"Out of form" (i.e. non-ADL) Stagecoach orders

py_megapixel · 4 Apr 2024

This has changed somewhat in the last year or two, but it was for a long time the case that Stagecoach ordered the large majority of their buses from Alexander Dennis Limited, and when they went elsewhere it was usually because the ADL range didn't offer anything suitable.

I was a little surprised, then, to learn that Ecclesfield depot in Sheffield has a fleet of Wrightbus Streetlites. At first I assumed these were a transfer from elsewhere for some reason, but looking back through photos online it does appear that they were new to Stagecoach. Does anyone know why the Streetlite was chosen here over the ADL competitor (presumably one of the longer versions of the E200MMC)?

Also what other examples are there of non-ADL vehicles new to Stagecoach?

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cnjb8 · 4 Apr 2024

py_megapixel said:
This has changed somewhat in the last year or two, but it was for a long time the case that Stagecoach ordered the large majority of their buses from Alexander Dennis Limited, and when they went elsewhere it was usually because the ADL range didn't offer anything suitable.

I was a little surprised, then, to learn that Ecclesfield depot in Sheffield has a fleet of Wrightbus Streetlites. At first I assumed these were a transfer from elsewhere for some reason, but looking back through photos online it does appear that they were new to Stagecoach. Does anyone know why the Streetlite was chosen here over the ADL competitor (presumably one of the longer versions of the E200MMC)?

Also what other examples are there of non-ADL vehicles new to Stagecoach?

The Ecclesfield StreetLites were ordered by the South Yorkshire PTE and not Stagecoach. They also wanted hybrid buses and ADL didn't make a single-deck hybrid at that point

Blindtraveler · 4 Apr 2024

The Mercedes sprinters were certainly different but again this is an example of a d l and probably optare not being able to offer quite what they wanted

There have been various Volvo saloons and then later some xlb double decks for the Cambridge misguided busway over the years

DanNCL · 4 Apr 2024

Stagecoach had some East Lancs Kinetic bodied MANs for a while. Delivered new to Stagecoach in Scotland, later transferred to South Yorkshire then finished their working lives in the North East.

There was also the short-lived batch of Designline vehicles in Newcastle for the now defunct Q1/Q2. Delivered new to Stagecoach, lasted 5 years on the Q1/Q2 until the contract was lost to Go North East, at which point they then saw a brief spell on the 18 before being withdrawn and scrapped.

Another one I can think of is the open top Streetdecks in Cumbria which Stagecoach ordered new.

fgwrich · 4 Apr 2024

Another quirk and change to form happened in 2011 / 2012 when a batch of wheel forward streetlights were ordered. They spent a year touring the UK carrying the Olympic Torch runners before working in South Wales. At the time a break from the conventional Optare Solo ordering for vehicles of that size.

GCH100 · 4 Apr 2024

There were also the 30 Volvo B5LH, Wrightbus Gemini 2 vehicles in London, that were leased from Volvo on a 5 year lease, from 2014, and later sold on to Arriva London, in 2019, when they were returned from lease.

Man of Kent · 4 Apr 2024

DanNCL said:
Stagecoach had some East Lancs Kinetic bodied MANs for a while. Delivered new to Stagecoach in Scotland, later transferred to South Yorkshire then finished their working lives in the North East.

There was also the short-lived batch of Designline vehicles in Newcastle for the now defunct Q1/Q2. Delivered new to Stagecoach, lasted 5 years on the Q1/Q2 until the contract was lost to Go North East, at which point they then saw a brief spell on the 18 before being withdrawn and scrapped.

Another one I can think of is the open top Streetdecks in Cumbria which Stagecoach ordered new.

The Designlines were ordered by Tyne & Wear PTE and went with the Quaylink contract.

I have a vague recollection that the Kinetics were ordered by Strathclyde PTE and were originally for Ayr-Girvan-Stranraer and associated services.

And the open tops (also to be found in Cambridge) are Volvo/Geminis, not Streetdecks.

Strathclyder · 4 Apr 2024

The 8 Streetlites on the Isle of Arran were ordered by SPT and delivered in early 2015 to replace the last PSes/B10Ms working on the island. They have worked on the mainland more than once though.

JD2168 · 4 Apr 2024

cnjb8 said:
The Ecclesfield StreetLites were ordered by the South Yorkshire PTE and not Stagecoach. They also wanted hybrid buses and ADL didn't make a single-deck hybrid at that point

If you look at the registration of the Ecclesfield StreetLite’s the First StreetLite’s (63901 onwards) follow on from the last of the Stagecoach versions. It was strange that they are in the 3 series as they are B45f I would have thought they would be in the 2 series. They are also the only full sized StreetLite’s within Stagecoach.

Other oddities that ended up with full Stagecoach interior were the MAN Evolutions at Stagecoach Yorkshire which I believe were so far along the build Stagecoach couldn’t cancel the order but changed the interior to Stagecoach spec. They also had Voith gearboxes & were very tuneful.

There are also the Volvo B5TL Gemini 3 open toppers on Sightseeing & in Cumbria.

Slightly unusual compared to normal are the ex Cambridge Park & Ride Enviro 400’s which mostly ended up at East Midlands which are full height rather than the more usual low height. Not sure if Stagecoach outside London had full height versions from new.

cnjb8 · 4 Apr 2024

JD2168 said:
If you look at the registration of the Ecclesfield StreetLite’s the First StreetLite’s (63901 onwards) follow on from the last of the Stagecoach versions. It was strange that they are in the 3 series as they are B45f I would have thought they would be in the 2 series. They are also the only full sized StreetLite’s within Stagecoach.

Other oddities that ended up with full Stagecoach interior were the MAN Evolutions at Stagecoach Yorkshire which I believe were so far along the build Stagecoach couldn’t cancel the order but changed the interior to Stagecoach spec. They also had Voith gearboxes & were very tuneful.

There are also the Volvo B5TL Gemini 3 open toppers on Sightseeing & in Cumbria.

Slightly unusual compared to normal are the ex Cambridge Park & Ride Enviro 400’s which mostly ended up at East Midlands which are full height rather than the more usual low height. Not sure if Stagecoach outside London had full height versions from new.

The First hybrid StreetLites were also ordered by the PTE along with their hybrid Streetdecks

markymark2000 · 5 Apr 2024

Stagecoach South Wales has the Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora's which I presume were ordered because they needed something fuel efficient and reliable for 4 hours of straight running through lots of mountainous terrain.

Blindtraveler · 5 Apr 2024

markymark2000 said:
Stagecoach South Wales has the Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora's which I presume were ordered because they needed something fuel efficient and reliable for 4 hours of straight running through lots of mountainous terrain.

I I believe that various incarnations of a d l vehicle a tried on some of these routes, the numbers of which I now can't remember prior to these coming and proved not brilliant, prior to that I'm led to understand that the same roots were one of the last anywhere that you could regularly see stage coaches Alexander pPS B10m at work

There's also another couple of batches of B5TL hybrids at work in Tayside

cactustwirly · 5 Apr 2024

Haven't stagecoach placed a big order of Electric Volvo BZL buses?

Goldfish62 · 5 Apr 2024

cactustwirly said:
Haven't stagecoach placed a big order of Electric Volvo BZL buses?

Yes, 170 for Stockport.

Plus there are large quantities of BZLs and Electroliners being delivered to Stagecoach London.

Trainguy34 · 5 Apr 2024

Stagecoach South East have:

16x Ex-Stagecoach London Scania Omnicities, some of which came via Stagecoach Cambridge. (Can't remember if Scania/ADL are the same thing...)

17x Dennis Dart (Used to be more, scrapped), at least some of which came from Stagecoach Midlands

2x Optare Solo SRs, both coming from Stagecoach Manchester last year (One may be Spare Parts?)

3x Mercedes Sprinters, all originally from the Little & Often fleet that temporarily went to Kilmarnock, Perth and Cumbria. Used to be a lot more when they ran Little & Often in Ashford, however all have left and I don't know where they run know.

21x Optare Solos, all I believe brought for Kent.

duncombec · 5 Apr 2024

Trainguy34 said:
Stagecoach South East have:

16x Ex-Stagecoach London Scania Omnicities, some of which came via Stagecoach Cambridge. (Can't remember if Scania/ADL are the same thing...)

The Scania Omnicities were purchased when the London operation had been sold and operated under the "East London Bus Group" name. They thus weren't new to Stagecoach.

Trainguy34 said:
17x Dennis Dart (Used to be more, scrapped), at least some of which came from Stagecoach Midlands

Dennis being a precursor of ADL, these don't count! Stagecoach also bought hundreds of the type new.

Trainguy34 said:
2x Optare Solo SRs, both coming from Stagecoach Manchester last year (One may be Spare Parts?)

One in service, one not yet entered service after arrival from Manchester, one not even delivered from Manchester yet. Stagecoach South East is also due to receive some from the upcoming order to replace the elderly examples you mention below. Stagecoach also seem to have preferred the Solo/SR to the short-length E200.

Trainguy34 said:
3x Mercedes Sprinters, all originally from the Little & Often fleet that temporarily went to Kilmarnock, Perth and Cumbria. Used to be a lot more when they ran Little & Often in Ashford, however all have left and I don't know where they run know.

These were certainly an unusual purchase. The simplest answer is "spread to the four winds", and often used as staff shuttle buses. The three remaining are thesmelves interestingly used on a Demand responsive service, which generally doesn't seem to be Stagecoach's thing.

Trainguy34 said:
21x Optare Solos, all I believe brought for Kent.

Also true, but a very long time ago, and I think may predate the OPs broad time period (given registrations between -04- and -58-, that seems before the Souter shareholding in ADL and the tendency to purchase from there).

TheGrandWazoo · 5 Apr 2024

Blindtraveler said:
I believe that various incarnations of a d l vehicle a tried on some of these routes, the numbers of which I now can't remember prior to these coming and proved not brilliant, prior to that I'm led to understand that the same roots were one of the last anywhere that you could regularly see stage coaches Alexander pPS B10m at work

I think the Scania e300s would have been good enough but they were no longer available new and so they went for the B8RLE for durability.

Stagecoach has a highly standardised fleet to minimise parts costs/stockholding and also to leverage their buying power. They have only tended to move from ADL for specific requirements though there is sometimes a bit of dual sourcing to keep ADL on their toes (such as the few Optare Versas bought).

The need for minibuses and no available ADL product necessitated the purchase of Solos and Mercs; the lone batch of WF Streetlites might also have been a strategic move to keep Optare true!

Grahamk748 · 5 Apr 2024

I think I’m correct in saying that the hybrid Volvos for London and Tayside were sourced because they were needed on a short lead time that ADL couldn’t meet at that time.
The Volvos for the Cambridge Busway had to have a certain wheel track to work on the busway and I think ADL chassis are too narrow?
The open toppers were Volvo/Wright because I don’t think ADL would build a new open top bus.
Happy to be corrected on any of these though.

computerSaysNo · 5 Apr 2024

markymark2000 said:
Stagecoach South Wales has the Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora's which I presume were ordered because they needed something fuel efficient and reliable for 4 hours of straight running through lots of mountainous terrain.

Why was a standard E300 not good enough? They could even have just bought a batch with the 6-speed gearbox if there was a lot of high speed running, although the standard specification E300s seem to do absolutely fine in East Scotland when they are used as substitutes for coaches.

cnjb8 · 5 Apr 2024

computerSaysNo said:
Why was a standard E300 not good enough? They could even have just bought a batch with the 6-speed gearbox if there was a lot of high speed running, although the standard specification E300s seem to do absolutely fine in East Scotland when they are used as substitutes for coaches.

Because the E300s were discontinued in 2015 and the routes needed brand new buses.
Are the B8s not owned by the Welsh Government as two of them went to Newport Transport a few years back and have now returned?

TheGrandWazoo · 5 Apr 2024

computerSaysNo said:
Why was a standard E300 not good enough? They could even have just bought a batch with the 6-speed gearbox if there was a lot of high speed running, although the standard specification E300s seem to do absolutely fine in East Scotland when they are used as substitutes for coaches.

As I said in post #17 and @cnjb8 states, they weren't available by that point and the vehicles needed replacement.

Stagecoach South Wales do use Scania K230/e300 on the T4 (shorts)/T14 that replaced the X4 (and using the vehicles previously employed) and on the 172 Bridgend to Merthyr via Aberdare which is a route that is even more punishing that the T4.

jammy36 · 5 Apr 2024

TheGrandWazoo said:
The need for minibuses and no available ADL product necessitated the purchase of Solos and Mercs; the lone batch of WF Streetlites might also have been a strategic move to keep Optare true!

Didn't Stagecoach also stop dealing with Optare for a while because of a commercial falling out between Stagecoach and Optare during the period of competition in Preston. The issue arose after Optare broke confidentiality clauses and revealed details of the destination of a batch of Solos then in build to Preston Bus.

TheGrandWazoo · 5 Apr 2024

jammy36 said:
Didn't Stagecoach also stop dealing with Optare for a while because of a commercial falling out between Stagecoach and Optare during the period of competition in Preston. The issue arose after Optare broke confidentiality clauses and revealed details of the destination of a batch of Solos then in build to Preston Bus.

I'd forgotten that. The Streetlites did arrive only three months before a batch of Solos also for Stagecoach Wales in 2012.

jammy36 · 5 Apr 2024

TheGrandWazoo said:
I'd forgotten that. The Streetlites did arrive only three months before a batch of Solos also for Stagecoach Wales in 2012.

I couldn't quite remember the timings, but I think the falling out with Optare was a little earlier then. I recall it did lead to a hiatus in Stagecoach placing orders with them.

Great_Western · 5 Apr 2024

TheGrandWazoo said:
I'd forgotten that. The Streetlites did arrive only three months before a batch of Solos also for Stagecoach Wales in 2012.

As far as I remember; the Streetlites were ordered instead of Solos as Optare couldn't deliver the Solos in time for the torch relay to start. I could be totally wrong on that, however.

It's also worth noting that three more Streetlites inherited from D&E coaches in Inverness have since joined the native batch at Merthyr. It'll be interesting to see if the Streetlites from Arran and Sheffield get displaced and end up there too, given the recent orders for E100's and Solos within the Stagecoach group.

Jordan Adam · 5 Apr 2024

Quite surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but in the last two and a half years Highlands have taken delivery of 57 (yes 57...) Volvo B8RLE MCV Evoras, 25 Yutong E10s, 9 Optare Solo SRs, 6 Mercedes Tourismos, 3 Scania Mobi-People Explorers and 2 Mercedes-Benz Spinter EVM Citylines. Essentially opting for "Anything but ADL/Plaxton", the only exception to this is a batch of 17 Enviro400MMCs however there isn't really any diesel alternative on the market elsewhere that would be suitable.

computerSaysNo · 5 Apr 2024

cnjb8 said:
Because the E300s were discontinued in 2015 and the routes needed brand new buses.

TheGrandWazoo said:
As I said in post #17 and @cnjb8 states, they weren't available by that point and the vehicles needed replacement.

Ahh, yes I forgot that the E300 isn't available any more!

It seems silly that Alexander Dennis withdrew it without a full replacement but maybe the development would have been too expensive.

MCR247 · 5 Apr 2024

computerSaysNo said:
Ahh, yes I forgot that the E300 isn't available any more!
It seems silly that Alexander Dennis withdrew it without a full replacement but maybe the development would have been too expensive.

It does seem a bit short sighted but as you said they must’ve weighed up the development costs against potential demand. To be fair, it does seem like ‘heavyweights’ have been falling out of fashion, and they do get a lot of demand for E200s.

mbonwick · 5 Apr 2024

Jordan Adam said:
Quite surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but in the last two and a half years Highlands have taken delivery of 57 (yes 57...) Volvo B8RLE MCV Evoras, 25 Yutong E10s, 9 Optare Solo SRs, 6 Mercedes Tourismos, 3 Scania Mobi-People Explorers and 2 Mercedes-Benz Spinter EVM Citylines. Essentially opting for "Anything but ADL/Plaxton", the only exception to this is a batch of 17 Enviro400MMCs however there isn't really any diesel alternative on the market elsewhere that would be suitable.

Indeed, Highlands over the past couple of years have really gone off-piste with new vehicle orders.
The Solos, Sprinters, B8RLE/Evoras (which are actually more common than you think within Stagecoach now) and to a lesser extent the Yutongs I can understand...but the coaches I can't.
I know Plaxton basically being closed explains not going the traditional Volvo/Plaxton route but I don't see how they ended up with Tourismos/Explorers....

Great_Western · 5 Apr 2024

MCR247 said:
It does seem a bit short sighted but as you said they must’ve weighed up the development costs against potential demand. To be fair, it does seem like ‘heavyweights’ have been falling out of fashion, and they do get a lot of demand for E200s.

Apologies for veering slightly off topic here but didn't ADL announce at one point they were going to build the E200 on a Volvo B8RLE chassis for Lothian, only for that to come to nothing? If I'm remembering correctly, that would have been a proper replacement for the E300.

That would probably have been Stagecoach's heavyweight of choice if it had ever came to fruition.

"Out of form" (i.e. non-ADL) Stagecoach orders

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