an issue with the previous policy of no alcohol 2100 - 1000 every day? This was in place until March 2020 I understand, and had been long-standing policy?
I still disagree with such a blanket ban, however, that one didn't really penalise any sensible drinking because you could easily have one or two drinks on your journey and happily finish them just before 2100. The policy meant that everyone knew if they were boarding after 2100 they could hypothetically be searched or denied boarding as being in breach of the Byelaw.
I still disagree with such a blanket ban, however, that one didn't really penalise any sensible drinking because you could easily have one or two drinks on your journey and happily finish them just before 2100. The policy meant that everyone knew if they were boarding after 2100 they could hypothetically be searched or denied boarding as being in breach of the Byelaw.
Buzby
Member
Tragic, isn’t it? Then there’s the abolition of Bridge Tolls, Prescription Charges - yes, we’re really suffering. Not!
Don't forget the income tax hike.
BeijingDave
Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2019
- Messages
- 401
That's actually very easy to do and less impressive (or insane, depending on your perspective) than one may think.
You simply use a canine tooth to put downward pressure on the top of the cap and done correctly it will pop off without damaging any teeth.