In a piece about the resignalling of Cornwall on BBC Radio 4 this morning, the words "rail replacement bus" were described (perhaps tongue in cheek) as three of the most terrifying in the English language! Do others agree? Is there a better term which should be used instead?
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How the term "rail replacement bus" is viewed.
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ivorytoast28
Member
It's not the term, but the having to take a bus and quadruple your journey time that is the issue
Goldfish62
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Assuming the bus turns up and if it doesn't get delayed and misses the train connection at the other end.
chris_in_salop
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Maybe "Super happy fun bus"?
I doubt that the name is a major reason for negative passenger attitudes.
I doubt that the name is a major reason for negative passenger attitudes.
The words themselves are not the problem, it is the experience of having to use them.
I have not used rail replacement buses for many years. I make my journeys on days when I can ride on trains.
Rail replacement buses are fine for people who are young and fit, not conveying much luggage, and with good physical and mental health.
For many of those that are elderly, conveying lots of luggage, or with poor physical or mental health, the rail replacement bus experience is indeed terrifying.
I very much doubt that is the case. France in particular has a number of rural lines where the RRB has become virtually permanent.
Spartacus
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Not really. I've seen plenty of other countries with plenty of rail replacement buses.
RJ
Established Member
A lot of people will have had an experience with a bus not turning up or getting lost and will avoid them like the plague if they have the option to.
Ironically in London the ire isn’t quite the same as they are seen as a faster, free alternative to service buses on some routes.
I would add "and decrease your comfort" to the above. The number of vehicles which are either toiletless or the loo is locked out of service.....
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GatwickDepress
Established Member
The term 'bustitution' seems to be preferred in other English-speaking countries.
The popular image of a rail replacement experience is waiting in the cold, or wet, or dark, for a bus that might or might not come and staff just shrug when asked. When it finally does arrive it's a clapped out Leyland Olympian with benches barely big enough for schoolchildren, rattles like hell, and has an odd and overpowering musk.
These days it's a decent modern service bus or a coach (always fun seeing a London bus in deepest darkest Sussex) and staff information is usually pretty good. The information boards at unstaffed stations showing where to catch an RRB are usually accurate as well and those maps have been very helpful, especially if you're unfamiliar with the area.
Obviously, an RRB will almost always be inferior to a train in terms of comfort, journey time, and facilities, but it's better than nothing at the end of the day.
The popular image of a rail replacement experience is waiting in the cold, or wet, or dark, for a bus that might or might not come and staff just shrug when asked. When it finally does arrive it's a clapped out Leyland Olympian with benches barely big enough for schoolchildren, rattles like hell, and has an odd and overpowering musk.
These days it's a decent modern service bus or a coach (always fun seeing a London bus in deepest darkest Sussex) and staff information is usually pretty good. The information boards at unstaffed stations showing where to catch an RRB are usually accurate as well and those maps have been very helpful, especially if you're unfamiliar with the area.
Obviously, an RRB will almost always be inferior to a train in terms of comfort, journey time, and facilities, but it's better than nothing at the end of the day.
BlueLeanie
Member
Never once had that. Did have kids seating where the seats were almost on the bloody floor though....
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Should be illegal to carry adults in those, the seats are too narrow and the belt mounts too low to use the belt safely as an adult. They are designed for schoolchildren. A couple of rows of 2+2 could be put at the front for teachers.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I don't think we do. Some European countries have many lines that are permanently or long term bustituted!
Ant158
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This is also the reality of travelling on many a Northern Class 150 where the 3/2 seats are practically on the floor! Having worked in schools, 3/2 coach seating is a right pain for school staff who have to be spread out throughout the coach, not just sat in the front 2 rows that whoever designs these layouts expect.
Once got lumbered with 3/2 coach seating for a group f adults heading from Lancashire to Stansted, that was one backbreaking journey!
stevieinselby
Member
For most passengers, the experience will be:
- A lower standard of vehicle than the train they were expecting.
- Significantly extended journey times.
- Hassle around having to change modes, especially when travelling with luggage (which there may not be space for on the bus), often with poor information, long queues and a poor waiting environment - the Brighton Line seems to have taken this to the next level.
- Paying more for the journey than normal (because there will be no advance purchase fares available if there's a gap in the train service) for a worse service.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
TfL has minimum standards for RRBs. They must be fully accessible for a start (even though the rail service they are replacing may not be.........)
Probably because that is what it is used for during the week. One reason why it is difficult to source RRBs on weekdays.
Exactly this. Potentially more cost, absolutely more hassle and increased uncertainty. Something guaranteed to turn away passengers.
Whistler40145
Established Member
My mother said why do I have to pay a Rail fare to travel on a bus. I said it's contractual agreement to provide alternative transport when a service is suspended by engineering work
DelW
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This is of course just anecdotal, but a contrary experience ...
Last Sunday I travelled from Guildford to Reading on a RRB. It was a nearly new coach, comfy leather seats, footrests, and it left on time and arrived a few minutes ahead of schedule (which is admittedly slower than the train would have been).
Coming back on Monday I got to Reading station at about 15:20. Successive Guildford trains were shown as "on time" then "delayed" then disappeared off the boards. Announcements gave the cause as a fallen tree at North Camp. After two hours waiting, I left at 17:30 on the first eastbound train for over 2 & 1/2 hours, a jam-packed turbo.
I know which was my preferred journey!
Last Sunday I travelled from Guildford to Reading on a RRB. It was a nearly new coach, comfy leather seats, footrests, and it left on time and arrived a few minutes ahead of schedule (which is admittedly slower than the train would have been).
Coming back on Monday I got to Reading station at about 15:20. Successive Guildford trains were shown as "on time" then "delayed" then disappeared off the boards. Announcements gave the cause as a fallen tree at North Camp. After two hours waiting, I left at 17:30 on the first eastbound train for over 2 & 1/2 hours, a jam-packed turbo.
I know which was my preferred journey!
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Austria uses them a lot in the summer months - very reliable they are too. The railways are essential in the winter, when many roads are closed, so most maintenance is done in the summer. This is a German one. My tame German-speaker tells me
Scheinen= rail,
ersatz = subsititute,
verkehr = service
You can see why German buses have destination displays extending the full width of the vehicle!
But this is my favourite German destination display
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lookapigeon
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After yesterday's fun times trying to get from Surbiton to Waterloo, three words I can use are "mileage may vary".
The information and signposting to passengers is dreadful. There is no clear signage on each bus as to where which service goes.
There is unreasonable menace on the signage directing you to the buses to tap in or you'll get a penalty fare - yet this rightly confuses people - if say you followed the directions and your final destination was Clapham Junction, how would you tap out, as the buses leave you outside of the gateline at CJ, and you'd be stung by TFL with an incomplete journey max fare?
The temporary staff stationed do not always know what is going on and by the end of the service I asked which bus goes directly to Surbiton nonstop (as on the London bound leg there was one that called directly from Clapham - Surbiton nonstop) and the attendant said get on any at this point. I spied a fairly comfortable mini coach type vhicle that was stopping in Surbiton and got on board, it made for a slightly more pleasant if longer journey than in the morning.
The information and signposting to passengers is dreadful. There is no clear signage on each bus as to where which service goes.
There is unreasonable menace on the signage directing you to the buses to tap in or you'll get a penalty fare - yet this rightly confuses people - if say you followed the directions and your final destination was Clapham Junction, how would you tap out, as the buses leave you outside of the gateline at CJ, and you'd be stung by TFL with an incomplete journey max fare?
The temporary staff stationed do not always know what is going on and by the end of the service I asked which bus goes directly to Surbiton nonstop (as on the London bound leg there was one that called directly from Clapham - Surbiton nonstop) and the attendant said get on any at this point. I spied a fairly comfortable mini coach type vhicle that was stopping in Surbiton and got on board, it made for a slightly more pleasant if longer journey than in the morning.
WelshBluebird
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Based on my experience, a rail replacement bus means:
- It may not turn up at all.
- No live tracking so no hope of even knowing if it is coming.
- Often no staff available to ask for help.
- If it does turn up you may well need to give the driver directions!
- If it does turn up its a pot luck of either an old service bus that rattles and shakes worse than a pacer, a coach fitted with 3 + 2 seating for kids, a minibus, a decent service bus or a decent coach. But it's very much luck of the drawer!
- Bus drivers being given different timetables to the public timetable (this was particularly bad on the Rhondda line closure over the last 10 months).
- Buses stopping at different places to where the ToC has specifically said they should stop at meaning you miss the bus as you were waiting somewhere else.
- Buses not having enough capacity so people are left waiting for the next one.
- Operators using it as an excuse to cut back services more than they need (e.g. with the Rhondda line closure TfW should have run a Cardiff to Pontypridd shuttle in place of the regular Treherbert train - they didn't so the other services going between cardiff and Pontypridd were a lot busier. GWR are also guilty of this when there's replacement buses around Newport and the Severn tunnel).
Certainly not my experience!
Maybe you've been lucky. My last experience a few months ago was a clapped out double decker filled with old chicken bones and diesel fumes. Bad enough that for the first time ever I reported it to the DVSA. It turned up late and there was no information and no staff to ask despite this being the connecting point rather than just an intermediate station. On departure they turned the wrong way and didn't stop in the right place at my destination.
My local station has had various well publicised road closures in the vicinity over the last couple of years that mean the road past the station hasn't always been open. It's basically been anyone's guess where the buses will stop although this hasn't stopped some of the RRB trying to turn down the closed roads.
If there's any information at the station it usually consists of a few amateurish hand written signs taped to the ticket machines.
All of this isn't anything new. It's been my experience of RRB stretching back to BR days (First ever time I caught one we stopped in the middle of town while the driver yelled "does anyone know where the station is?"). At least in this part of the country nothing has ever been done in all that time to improve the experience of using them. My impression is that rail companies now contract everything to do with them out and then wash their hands of all responsibility.
None of this touches on the time penalty which is admittedly largely unavoidable. Although there are probably some ideas which could improve that. So for me they're an absolute last resort and it's certainly not what they're called that's the issue.
ivorytoast28
Member
What are you supposed to do in this situation? There must be a procedure in place for those not on paper/mobile tickets