Avoiding Paddington Peak Restrictions

rjshook · 30 Jan 2024

Years ago I picked up a tip that if you booked from Alexandra Palace to Reading you could travel during the afternoon peak using an off-peak ticket on a fast service - something that wouldn't be allowed with a normal Paddington-Reading OP ticket. I last used this trick in 2019. This is a handy trick if you have a Network Card and are arriving into Kings Cross from up in LNER land and are trying to get home.
Unfortunately it seems that the Lizzie Line introduction has made the AAP-RDG OP ticket subject to Paddngton evening peak rules.

Does anyone know what station(s) can still be used to avoid Paddington evening peak restrictions on OP tickets?

RailUK Forums

island · 30 Jan 2024

Stone Crossing to Reading will do it, though unlikely to be cheaper in most scenarios.

4COR · 30 Jan 2024

You need the fare to not be set by GWR for it to work up the East Coast Mainline: choose the first station on the ECML that's set by GTR for this journey - but, you'd need to weigh up the extra cost here vs the contactless fare between Reading and Paddington ~~(where there is only a morning peak - see: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder)~~ ~~- I believe the contactless fares (2x off peak) are somewhat cheaper (EDIT: Unless you have a Network Card - the Network Card discount isn't usable with the contactless fares AFAIK).~~ Apologies - it's a directional peak in the evening, I'd swapped the start and end.

Your mileage may vary with stations further out than Reading if travelling in the evening peak where there is no contactless fare available.

Hadders · 30 Jan 2024

Just a reminder that train company pricing managers read this area of the forum and disclosing 'workaround fares' on here is likely to see them corrected - and this won't be in the passengers favour.

island · 31 Jan 2024

4COR said:
you'd need to weigh up the extra cost here vs the contactless fare between Reading and Paddington (where there is only a morning peak - see: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder

There is an evening peak fare between Paddington and Reading, and it's more than double.

4COR · 31 Jan 2024

Ah mea culpa - I'd swapped start and end - it's a directional flow. You still need to weigh up the costs if doing one leg off peak, or a single journey as above.

rjshook · 2 Feb 2024

Thanks for the comments. I did a little more digging. Adding to the confusion is that TFL and GWR have two separate sets of fares to Reading.
With TFL for Zone 1 to Reading with Contactless it is £30.40 Peak (morning and afternoon) based on time of day regardless of service used. Off Peak it is £14.70.
With GWR there are a variety of fares and Railcards can be used. PAD-RDG with a Railcard is £15.75 OP and £19.25 Anytime. The OP is subject to O9 Peak restrictions on most fast trains.
As late as 2019, Alexandra Palace to RDG was £15.60 OP and not subject to the O9 restrictions. It is now £18.80 OP and £20.30 Anytime and now subject to O9 restrictions.
With just £1.50 fare difference between OP and Anytime, there is hardly a savings left to be made, the old trick doesn't really have a point any longer.
The suggested Stone Crossing option does not appear to have the O9 Peak restriction however it is £22.95 and so more than a Zone 1 Fare + the £19.25 Anytime.

In the end I did contactless on the Tube and bought the £15.75 PAD-RDG OP fare and found the fastest train that is not on the O9 restrictions. Careful review of the O9 list is worthwhile.
Yet another example of the crazy fare structures, the price difference between TFL contactless fares and NR Railcard fares is huge.

JonathanH · 2 Feb 2024

rjshook said:
Yet another example of the crazy fare structures, the price difference between TFL contactless fares and NR Railcard fares is huge.

At some point, it is likely that the fares will be standardised on the Project Oval structure (broadly as Contactless).

Based on what has been seen in the Phase 1 Project Oval area, at that point it would seem likely that all journeys from Paddington to Reading from stations in the Contactless zone will have an afternoon restriction.

This ticket (off-peak single from Apsley to Reading) has a blanket not valid from London Paddington between 4pm and 7pm restriction - https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=APS&dest=RDG&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=CDS

This ticket (off-peak single from Sevenoaks to Reading) is not valid at any location, including to join a train on a journey already started, between 4pm and 7pm - https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SEV&dest=RDG&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=CDS

Watershed · 2 Feb 2024

JonathanH said:
This ticket (off-peak single from Apsley to Reading) has a blanket not valid from London Paddington between 4pm and 7pm restriction - https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=APS&dest=RDG&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=CDS

Only in the electronic data. That restriction is not reflected in the text of the restriction code, and is therefore not enforceable.

JonathanH said:
This ticket (off-peak single from Sevenoaks to Reading) is not valid at any location, including to join a train on a journey already started, between 4pm and 7pm - https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SEV&dest=RDG&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=CDS

This is a case of the paper ticket being much more onerously restricted than the equivalent PAYG fare. The latter is restricted based on the time of touching in whilst the former is restricted based on the scheduled departure time of all trains en-route. This disparity is yet another way that Railcard holders are being punished with the rollout of PAYG.

mangyiscute · 3 Feb 2024

What would the conclusion be if the published restrictions simply state only valid after 9:29 but then the paddington off peak restrictions are encoded into the unpublished restrictions. From what I remember, the published restrictions are the legally binding ones, so you should be able to use this ticket, but whether this would be accepted at Paddington is the main issue.

infobleep · 3 Feb 2024

Watershed said:
Only in the electronic data. That restriction is not reflected in the text of the restriction code, and is therefore not enforceable.

This is a case of the paper ticket being much more onerously restricted than the equivalent PAYG fare. The latter is restricted based on the time of touching in whilst the former is restricted based on the scheduled departure time of all trains en-route. This disparity is yet another way that Railcard holders are being punished with the rollout of PAYG.

When I had a Guildford to London Zones 2-6 season ticket, if I ever had to travel through zone 1, I would be charged a premium because I couldn't use my Oyster card, unless I got a very slow train from Guildford to Clapham Junction.

As someone once said on here, in reply to one of my comments, there will always be winners and loosers.

Birmingham · 4 Feb 2024

rjshook said:
bought the £15.75 PAD-RDG OP fare and found the fastest train that is not on the O9 restrictions. Careful review of the O9 list is worthwhile.

While this is the case since GWR hasn’t had the restriction updated since the last timetable change, I’m surprised this was accepted at Paddington gateline (which as members will know is a different question to whether the ticket is valid!)

miklcct · 4 Feb 2024

infobleep said:
When I had a Guildford to London Zones 2-6 season ticket, if I ever had to travel through zone 1, I would be charged a premium because I couldn't use my Oyster card, unless I got a very slow train from Guildford to Clapham Junction.

Can't you take a fast train from Guildford to Clapham Junction, get off and tap in there?

infobleep · 4 Feb 2024

miklcct said:
Can't you take a fast train from Guildford to Clapham Junction, get off and tap in there?

Not in the morning peak as back then, between 6:53 and 8:30 there were no fast trains that stopped at Clapahm Junction.

If the 6:52 was running late, even that might skip it, meaning you would need to be on the 6:34.

When the 6:52 skipped Clapham Junction, I don't ever remember them saying you can circulate via London Waterloo.

If I got the 6:52 I'd be OK but if I got the 6:52, I most likely wouldn't be needing to go through Central London as my eventual station was Harrow.

rjshook · 4 Feb 2024

mangyiscute said:
What would the conclusion be if the published restrictions simply state only valid after 9:29 but then the paddington off peak restrictions are encoded into the unpublished restrictions. From what I remember, the published restrictions are the legally binding ones, so you should be able to use this ticket, but whether this would be accepted at Paddington is the main issue.

This 'unpublished restrictions' is a new one for me, yet another level of complexity. My thinking is that if it is not on the published restrictions and you are challenged at the gate line, then the published restrictions must win. When I travelled this week I had the O9 restrictions page ready on my phone if I was challenged.
It looks like Apsley is the answer to my original question having a JK restriction.

Watershed · 4 Feb 2024

rjshook said:
This 'unpublished restrictions' is a new one for me, yet another level of complexity. My thinking is that if it is not on the published restrictions and you are challenged at the gate line, then the published restrictions must win. When I travelled this week I had the O9 restrictions page ready on my phone if I was challenged.
It looks like Apsley is the answer to my original question having a JK restriction.

There are other origins that are cheaper if you're making a day return journey, but yes - Apsley offers possibly the cheapest one-way fare without published evening peak restrictions. Of course, the likes of GWR monitor these forums so I wouldn't be surprised if such restrictions were now added... If you'd like this thread hidden, please report one of your posts and we can do this

As you say, passengers are entitled to rely on either the published restrictions (the link to which is printed on the ticket) or the itinerary they selected when buying their ticket - whichever is more favourable.

RJ · 4 Feb 2024

Seems people in this thread are very desperate to get the restrictions added properly and thus increase the price of travel!

CyrusWuff · 4 Feb 2024

Given Apsley is in-scope for Phase 1 of Project Oval and Reading already accepts CPAY, I would have thought a blanket PM peak restriction would apply in both directions.

That's how the CPAY fares are setup at least.

Llanigraham · 4 Feb 2024

I've come across this restriction occasionally when travelling back to Ludlow, where my normal route (out) is Ludlow, Newport, Paddington.
You can't use the South Wales route back unless your ticket is to a station beyond Swansea, but you can use the Cotswold route because the ticket is beyond Malvern, then changing at Hereford, where you get on the same train if you'd changed at Newport.

73128 · 8 Mar 2024

island said:
There is an evening peak fare between Paddington and Reading, and it's more than double.

But you can use most railcards to reduce the price of a peak paper single.

Doctor Fegg · 8 Mar 2024

Birmingham said:
While this is the case since GWR hasn’t had the restriction updated since the last timetable change, I’m surprised this was accepted at Paddington gateline (which as members will know is a different question to whether the ticket is valid!)

Yes, this is the crux of it. I know a loophole ticket which skirts the evening peak restrictions at Paddington, but I haven't dared try it because of the inevitable argument at the gateline.

4COR · 9 Mar 2024

Doctor Fegg said:
Yes, this is the crux of it. I know a loophole ticket which skirts the evening peak restrictions at Paddington, but I haven't dared try it because of the inevitable argument at the gateline.

Paddington gate staff are notorious for trying to blanket enforce "peak restrictions", even on "non-loophole" tickets...

Avoiding Paddington Peak Restrictions

New Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

New Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

New Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Member

Established Member

Member