Gloster
Established Member
You are not the only one to have lost confidence in the political system, but we still vote because the alternative is worse.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Keir Starmer and the Labour Party
- Thread starter deltic
- Start date
You are not the only one to have lost confidence in the political system, but we still vote because the alternative is worse.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
The damage will be done before the truth comes out, and that's why the media will be making such a big deal now. It plays into the whole 'no smoke without fire' narrative.
Which is what she should have done in the first place. By not doing so, she has given the Tories a target to go for and a distraction that they welcome with open arms right now.
If I was Starmer, I'd be telling to sort it out one way or the other. I doubt he would shed too many tears if she had to go; he would be worried more about who got elected as her replacement, and an internal battle is the last thing Labour needs right now.
Gloster
Established Member
I have to say that if she has done anything more than the most insignificant misjudgement (although nothing is insignificant to the Mail) she would have to resign as Deputy Leader. If nothing else it would stand against the Conservative MPs who have hung on for dear life after all sorts of shenanigans. However, I remain of the feeling that there is no real story here, just the usual muck slinging.
Im not the person being asked this question, but as a socialist I despair at the current Labour Party and its leadership. Like many people I feel betrayed because I voted for Starmer as leader because I (naively, with hindsight) believed his promises, and felt that he was less likely to be destroyed by the right-wing media as Corbyn was. (Corbyn was and is a good man with many virtues, but discernment and leadership skills not among them).
However, this country is rapidly being destroyed by the un-Conservative quasi-Trumpian Tory party, and I am certain it is vitally important to stop them continuing with their torch-and-burn vindictive policies. I think every decent human being with a vote should use it to elect the MP best placed to defeat the Tories. That will probably result in a Labour government, which is likely to be a pale shadow of any previous such, but at least should stop or at least slow down the rot. And unlike the Tory party which was stripped of any resistance to the pro-Brexit right under Johnson, Labour still has, and is likely to have after the election, a significant number of MPs with some sort of vision.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Indeed Labour should they win will be because voters didn't want the Tories not because they wanted Labour. We need another Attlee a man with vision who changed this country massively for the good of people.
Last edited:
Gloster
Established Member
Attlee!
Enthusiast
Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2019
- Messages
- 1,136
She became an MP at the 2015 GE.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
No.
More over-the-top hyperbole? The Tories are not going to get in again this year. But even if they did, it's not the end of the UK. You'd have 5 more years of a Government that you disagree with. At the end of it, the economy might be slightly worse, or slightly better. Public services will probably be a bit worse. But the UK as a country will be around and surviving just fine.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Maybe, but until the full details of her housing and electoral situations are known, given Ms Rayner's vociferous comments in the past on the tax affairs of Tory politicians, it is not surprising that the media are making the most of this! Did she not have her say on the tax situation of Sunak's wife, perhaps forgetting that this is 2024, not 1924, and women are allowed to manage their own affairs without their husband's oversight?
Not so sure about that. Another five years of a Tory government would undoubtedly be a boon to the Scottish independence movement.
I disagree there, in the sense that the current Tories appear to be only interested in stoking culture wars, have a ridiculous obsession with immigration and asylum-seekers to the exclusion of anything else, and appear to be doing precisely zero to fix the country. The country would, in my opinion, tank if we had five more years of Truss-Sunak policies - based on extrapolation of what we have now.
Replying arbitrarily to one Rayner-related post in order to prevent the dreaded message merge...
I'm not sure exactly what the Daily Mail is on. Yesterday it mounted the savage attack on Rayner, as discussed above.
Today it's now saying as its headline that Labour are trusted more on defence than the Tories.
So if their aim is to keep the Tories in, today's headline is going to swing a lot of ex-Tory voters the wrong way, I suspect!
I know what you're saying and I do agree that Starmer isn't as left-wing, or as anti-Brexit, as I would like. However I also recognise that the only way he can win this year is to capture some votes from the more right-wing or pro-Brexit members of the electorate, so he's got to go along with this kind of politics for now at least.
However, as you then say below, the Tories are so very, very much worse. The Tories of Truss-Sunak have been by far the most right wing government of my lifetime, even including Thatcher which is saying something. They are obsessed with culture-wars and appear to have a fanatical and obsessive dislike of immigration (the smarmy and arrogant Cleverly, for example, is IMO almost as right-wing as Braverman but is just more clever [pun unintentional] at hiding it).
And this is why Labour must get in. They're not perfect, but they are a much better starting point for a road to a more liberal and less right-wing future than Sunak's Tories.
Last edited:
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
Protesters demanding arms embargo on Israel spray Labour HQ with red paint
Demonstrators from the Youth Demand group insisted both the Government and Opposition should commit to preventing supply of weapons to the country.
www.independent.co.uk
These protestors have now been arrested by the Met Police.
I think that's a good point, Labour's lead in the polls seems unbreakable.
Overall, not a great start to the week for Labour.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Has Labour become the Government without my noticing?
I actually agree with the protestors that an arms embargo against Israel would be appropriate given the current circumstances. But - honestly - vandalising the offices of a party that isn't (yet) even the Government and therefore has almost no ability to influence what the Government does? What on Earth do those people think they'll achieve with such mindless, idiotic, criminal, actions? And no matter who the victim is, in a democracy, this kind of vandalism - which someone will now have to pay for to clean up - is not legitimate protest.
I actually agree with the protestors that an arms embargo against Israel would be appropriate given the current circumstances. But - honestly - vandalising the offices of a party that isn't (yet) even the Government and therefore has almost no ability to influence what the Government does? What on Earth do those people think they'll achieve with such mindless, idiotic, criminal, actions? And no matter who the victim is, in a democracy, this kind of vandalism - which someone will now have to pay for to clean up - is not legitimate protest.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Well Tristram, Tarquin and their comrades need to spend their trust fund money on something, they probably don't attack the Tory HQ as it would annoy Daddy's chums at the golf club.
Protesters demanding arms embargo on Israel spray Labour HQ with red paint
Demonstrators from the Youth Demand group insisted both the Government and Opposition should commit to preventing supply of weapons to the country.
These protestors have now been arrested by the Met Police.
I think that's a good point, Labour's lead in the polls seems unbreakable.
Overall, not a great start to the week for Labour.
While I disagree (robustly) with the actions of Netanyahu and the Israeli government, these "protesters" are being the Tories' useful idiots.
Perhaps they're actually Tory supporters, deliberately discrediting Labour, and don't give a damn about Gaza. Who knows.
birchesgreen
Established Member
One of them was listed as being at Oxford, so will probably be the PM by 2040.
brad465
Established Member
"I like to stand outside the gates of Eton and work out which snotty-nosed piece of ****...will be ruining our lives in 20 years' time." - Sean Lock
renegademaster
Member
Maybe its not some big conspiracy and they thought it would be easier to influence labour on the policy
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
Three arrested after protest at Starmer's home - BBC News
Rishi Sunak criticises the demonstration saying: "No MP should be harassed at their own home."
www.bbc.co.uk
Now Youth Demand protestors have gone to Starmer's home, Met Police arrested them. The protest was peaceful (judging by videos of it) and wasn't as violent as the one on Labour HQ.
Still unacceptable though I would say. Protest outside his constituency office, outside Labour HQ, outside Parliament, when he's on some sort of official visit and that's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. But I don't see why MPs shouldn't be able to expect their homes to be not be set upon by protestors.
Surely it would be better to protest at the Tories as they are currently in government?
It's the Tories who have refused to suspend arms to Israel, so protests (non-violent ones of course) should target the Tory HQ and/or the Foreign Office, not Labour or Starmer.
It seems odd to target the wrong people.
If Labour adopt a partisan line when in government, then protests can target Labour. Before that, they should focus on the Tories.
It's the Tories who have refused to suspend arms to Israel, so protests (non-violent ones of course) should target the Tory HQ and/or the Foreign Office, not Labour or Starmer.
It seems odd to target the wrong people.
If Labour adopt a partisan line when in government, then protests can target Labour. Before that, they should focus on the Tories.
renegademaster
Member
They probably, quite rationally think they have no hope of turning the tories
YorkRailFan
On Moderation
Police investigate Rayner over council house sale - BBC News
Labour's deputy leader is accused of failing to properly disclose her main residence in official documents.
www.bbc.co.uk
This investigation will either put this matter to bed once and for all or simply increase it if Rayner is found guilty. I personally welcome the investigation.
Rayner's put her political career on the line here.
Feels like when David Cameron said he'd resign if the UK voted leave in 2016.
Last edited:
Indeed she has, but the likelihood of her being found to have committed a crime is fairly low, at least as far as tax evasion is concerned. Long story short, it's one of the few cases where ignorance of the rules is actually a defence, since evasion requires demonstrated intent.
I thought from the article the police are investigating electoral roll offences rather than tax evasion. Although it is a defence to supplying false information that you didn’t know the information was false, it seems a little unlikely that she didn’t know where she lived.
Hadn't read the article, didn't realise that they'd moved on to electoral roll violations. Makes sense, given that where tax matters are concerned the phrase "glass houses" springs to mind for some reason.
Isn't the crux of the matter simply that she considered her house to still be her home for some time after she got married, since she wasn't living in her husband's house full time?
In which case it sounds like ignorance and nothing really severe should happen in terms of a criminal penalty, though if she broke the law it's best she resigns.
Doesn't stop that sanctimonious creep Shapps from moralising over it though...
And it certainly doesn't make Daly look good, to my mind he's coming over as a distinctly vindictive individual, raising this for political reasons.
A little bit of searching reveals that Daly doesn't seem to have a particularly good character.
Last edited:
I am Labour through and through but in fairness, he is doing exactly what Rayner would be doing if the situation was reversed.
The most worrying aspect for me is that she was so stupid that she didn't get her affairs in order. I'm not sure she is bright enough to be close to government.