nors
Member
I will be taking up a management role which can involve safety-critical operational duties. Is it worth joining a union, and if so, which?
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Joining a union as a manager
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driver9000
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At my place management grades are represented by TSSA and I think this is the case across the industry. I would always recommend joining a union.
Although just to clarify, it's open to any individual (with a few exceptions like armed services and police) to join any trade union, even if there isn't a recognition agreement in place for their employer / workplace / grade. While you won't have a workplace rep / steward / whatever they call it, you would still be entitled to some advice / support from the union including (probably) legal representation if something got very unpleasant.
It's fair to say some unions are better than others at representing members who are outside the traditional employer / workplace branch structure. I was a TSSA member in a 'non recognised' role for a few years, but didn't have a need to call on them, so I can't offer any views on how good they are at this.
There is a legal process for getting recognition if enough people are union members and want it, but I'm not clear on the rules for this, and that's possibly getting too far away from this thread.
Yes of course, its just the benefit as you say may be slightly diminished.
Of course any employee is also allowed representation under the company's own procedures, union representative or not. Yes once you get to a certain threshold and there is written permission from a certain % then it can be formed.
PupCuff
Member
TSSA will most likely be the union for you if it's a management grade one.
I'd say it's quite patchy whether people are in TSSA or not, I left a while back because (rightly or wrongly) it felt like they'd put all the effort into their ticket office campaigns at the expense of their management grade staff members.
I don't think I'd re-join a union in the rail industry now to be honest but things may be more active and more positive in your area so seek the views of your new colleagues on it.
fodphil
Member
There is a supervisor section in Aslef, for Driver Managers etc.
There’s not one for each area though. I know there’s a Scottish supervisors section. Not heard of any others.
fodphil
Member
My gaffer in Bristol is in Aslef and so are quite a few other managers on XC with driving competency.
Do they have their own branch though?
Most of the XC managers I know that are still in ASLEF are in the local branch.
fodphil
Member
Im sure there is a supervisors section
There’s no supervisors section in a branch.
When they become managers they just stay in that branch (unless they leave aslef) it can be a pain when ballots go out, as you have to make sure they don’t get one.
It would be a bit odd if they were to come to regular member branch meetings, though, as there’s a potential conflict of interests. I presume there’s an agreement they won’t?
The TSSA are bad at being an effective union. Any pay deal they agree with the Rail Delivery Group can only go through once the RMT agree a separate one.
We never had one come to a branch meeting. Most eventually joined TSSA.
I suspect there will be changes put forward at the next AAD about it.
fodphil
Member
Why?
Gemz91
Member
We had a few managers at our place in ASLEF including an ex-rep. How ever, when the current industrial action started they all left. It was brought up at a branch meeting asking if they could attend, no one seemed sure whether or not they could. Personally I wouldn’t want managers attending branch meetings, that said it’s not long before what’s discussed in branch gets back to management anyway.
renegademaster
Member
In education the SLT from my experience are all in the same unions of normal teachers and often biggest cheerleaders of them , Surprised that isn't similar for the railway. We are both in limbo between public and private sector and the pay negotiation for both is ultimately with Westminster so management has no real reason to be against the unions.
Although outside the railway industry, my union branch has a significant number of manager members who can and do attend branch meetings. They are very good at accepting that the forum isn’t theirs and they are peers of “rank and file”. It is an interesting dynamic and as a rep, I often find them the most insightful members to talk to: They will open up in confidence and can usually appreciate both sides of an argument which makes them really useful to help frame a negotiation.
We represent them on an individual basis when things get sticky but don’t have any collective bargaining for managers.
Interestingly there is a movement within the management grade members to gain “recognition”, plus we have had a number join as new members, i.e. not having a membership carried over from days as a negotiated grade.
nors
Member
Thanks for the info, everyone. I will look more into TSSA.
Not strictly true, Management Grades in TSSA got their pay deal straight away once it was voted to accept. Non-management grades did have to wait until a deal was accepted by RMT members.
Sorry if you thought I was being critical, and yes, to many of us it does almost go without saying. But I have encountered people who didn't realise that joining a union is even an option if there isn't a recognised union in their workplace.