Three potential new stations in Liverpool City Region

Djgr · 5 Mar 2024

According to today's Liverpool Echo

Plans to open three new Merseyrail stations unveiled

Woodchurch on the Wirral, St Helens and Halton could get new stops by the end of the decade

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

the Metro mayor has announced his plans for three new stations in Liverpool City Region by 2030.

They are (drum roll):

Woodchurch on the Wirral, Carr Mill in St Helens and Daresbury in Halton

RailUK Forums

Vinnym · 5 Mar 2024

Would be more appropriate to sort the mess of the 777s. Must be an election soon.

frodshamfella · 5 Mar 2024

I think their are Mayoral elections in May. Think the first two have been talked about for yonks.

Meerkat · 5 Mar 2024

Woodchurch and Carr Mill make sense, but what's going to serve Daresbury?

frodshamfella · 5 Mar 2024

The old Daresbury Station, I think is in Moore, on the Chester to Warrington line.

TheSel · 5 Mar 2024

Meerkat said:
Woodchurch and Carr Mill make sense, but what's going to serve Daresbury?

Carr Mill, I agree. But Woodchurch? Really? It's been talked about since at least 1968 (as 'Prenton Dell'), but given the high frequency of bus routes directly to Liverpool City Centre, is it really of much use? An additional stop won't exactly help the already tight timing of Bidston - Wrexham services either.

Meerkat · 5 Mar 2024

frodshamfella said:
The old Daresbury Station, I think is in Moore, on the Chester to Warrington line.

I assume the new one would be a P&R on that line by the A558 and science park. But there is no local service so would the operators through there want another stop added, unless they think it will add a lot of Runcorn P&R traffic to Manchester (do they have the spare seats for that and do LCR want to encourage travel to Manchester?)

LNW-GW Joint · 5 Mar 2024

Woodchurch could possibly be served by Merseyrail's 777 battery option, as a terminus, a la Headbolt Lane.
Upton is 1.7 miles from Bidston, Woodchurch would be 3 miles.
Carr Mill is just an extra stop in the Northern Liverpool-Wigan EMUs, in an area of low line speed.
It had a station once (closed in 1917), but there is no sign of it now.

The old Daresbury station (that's Dar- as in Dar-es-Salaam, not as in Dan Dare) still has the remains of its platforms, closed in 1952.
It's easy enough towards Warrington but will be a pig going the other way uphill towards Norton.
The old station site is only 2 miles from Runcorn East and not quite 3 from Warrington BQ.
Recent housing development has been closer to the modern A558 Expressway, which would make a new station attractive from a wider area.
There used to be an adjacent station (Moore) on the parallel WCML, only 100 yards distant from the Chester line station.
Did anybody tell TfW? Another stop won't help long distance journeys North Wales/Chester-Manchester.
It's still rather odd that the North Wales-Manchester Pic/Air trains are all stops, while the new Chester-Manchester Vic-Leeds skips intermediate stops Chester-Warrington, except in the peaks.

Djgr · 5 Mar 2024

Vinnym said:
Would be more appropriate to sort the mess of the 777s. Must be an election soon.

Although none of these will be served by Merseyrail

childwallblues · 5 Mar 2024

On Granada Reports tonight it headlined it as a massive expansion of the Mreseyrail system. I sat upfully expecting announcements like Merseyrail takes over the Borderlands line, extends from Ellesmere Port to Helsby or Northern Line extensions. But no three new stations, two of which as already mentioned have been on the cards for years.
Two stations within Merseyside on the Borderlands Line, Upton and Heswall are not classed as being part of the Merseyrail Wirral Line, Woodchurch would built beween these stations. Will it just become a TfW station?

Djgr · 5 Mar 2024

childwallblues said:
On Granada Reports tonight it headlined it as a massive expansion of the Mreseyrail system. I sat upfully expecting announcements like Merseyrail takes over the Borderlands line, extends from Ellesmere Port to Helsby or Northern Line extensions. But no three new stations, two of which as already mentioned have been on the cards for years.
Two stations within Merseyside on the Borderlands Line, Upton and Heswall are not classed as being part of the Merseyrail Wirral Line, Woodchurch would built beween these stations. Will it just become a TfW station?

If it's not in Liverpool City Region then it's not going to happen. These three new proposed stations all are. Not sure which TOC that serves them is that relevant to this.

Starmill · 5 Mar 2024

TheSel said:
Carr Mill, I agree. But Woodchurch? Really? It's been talked about since at least 1968 (as 'Prenton Dell'), but given the high frequency of bus routes directly to Liverpool City Centre, is it really of much use? An additional stop won't exactly help the already tight timing of Bidston - Wrexham services either.

It's really not that tight that one more stop couldn't work.

Could also quite easily remove the stops at Hawarden Bridge to make time...

childwallblues · 5 Mar 2024

Starmill said:
It's really not that tight that one more stop couldn't work.

Could also quite easily remove the stops at Hawarden Bridge to make time...

My train was booked to stop at Hawarden Bridge today but did not because nobody wanted it. I never knew it was a request stop!

Starmill · 5 Mar 2024

childwallblues said:
My train was booked to stop at Hawarden Bridge today but did not because nobody wanted it. I never knew it was a request stop!

Indeed. It's incredibly rare someone actually boards or alights there.

Bevan Price · 5 Mar 2024

Meerkat said:
I assume the new one would be a P&R on that line by the A558 and science park. But there is no local service so would the operators through there want another stop added, unless they think it will add a lot of Runcorn P&R traffic to Manchester (do they have the spare seats for that and do LCR want to encourage travel to Manchester?)

An extra stop at Daresbury could create overloading problems if TfW keep using so many 2 coach dmus on Manchester / North Wales services.

185 · 5 Mar 2024

Starmill said:
It's really not that tight that one more stop couldn't work. Could also quite easily remove the stops at Hawarden Bridge to make time...

It really shouldn't be a problem if the line is extended to Birkenhead North and the nonsense of expecting staff to run to change ends and no recovery time should be banished forever. There should be three sets on the Wrexham - ~~Bids~~ Birkenhead Norths.

Starmill · 5 Mar 2024

185 said:
It really shouldn't be a problem if the line is extended to Birkenhead North and the nonsense of expecting staff to run to change ends and no recovery time should be banished forever. There should be three sets on the Wrexham - ~~Bids~~ Birkenhead Norths.

Luckily there are already three out.

childwallblues · 6 Mar 2024

Bevan Price said:
An extra stop at Daresbury could create overloading problems if TfW keep using so many 2 coach dmus on Manchester / North Wales services.

Wikipedia does not give the population of Daresbury for 2021 but in 2011 it was 246. I do wonder what usage LCR expect. If the idea is to build a station in Halton my thoughts are that it should have been built at Beechwood on the Halton Curve, an area with plenty of housing.

AL1 · 6 Mar 2024

There is significant house building from the Daresbury Expressway up to and beyond the A56. Added to that of the development of them Daresbury Science Park then there is the potential travel demand . There is also the start of development encroachment at Hatton on the Daresbury/Appleton side .

However, what the future service might be is another matter.

LNW-GW Joint · 6 Mar 2024

Starmill said:
Indeed. It's incredibly rare someone actually boards or alights there.

Separately, there's supposed to be a new station at Deeside, north of Dee Marsh, which would replace Hawarden Bridge.
But that's part of the North Wales Metro proposal, nothing to do with Liverpool City Region.
Off topic but all part of the impact on services into Liverpool.
Incidentally the Welsh minister for transport, Lee Waters, has just resigned (mainly over hostility to his new 20mph roads).

185 · 6 Mar 2024

Daresbury will be due to it's science & research campus (UKRI) which employs 650 staff.

That said, I can't see many of them using the train and the money deserves to go to a residential area.

On the Halton Curve - Beechwood, as mentioned above would be a good idea. There's already a works access point (Beechwood Rd, behind the Martindale bus stop) which would be an easy place for a single platform.

Bletchleyite · 6 Mar 2024

185 said:
That said, I can't see many of them using the train and the money deserves to go to a residential area.

What a bizarre line. People will go from residential areas to there!

scrapy · 6 Mar 2024

185 said:
Daresbury will be due to it's science & research campus (UKRI) which employs 650 staff.

That said, I can't see many of them using the train and the money deserves to go to a residential area.

Also potentially would be a parkway station serving Stockton Heath and south Warrington and parts of Runcorn and the small villages on other side of M56.

Starmill · 6 Mar 2024

childwallblues said:
Wikipedia does not give the population of Daresbury for 2021 but in 2011 it was 246. I do wonder what usage LCR expect. If the idea is to build a station in Halton my thoughts are that it should have been built at Beechwood on the Halton Curve, an area with plenty of housing.

I think they think this site could get some developer funding from the science park and other things nearby. As Beechwood is an existing 'suburb' unfortunately it wouldn't get this. It would clearly have a strong residential catchment though.

Djgr · 6 Mar 2024

scrapy said:
Also potentially would be a parkway station serving Stockton Heath and south Warrington and parts of Runcorn and the small villages on other side of M56.

Don't think this is Liverpool City Region and therefore not in scope

frodshamfella · 6 Mar 2024

Meerkat said:
I assume the new one would be a P&R on that line by the A558 and science park. But there is no local service so would the operators through there want another stop added, unless they think it will add a lot of Runcorn P&R traffic to Manchester (do they have the spare seats for that and do LCR want to encourage travel to Manchester?)

There was plans showing Merseyrail with the 777s reaching Runcorn East via Ellesmere Port and Helsby. I don't really understand the reason for the proposal, I would have thought the first station in the area would be Beechwood on the Halton Curve,

LNW-GW Joint · 6 Mar 2024

Djgr said:
Don't think this is Liverpool City Region and therefore not in scope

Walton is in Warrington, Daresbury and Moore are in Halton (=Liverpool City Region).
The boundary in railway terms is just west of Acton Grange Jn.

Starmill · 6 Mar 2024

LNW-GW Joint said:
Walton is in Warrington, Daresbury and Moore are in Halton (=Liverpool City Region).
The boundary in railway terms is just west of Acton Grange Jn.

It's a shame there isn't the subsidy money to extend the saveaway from Liverpool South Parkway to Runcorn or Hough Green to Widnes, as a minimum. Apparently Rotheram doesn't want to pay for that but is happy to take credit for the building of a new station in Halton.

Djgr · 6 Mar 2024

Starmill said:
It's a shame there isn't the subsidy money to extend the saveaway from Liverpool South Parkway to Runcorn or Hough Green to Widnes, as a minimum. Apparently Rotheram doesn't want to pay for that but is happy to take credit for the building of a new station in Halton.

although I guess the good folk of Halton will benefit from the new station

LNW-GW Joint said:
Walton is in Warrington, Daresbury and Moore are in Halton (=Liverpool City Region).
The boundary in railway terms is just west of Acton Grange Jn.

I know the boundary can be a little fluid e.g., Hooton, although that was much closer to the LCR boundary before Cheshire (Cheshire West and Chester?) made a successful land grab about a decade ago of the land up to the M53.

frodshamfella · 6 Mar 2024

One thing Rotherham should concentrate on is an improvement of transport to the airport. A station would be perfect, but as we aren't in the SE, some sort of dedicated tram / trackless tram from South Parkway. He has hinted on Twitter " watch this space " also an improvement for access to Anfield.

Three potential new stations in Liverpool City Region

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