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Hornby Live Steam Flying Scotsman model

D6130

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Hi everyone! I'm not really into railway modelling, but a friend of ours is currently clearing her late father's house and wishes to sell his Hornby Live Steam Flying Scotsman model. Looking at Ebay, I see that there are currently two examples for sale....one for £899.99 and one for double that price at £1,800. How rare are these models and how much demand is there for them? Presumably the price requested will depend on age and condition. Any information or suggestions will be gratefully received.
 
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JohnMcL7

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In case you're not aware you can search completed listings on ebay which gives a better idea how many have been sold recently and what price they've been going for, looking at recent sales they appear to have sold for around the £500 mark and in a couple of them they went for best offers rather than the asking price.
 

D6130

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In case you're not aware you can search completed listings on ebay which gives a better idea how many have been sold recently and what price they've been going for, looking at recent sales they appear to have sold for around the £500 mark and in a couple of them they went for best offers rather than the asking price.
Many thanks John.
 

John Webb

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One should bear in mind too that is it the individual loco being sold? Or the complete kit with transformer, controller, oil and other accessories needed to run these relatively unique locos?
 

Trainlog

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Hi everyone! I'm not really into railway modelling, but a friend of ours is currently clearing her late father's house and wishes to sell his Hornby Live Steam Flying Scotsman model. Looking at Ebay, I see that there are currently two examples for sale....one for £899.99 and one for double that price at £1,800. How rare are these models and how much demand is there for them? Presumably the price requested will depend on age and condition. Any information or suggestions will be gratefully received.
As others on this thread have said, it can depend on the loco's condition. If it's the double tender edition, it could be worth a bit more as that is fairly rare these days—the rarest one is probably Papyrus, which can fetch as much as £1500-2000 on eBay.

A basic live steam Scotsman set will cost anywhere from £400 to potentially £800, depending on what the buyer is prepared to pay for it and whether it's complete and in running order.
 

D6130

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As others on this thread have said, it can depend on the loco's condition. If it's the double tender edition, it could be worth a bit more as that is fairly rare these days—the rarest one is probably Papyrus, which can fetch as much as £1500-2000 on eBay.

A basic live steam Scotsman set will cost anywhere from £400 to potentially £800, depending on what the buyer is prepared to pay for it and whether it's complete and in running order.
Many thanks. I'll pass that on.
 

Pub

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currently one for auction at Spicers Auctioners of Old Goole east Yorks. Current bid £250 with an estimate of £200-£300. Auction is on 15 march 2024
The hammer price was £350 plus fees, taken from on line bidding site.
 
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D6130

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currently one for auction at Spicers Auctioners of Old Goole east Yorks. Current bid £250 with an estimate of £200-£300. Auction is on 15 march 2024
Thanks. The late owner's daughter sent me by WhatsApp a new series of photos last night. I wish I knew how to post them on here from my phone! However, from the new photos that she has sent, it's clear that's it's the double tender model - still in its original box - with all the accessories and a certificate of authentication which shows that it is model no. 561 of a limited production run of 1,000. If I can work out - or someone can tell me - how to post the photos on here from my phone, I shall attempt to do so.
 

JohnMcL7

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Thanks. The late owner's daughter sent me by WhatsApp a new series of photos last night. I wish I knew how to post them on here from my phone! However, from the new photos that she has sent, it's clear that's it's the double tender model - still in its original box - with all the accessories and a certificate of authentication which shows that it is model no. 561 of a limited production run of 1,000. If I can work out - or someone can tell me - how to post the photos on here from my phone, I shall attempt to do so.
If you want to e-mail them to me (my e-mail is my username @ gmail.com) I can upload and share them here. If you'd like to do it yourself, if you have a Microsoft account you get a small amount of free storage you can upload the photos to and then choose the embed option which will give you a link you can post here which is one of the most straightforward ways. Imgur is completely free and I think allows hotlinking to images as well, plenty other options but those are a couple I use.

Edit - I've received the photos and posted them here:

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D6130

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If you want to e-mail them to me (my e-mail is my username @ gmail.com) I can upload and share them here. If you'd like to do it yourself, if you have a Microsoft account you get a small amount of free storage you can upload the photos to and then choose the embed option which will give you a link you can post here which is one of the most straightforward ways. Imgur is completely free and I think allows hotlinking to images as well, plenty other options but those are a couple I use.
Thanks @JohnMcL7 . I don't have a Microsoft account, so I'll email them to you and let you do the rest. Much appreciated.
Edit - I've received the photos and posted them here:
Many thanks John. We'll see if they bring forth any further reaction.
 

John Webb

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Thanks @JohnMcL7 . I don't have a Microsoft account, so I'll email them to you and let you do the rest. Much appreciated.

Many thanks John. We'll see if they bring forth any further reaction.
So that is a complete set with all the accessories needed to fill the loco with oil and the tender (where the boiler is) with water, plus the controller and it's power pack. Looks as though it's never been used - even the heat-resistant gloves are there! But no idea of the likely selling price at all!
 

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So that is a complete set with all the accessories needed to fill the loco with oil and the tender (where the boiler is) with water, plus the controller and it's power pack. Looks as though it's never been used - even the heat-resistant gloves are there! But no idea of the likely selling price at all!

It’s a tricky one isn’t it? I don’t know if they ever really took off, but you’d imagine that a complete original set like this could become a bit of a collectors item in a few years time?

I wonder if anyone on the forum has ever used one (or even seen one in action)?
 

Peter C

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I wonder if anyone on the forum has ever used one (or even seen one in action)?
I think there's a small dedicated 'fanbase' for these Live Steam models - I saw a layout at the Great British Model Railway Show back in October 2022 which featured solely these locos:
20221029_111256.jpg20221029_111248.jpg
(Unfortunately these are the only photos I have!)

-Peter :)
 

John Webb

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It’s a tricky one isn’t it? I don’t know if they ever really took off, but you’d imagine that a complete original set like this could become a bit of a collectors item in a few years time?

I wonder if anyone on the forum has ever used one (or even seen one in action)?
Yes, I have 'Mallard' (complete set), 'Flying Scotsman' (bought new) and 'Dwight D Eisenhower' (bought second-hand at the last Chiltern Model Railway show that took place at the St. Albans Arena). I built a small layout on which I could run both ordinary 00 locos and the steam locos, using a form of cab control but with relays under the baseboard to switch the high-current power for the steam locos. The layout is currently out of use as I made the mistake of using the soft Sundeala(?) for the top surface and it really needs a complete rebuild. So every now and then I give them a run on my rolling road, usually as something to do around Christmas/New Year!

The control system is unique. The power to the boiler is varied by using pulse-width modulation and when the throttle lever is moved, the voltage is altered by a set amount depending on the direction the throttle is moved. This is detected by a chip on the loco which activates a servo on the loco which controls a steam flow and direction valve. Thus speed and direction are controllable.

Had they actually made the control system DCC compatible, I think they would have sold many more than they did.
 

Belperpete

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Had they actually made the control system DCC compatible, I think they would have sold many more than they did.

Perhaps, but don't they run on a voltage significantly higher than standard OO stock? I also understand that they leave an oily residue on the track behind them, which is detrimental to the running of standard electrically-powered stock.
 

John Webb

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Perhaps, but don't they run on a voltage significantly higher than standard OO stock? I also understand that they leave an oily residue on the track behind them, which is detrimental to the running of standard electrically-powered stock.
The voltage the Hornby steamers use, peak to peak, is around 15-18 volts. I believe DCC uses circa 15V p-p, so not very dissimilar.
Yes, the locos do 'dribble' and leave oil and water about the place, but provided the track is cleaned after each day's running session, I never found a problem running the two systems together.
 

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Interesting stuff. I must admit that I was tempted with one when they came out and it’s good to see that people are enjoying using them.
 

D6130

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It’s a tricky one isn’t it? I don’t know if they ever really took off, but you’d imagine that a complete original set like this could become a bit of a collectors item in a few years time?
Yes indeed. I do get the impression that our friend's late father bought the model as a collectors' item, rather than to run on a layout. I believe they were first released about 20 years ago....so they may already be considered as collectable.
 

Cowley

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Yes indeed. I do get the impression that our friend's late father bought the model as a collectors' item, rather than to run on a layout. I believe they were first released about 20 years ago....so they may already be considered as collectable.

Having never handled one before I did wonder how the mixture of oil, water, heat and plastics would weather the test of time?
 

John Webb

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Yes indeed. I do get the impression that our friend's late father bought the model as a collectors' item, rather than to run on a layout. I believe they were first released about 20 years ago....so they may already be considered as collectable.
It was 2004 - they were what decided me to get back to railway modelling. I'd been contemplating 00, the larger LGB type garden railway, three-quarter inch to the foot model trams (also in the garden) or joining with a Model Engineering Society for large live steam models. (They had their running track only a couple of miles away from where I live.) It was the Hornby Live Steam that decided me. I started building my layout in November 2004 and from photos it seems the first steam run on the layout was in late August 2005. I can't be more certain - I can't find the box file in which I kept my notes about the building of the layout.

Having never handled one before I did wonder how the mixture of oil, water, heat and plastics would weather the test of time?
The plastics used for the loco and tender bodies differs from the plastic used on ordinary models - it is harder and obviously heat-resistant. I've not noted any problem, other than the body needing a more through clean after an operating session. The cylinders and pistons are lubricated by oil carried through the steam from a 'displacement lubricator' and when the model is starting up from cold it splutters a lot of water and oil around the place. I found it best to warm the loco up with five minutes run on the rolling road before placing it (using the gloves!) on the track. Much easier to control and much less muck on the tracks that way.
 

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@John Webb - Really interesting and thanks for explaining things.

Do they make any noise while operating? I’ve always assumed that you’d just get a gentle, quiet steady hiss but I’ve got no idea to be honest!
 

John Webb

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@John Webb - Really interesting and thanks for explaining things.

Do they make any noise while operating? I’ve always assumed that you’d just get a gentle, quiet steady hiss but I’ve got no idea to be honest!
Particularly when moving off you get the distinct 'chuffs' - at speed it's a 'purring' sound rather than a hiss. As you alter the regulator/throttle control the servo motor whirrs a bit as it adjusts the steam control valve. (Most noticeable when it's running on a rolling road and you're close to it.)
 

Cowley

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Particularly when moving off you get the distinct 'chuffs' - at speed it's a 'purring' sound rather than a hiss. As you alter the regulator/throttle control the servo motor whirrs a bit as it adjusts the steam control valve. (Most noticeable when it's running on a rolling road and you're close to it.)

Ok thanks John.
 

Trainlog

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There is a good series by That Model Railway Guy on YouTube about how to prep and run these, though it's best to see and talk to the 00 gauge live steam group when they attend exhibitions. It was sad that the range was not continued, as there were plans for the next loco to be a black 5.


Personally, I would like to see 009 Live Steam make a comeback when it comes to small-scale Live Steam.

 

Belperpete

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They are the OO Live Steam Group. They exhibit at many of the major exhibitions, including last weekend at Ally Pally. They have their own website, which includes a page of indicative prices based on recent sales: OOLS

I think there's a small dedicated 'fanbase' for these Live Steam models

I was fortunate to have seen Brian Caton, the now-deceased manufacturer of these 009 live steam locos, demonstrating them on his rabbit warren layout. He also had live steam models of the manx locos, but these were slightly bigger than 009 scale.

IoM Live Steam

Personally, I would like to see 009 Live Steam make a comeback when it comes to small-scale Live Steam.
 
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