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Network Rail hopes staff will be 'amateur meteorologists'
- Thread starter CarrotPie
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dosbod stuey
Member
The number of weather-related disasters has actually been tumbling for quite some time.
CaptainHaddock
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Indeed. A cynic might suggest that "climate change" is a convenient excuse rather than cutting costs (and staff) via the "Modernising Maintenance" reorganisation.
Sun Chariot
Established Member
I forecast a storm brewing on this one 
But has the number of weather-related minor incidents? Without wanting to jinx anything, the number of disasters full stop is now thankfully near zero (ok - depends on your definition of a disaster).
Thank you #CarrotPie- this should be of interest to all.
Everyone, however humble, has a duty of care and should therefore feel able (duty bound?) to pass on concerns (and without fear of having their concerns ignored or ridiculed). I recognise that seaweed has its limitations, but insufficient attention to weather was a contributory factor in the Carmont tragedy, with deaths resulting. Network Rail has insufficient resources to deal with all it should, as recent landslips and line closures at Baildon, Castleford, Culham, Yarnton, New Mills, Grange-over-Sands, ... sadly testify.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Even a well-known weather professional did not forecast that Great Storm of 1987 so what hope do "amateur" NR employees have....?
So "train" to "rain" you say? Looks like a 20% cut to me.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Long tradition of staff reporting weather conditions - from the SM at Crosby Garrett on the S&C doing reports for the Met Office , to a more local report of the LT supervisor at Amersham, reporting temperatures to the Control to decide whether (pun) ice precautions should be instigated.
SargeNpton
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The biggest factor at Carmont was the lack of supervision on the drainage work that was supposed to prevent it - with the contractors not carrying out the work to specification and no one in Network Rail inspecting the work afterwards.
Bantamzen
Established Member
If only we had some sort of official meteorological department that could supply this kind of data...
<cough> https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/ <splutter>
<cough> https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/ <splutter>
Have minor incidents actually increased or do modern Safety procedures require line blockages more often &/or for longer periods nowadays.
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Sly Old Fox
Member
Are staff being paid extra for this? If not, why should they get involved? They aren’t experts.
What’s your terminology of “disaster”? I believe that the number of incidents caused by weather issues has grown - happy to be correct by delay/performance data to the contrary - which has caused significant but perhaps only low-level / mid-level disruption.
Let’s not forget that the tragic deaths at Carmont were due to a torrential downpour (exacerbated by poor drainage).
There don’t have to be “disasters” for it to have a considerable impact.
D6130
Established Member
....not to mention Ribblehead.
Contrary to popular belief a storm was forecast (albeit not quite the severity)just the infamous line about it “not being a hurricane” was a classic case of poor expectations management.
Plus weather forecasting has moved on considerably in nearly 40 years.
A poor choice of wording, obviously. Look at the next line of that report: "It wants to help staff to interpret weather forecasts to make better decisions during storms or heatwaves."
So the idea is to equip their staff, who have to make use of weather forecasts and meteorological data in the decisions they make at work, with a bit of basic knowledge. As educated consumers of these inputs, they should understand the terminology, and the basics of the processes involved.
It's a bit like most users of this forum, who are not railway professionals. Over time, you work out (or sometimes ask about) the meaning of words, how stuff works, etc. Then you get more out of what you read here.
Or a company that specialises in weather risk management:
European Weather Risk Management for Insurers - EuroTempest
EuroTempest is the leading provider in Europe of operational weather risk management services to the insurance industry.
www.eurotempest.ltd
The "hurricane" reference was referring to a hurricane that was at the time located in and around the Caribbean/Bahamas and was referring to the question of whether it would hit Florida, after someone had contacted the BBC inquiring about it because their mother was on holiday there.
bramling
Veteran Member
“Amateur meteorologists”?
Are we *really* happy about potentially safety-critical decisions being made by (their own words) amateurs?
YorkshireBear
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As an example engineers have to make decisions based on the weather. So to help them make better decisions, upskilling their knowledge at understanding the weather to make more informed decisions.
The met office are not engineers so saying we have the met office doesn't really work. I wouldn't expect mainstream news articles to outline the nuances of what NR are actually suggesting.
As someone involved in making decisions based on weather who is not a meteorologist I think this is a very very good thing.
The met office are not engineers so saying we have the met office doesn't really work. I wouldn't expect mainstream news articles to outline the nuances of what NR are actually suggesting.
As someone involved in making decisions based on weather who is not a meteorologist I think this is a very very good thing.
Mcr Warrior
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Indeed. Thought that hurricanes (or tropical cyclones) were essentially always tropical/subtropical weather phenomena. So the October 1987 Great Storm, which badly affected parts of the UK, may have seen hurricane force winds, but wasn't actually a "hurricane" as such.
No! It’s surely likely to lead to more disruption due to staff being ultra cautious, as I would be if put into that situation as a non expert. No different to when a signaller asks if I think a rough ride I’ve just reported is safe for trains to run over. I’m not a structural or p-way engineer, so I’ll only ever say no!
It won’t work like that, as per the article:
Indeed but the manner in which it was broadcast somewhat played down the matter to the audience that a severe storm was still potentially on the way.
More the way the clip has been presented afterwards - cutting the line “but it will be very windy so take care” (or words to that effect) - which back then was. Tantamount to a weather warning today.
(Typing on a very bumpy bus!!!)
Deepgreen
Established Member
An urban myth - Michael Fish DID forecast very damaging winds but said, rightly, that it was not defined as a hurricane owing to the defintion requiring a sustained wind speed (rather than gusts) which was not achieved. The gusts, of course, were what really mattered.
Adrian1980uk
Member
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Surely they can't be amateurs as they will be getting paid to do it..
Deepgreen
Established Member
A recent example of the requirement to interpret weather forcasts well was when a wind storm was forecast for southern England but with the worst in the west. However, my local line, the North Downs, was simply closed that day owing to the perceived threat of damaging winds, which never materialised as they were, as forecast, in the west. The whole issue is not helped by the BBC's very poor consistency of forecasting between its different outputs, the web pages being notorious for not agreeing with themselves!