• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Artists impressions/mock-ups/etc that never came to fruition?

S

southern442

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
2,197
Location
Surrey
I think this is possibly the best place for this thread, although it maybe doesn't always come under 'history'. I am very intrigued by the concept of trains that were designed but never built. Several, such as the slightly more well-known class 471, recieved actual mock-ups, others like the class 157 were only given a single drawing. Then you also have a lot of concepts for new multiple unit designs recently that popped up in magazine adverts or the occasional article but never got any further than that. This type of thing really interests me, but I can't seem to find many places that have a comprehensive collation of these. If anyone has any particularly memorable ones for them, please post them below!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

N

norbitonflyer

Established Member
Joined
24 Mar 2020
Messages
2,446
Location
SW London
One I do recall was a line drawing of a "Super Deltic", with 4400bhp from two engines, in a body that looked like stretched Class 50. (Which is an interesting flip of the prototype "50", i.e DP2, which had a class 50 engine in a Deltic body.

There were also artists impressions of a class 88 freight loco in the late 1970s (a straight-electric version of the 58), and a class 93 intended for the WCML (Inter City 250) in the early 90s. (model in the NRM)
1024px-A_mock-up_of_the_Class_93_at_the_National_Railway_Museum%2C_York.jpg
 
R

Rescars

Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
1,177
Location
Surrey
IIRC Bulleid, in part inspired by Gresley's A4, had a go at streamlining a Schools class (no 935, but renumbered 999 for this experiment). I think the project got no further than a plywood and canvas mock-up before being abandoned.
 
Cowley

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,810
Location
Devon
There’s some very interesting stuff on this site:

Which was actually linked by @OuterDistant in a thread from 2021. Although what I was searching for was a vague memory of there initially being an alternative front end design for the class 60s featuring a French style cab front with raked back windscreens.

Does anyone else remember seeing that?
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,348
Cowley said:
Although what I was searching for was a vague memory of there initially being an alternative front end design for the class 60s featuring a French style cab front with raked back windscreens.

Does anyone else remember seeing that?
Click to expand...
Yes! In the October 1987 "Rail Enthusiast" (back when it was a magazine worth buying) there were the images below of the mock up and artists impression. The design was inspired by the French electric locos of the late 1960s and 1970s (CC6500, BB7200, BB15000, CC21000, BB22200).

1711906792388.png1711906851292.png
 
Western 52

Western 52

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
1,128
Location
Burry Port
BR proposed a class 38 locomotive, in the 1980s I think. Were the class 37/9 rebuilds a testbed for class 38? Of course they refurbished many 37s, so probably then no need for a 38.
 
Cowley

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,810
Location
Devon
43096 said:
Yes! In the October 1987 "Rail Enthusiast" (back when it was a magazine worth buying) there were the images below of the mock up and artists impression. The design was inspired by the French electric locos of the late 1960s and 1970s (CC6500, BB7200, BB15000, CC21000, BB22200).

View attachment 155493View attachment 155494
Click to expand...

Oh you are the man! Well done for finding that. :lol:
 
Strathclyder

Strathclyder

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
3,235
Location
Clydebank
The Class 157 is one that immediately springs to my mind, as mentioned in the OP. To be built by Hunslet and would've helped oust the remaining 1st-gen DMUs (all 101s by 1994) from the Strathclyde area had they been built. The sole artist's impression has the unit in the then current Strathclyde Orange & Black. Had the order gone ahead as planned, they would've been the last new units outshopped in that livery, as Carmine & Cream was introduced in 1996 on a 156 and 320/3.

On that token, I honestly wonder what they would've looked like in Carmine/Cream...
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,348
Western 52 said:
BR proposed a class 38 locomotive, in the 1980s I think. Were the class 37/9 rebuilds a testbed for class 38? Of course they refurbished many 37s, so probably then no need for a 38.
Click to expand...
The Class 37/9s were testbeds for the Ruston and Mirrlees power units that would have been contenders for the Class 38 order. Ultimately Railfreight decided they wanted heavy haul locos (after seeing the success of the Class 59s) and eventually ordered Class 60.
 
30907

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,119
Location
Airedale
Rescars said:
IIRC Bulleid, in part inspired by Gresley's A4, had a go at streamlining a Schools class (no 935, but renumbered 999 for this experiment). I think the project got no further than a plywood and canvas mock-up before being abandoned.
Click to expand...
Correct.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sch...e-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=j31eyGlLaRbQ6M&vssid=l

I suppose it depends on your definition of "designed" - many CMEs (or their offices) will have produced outline drawings of possible locos, such as the Maunsell 4-8-0 or the Bulleid 4-8-2/2-8-2. Do those count?
 
32475

32475

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2019
Messages
745
Location
Sandwich
A 1964 model from the studio of Wilkes & Ashmore of what was to become the APT. It’s clearly influenced by the Japanese Bullet Train of the same era
IMG_8330.jpeg

Also from Wilkes & Ashmore are some pre-production cab designs for the Class 55 Deltics. Not quite as built but not far from.
IMG_8329.jpegIMG_8328.jpeg
 
Last edited:
R

Rescars

Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
1,177
Location
Surrey
30907 said:
Correct.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sch...e-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=j31eyGlLaRbQ6M&vssid=l

I suppose it depends on your definition of "designed" - many CMEs (or their offices) will have produced outline drawings of possible locos, such as the Maunsell 4-8-0 or the Bulleid 4-8-2/2-8-2. Do those count?
Click to expand...
Or indeed Deeley's compound 4-6-0, which would have enabled the Midland to move away from its "small engine policy", with all the associated issues created by lots of double-heading.
 
D

Davester50

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
709
Location
UK
43096 said:
Yes! In the October 1987 "Rail Enthusiast" (back when it was a magazine worth buying) there were the images below of the mock up and artists impression. The design was inspired by the French electric locos of the late 1960s and 1970s (CC6500, BB7200, BB15000, CC21000, BB22200).

View attachment 155493View attachment 155494
Click to expand...
I've seen the one on the right before from Rail Enthusiast and wished that was the production version, but never the one on the left, which is, err, not as good. Just looks more like a badly styled tamper.
 
43096

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,348
Davester50 said:
I've seen the one on the right before from Rail Enthusiast and wished that was the production version, but never the one on the left, which is, err, not as good. Just looks more like a badly styled tamper.
Click to expand...
I think it's the same design, just a different angle?

If they were going to do it, make it a proper nose, like the French designs.
 
Sun Chariot

Sun Chariot

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2009
Messages
1,407
Location
2 miles and 50 years away from the Longmoor Milita
The APT-E didn’t always have a wedged shaped front. Top of this linked page, http://www.old-dalby.com/apt-e.htm is the mock up with a far more voluptuous front.


Gresley's V2 started out a rather different shape, before any construction started: https://www.lner.info/locos/V/v2.php

"The first five V2s were ordered in May 1935, although the final appearance was still being decided. In August 1935 a diagram was prepared featuring A4-style streamlining. This diagram featured a larger firebox resulting in a boiler 1ft longer."
 
Last edited:
Bevan Price

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,352
E.S. Cox's book "Locomotive Panorama" (Volumes 1 &2) contains drawings of several LMSR steam designs that were never built. Those included Fowler 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 (for freight), and Stanier's streamlined 4-6-4s.
 
Springs Branch

Springs Branch

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
1,432
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
An example of artistically depicted rolling stock which never came to fruition was the Class 316 EMU for the Manchester Picc-Vic tunnel.

To be fair, the example below is not a bad rendition of a PEP-family suburban unit - although the carriage sides do look to be more influenced by LU sub -surface stock than a 314, 315 or 507.
en.wikipedia.org

File:Picc-Vic rolling stock Class 316 artist's impression.jpg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In similar Picc-Vic vein is this earlier artist's impression showing a straight-out-of-the-box LU Victoria Line 1967-Stock tube train at an underground station in Manchester. Apparently from SELNEC publicity material dated 1971 and executed with the zeitgeist of the early 1970s.
en.wikipedia.org

Picc-Vic tunnel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
R

Recessio

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2019
Messages
670
Class 424 Networker Classic. Essentially an old BR slam-door chassis with a Turbostar/Clubman body thrown on top. Got as far as one carriage being converted and shown off at Victoria Station, but in the end no orders went ahead (I've heard, but cannot source, that there problems with "grandfathering" some of the older systems to modern regulations, and that despite a target of being a quarter of the cost, it turned out to be not that much cheaper than just getting a new train).

en.m.wikipedia.org

British Rail Class 424 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Ashley Hill

Ashley Hill

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
3,297
Location
The West Country
IMG_1658.jpeg
This artist’s impression of a proposed Fell locomotive appeared in vol 23 no2 of Backtrack showing a very streamlined loco with Southern lettering.
From the collection of Michael Rutherford
 
G

gg1

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2011
Messages
1,914
Location
Birmingham
Ashley Hill said:
View attachment 157122
This artist’s impression of a proposed Fell locomotive appeared in vol 23 no2 of Backtrack showing a very streamlined loco with Southern lettering.
From the collection of Michael Rutherford
Click to expand...
I've seen all the other images in this thread before but that's a new one for me. The front reminds me of the LMS Coronation Class.

Interesting that a single cab configuration was considered for such a large loco.
 
R

Rescars

Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
1,177
Location
Surrey
gg1 said:
I've seen all the other images in this thread before but that's a new one for me. The front reminds me of the LMS Coronation Class.

Interesting that a single cab configuration was considered for such a large loco.
Click to expand...
Seems a backward step to have gone for a single cab, given the design of 10100. Was this intended for use on the Southern? Other SR diesels (shunters excepted) and electrics had dual cabs. Even the Leader had two driving cabs - even if one of them was too hot for comfort.
 
Ashley Hill

Ashley Hill

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
3,297
Location
The West Country
Here’s the caption from that magazine.
IMG_1658.jpeg

And here’s a section from the Wiki entry on Sir Harry Ricardo which mentions this…

In the 1950s, the company worked with the railway locomotive designer, Lieutenant Colonel Louis Frederick Rudston Fell, to develop an engine for the 4-8-4 Fell locomotive
 
R

Rescars

Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
1,177
Location
Surrey
This is intriguing. AIUI, 10100 was built at Derby, the project being agreed by Ivatt of the LMS. Does this drawing of a Southern version suggest that Fell may have been trying to interest other CMEs in his ideas as well? The artist seems to have captured 10100's 4-4-4-4 wheel arrangement pretty accurately, so this aspect was presumably finalised quite early on. The single-cab air-smoothed design is not unlike some of the West Country articulated tank designs which were sketched out as a precursor to the development of Leader.
 
Ashley Hill

Ashley Hill

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
3,297
Location
The West Country
Rescars said:
the project being agreed by Ivatt of the LMS. Does this drawing of a Southern version suggest that Fell may have been trying to interest other CMEs in his ideas as well?
Click to expand...

I believe Bulleid was Henry Ivatts son in law. Maybe George Ivatt had some influence in this.
 
T

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,118
Rescars said:
Seems a backward step to have gone for a single cab, given the design of 10100. Was this intended for use on the Southern? Other SR diesels (shunters excepted) and electrics had dual cabs. Even the Leader had two driving cabs - even if one of them was too hot for comfort.
Click to expand...
Not particularly at the time. The universal USA Road Switchers of the 1950s had one cab, at about the quarter-way position, and the initial ones from multiple manufacturers had the driving controls configured "long hood forward", that is with the cab towards the rear. It was later that some (not all) were switched round. The Norfolk & Western, and the Southern, stuck with this into the 1980s. There are a range of reasons given why. English Electric followed this with various export models to the Commonwealth. I don't know how BR D82xx and D84xx, similar arrangement, were configured, but they seem to have many photos operating long hood forward.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top