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Which TOCs are more lenient than others?

R

ruraltravel222

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Hello all,

I've read quite a few threads on here that state that different TOCs have varying levels of leniency when it comes to prosecutions and/or penalty fares.

I'm a regular traveller on LNR services (NMP to EUS) and, aside from ticket barriers, the ticket inspection is non-existent - EMR services which I occasionally use, they inspect all tickets but seem to be very lenient when people (intentionally or not) have the incorrect ticket or are missing their railcard.

In my years of travelling the rails several times a week, including 5 times a week before Covid, I have never seen a penalty fare given out on an LNR service (possibly down to the lack of inspectors), and very few actually administered on an EMR service.

RT
 
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RailUK Forums

SargeNpton

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ruraltravel222 said:
Hello all,

I've read quite a few threads on here that state that different TOCs have varying levels of leniency when it comes to prosecutions and/or penalty fares.

I'm a regular traveller on LNR services (NMP to EUS) and, aside from ticket barriers, the ticket inspection is non-existent - EMR services which I occasionally use, they inspect all tickets but seem to be very lenient when people (intentionally or not) have the incorrect ticket or are missing their railcard.

In my years of travelling the rails several times a week, including 5 times a week before Covid, I have never seen a penalty fare given out on an LNR service (possibly down to the lack of inspectors), and very few actually administered on an EMR service.

RT
Click to expand...
Yesterday's 1656 Euston-Birmingham via Northampton had at least two revenue protection staff on board checking all tickets and railcards.
 
R

ruraltravel222

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SargeNpton said:
Yesterday's 1656 Euston-Birmingham via Northampton had at least two revenue protection staff on board checking all tickets and railcards.
Click to expand...
Granted yes, there may be occasional inspections on LNR services but they are certainly rare.

On some of the post-5pm peak time services it would be impossible for them to get through the overcrowded carriages.
 
B

Bletchleyite

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WMT do have at least one revenue team that does occasional stings (there was a TV programme following them a while ago) but they do seem to be more inclined to use Penalty Fares than Court. This is very much a good thing in my eyes. And while they don't generally check "off platform" at Euston the busier stations are gated, and I've noted the gates in use at Bletchley far more often than in the past.

Unfortunately, though, quite a lot of Bletchley based guards don't do tickets, which means some revenue will be escaping (I suspect a fair bit of people buying Trainline tickets and refunding them when not checked). When you see tickets being done south of Bletchley it's usually one of only 2-3 regular guards who do!
 
S

SCDR_WMR

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The LNWR south revenue team are usually dealing with things south of MKC which is why you've probably not seen them near Northampton. Whereas the north focus on Wolves-Liverpool.

On board penalty fares can only be issued by RPMs so you won't see many. A lot of intel led prosecutions that I've seen at LNWR don't come from PFs now. They come from conductor reports of digital ticketing.

However, they do respond to staff reports so if the conductors bother to do tickets more regularly (like further up the Trent), then you'll likely see them more often too.

Also, the company are very quick to go through ticket history once they are aware of someone so it can take just 1 report from a conductor or revenue for the ball to start rolling.

Bletchleyite said:
When you see tickets being done south of Bletchley it's usually one of only 2-3 regular guards who do!
Click to expand...
Or from Crewe depot.
 
185

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Hard for an operator to force staff to check, when it is delinquent itself - both the big TOCs at Euston frequently allow unchecked passengers to just walk on. One is particularly worse than the other; as such, if the operator isn't pulling it's weight in ensuring gateline checks, you can understand staff reluctance to bother to check too - the barrier (doesn't prevent but) mitigates many problems on board. ORR or the DfT should have been on at these two TOCs years ago - gateline checks would be self funding within the first hour of the day.

Are there any other London termini where you can just walk on?
 
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SCDR_WMR

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185 said:
Hard for an operator to force staff to check, when it is delinquent itself - both the big TOCs at Euston frequently allow unchecked passengers to just walk on. One is particularly worse than the other; as such, if the operator isn't pulling it's weight in ensuring gateline checks, you can understand staff reluctance to bother to check too - the barrier (doesn't prevent but) mitigates many problems on board. ORR or the DfT should have been on at these two TOCs years ago - gateline checks would be self funding within the first hour of the day.

Are there any other London termini where you can just walk on?
Click to expand...
Given that the depot in question has the Silverlink commission which the others do not, and is considerably higher, it really is odd that they don't check more. No barriers is normally better for those who chase ticket sales
 
AlterEgo

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185 said:
Hard for an operator to force staff to check, when it is delinquent itself - both the big TOCs at Euston frequently allow unchecked passengers to just walk on. One is particularly worse than the other; as such, if the operator isn't pulling it's weight in ensuring gateline checks, you can understand staff reluctance to bother to check too - the barrier (doesn't prevent but) mitigates many problems on board. ORR or the DfT should have been on at these two TOCs years ago - gateline checks would be self funding within the first hour of the day.

Are there any other London termini where you can just walk on?
Click to expand...
Paddington has Platform 1, but other than that I am struggling to think of examples.
 
S

SCDR_WMR

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Hopefully the new Area Station Manager for LNWR will get her grips around the issues posted on here, though I'm not sure how much staffing the DfT will fund in regards to ticket checking
 
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gray1404

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Can you imagine if there were barriers (which will reject many valid tickets for the usual reason) for all departures at Euston given how last minute platforms can be announced and people nearly (or sometimes) missing their trains anyway.

Also worth bearing in mind that the idea of getting a Plenty Fare can act as a deterrent and hopefully this does on LNR.
 
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SCDR_WMR

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I don't think Euston would get barriers for all the remaining platforms, but if LNWR could obtain enough of a staffing budget, there's no reason why the Avanti way of ticket checking on the ramps wouldn't work.

Currently not enough platform staff to run efficiently, so would have to be a big budget increase
 
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Bletchleyite

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SCDR_WMR said:
I don't think Euston would get barriers for all the remaining platforms, but if LNWR could obtain enough of a staffing budget, there's no reason why the Avanti way of ticket checking on the ramps wouldn't work.

Currently not enough platform staff to run efficiently, so would have to be a big budget increase
Click to expand...

It was planned to gate 4-7 and 12-15. I don't know what happened to this.

Big changes e.g. gating the whole station were probably deferred to the probably-not-now-happening HS2 rebuild.
 
8

87015

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Bletchleyite said:
It was planned to gate 4-7 and 12-15. I don't know what happened to this.

Big changes e.g. gating the whole station were probably deferred to the probably-not-now-happening HS2 rebuild.
Click to expand...
One big gateline basically under the old departure board all the way across is the plan, still well on the agenda AFAIK. Presumably they’ll block the exit by the cop shop (unhelpfully)
 
C

Class800

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AlterEgo said:
Paddington has Platform 1, but other than that I am struggling to think of examples.
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Paddington platform 8. Plumstead national rail - to Abbey Wood - change to Elizabeth line and can connect through to Slough/St Albans etc without passing gateline
 
H

Hadders

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We see lots of cases in this part of the forum involving West Midlands Trains, there are other operators where we haven't seen a single case this year!

That doesn't mean there isn't more that can be done but onboard checks are only part of revenue protection. The move to digital ticketing means we're increasingly seeing revenue protection done in the 'back office' where ticketing anomalies can be tracked, identified and followed up.
 
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