5Z37, 06 43 LSL empty stock Crewe HS-Tom na Faire depot today.

Bill57p9 · 5 Apr 2024

I do hope LSL's exercise here is a success and shows that it can be done in full compliance with regulations. Obviously it's a couple of steps away from a true Jacobite alternative, however LSL have compliant mk1s and steam locomotives.

Might get some cranks too. From very vague memory 37s did occasionally haul DBSO sets to Oban on summer Sundays but unsure if they ran to Mallaig.

I am watching with interest and wishing this endeavour well.

RailUK Forums

racyrich · 5 Apr 2024

Dumb question time.

Why is this being top and tailed when there's a DBSO? Is it not in working order? Or no suitable locos available?

Iskra · 5 Apr 2024

Bill57p9 said:
I do hope LSL's exercise here is a success and shows that it can be done in full compliance with regulations. Obviously it's a couple of steps away from a true Jacobite alternative, however LSL have compliant mk1s and steam locomotives.

Might get some cranks too. From very vague memory 37s did occasionally haul DBSO sets to Oban on summer Sundays but unsure if they ran to Mallaig.

I am watching with interest and wishing this endeavour well.

I’m not sure it will even hold too much crank appeal as unless you live nearby or can drive to Fort William easily, you’re probably going to need two nights away from home to be able to do it, so it’s going to be quite a costly endeavour and it came up at short notice so annual leave may not be bookable either. So for the market for this you’re basically looking at a few local enthusiasts who are retired and a few overflow tourists that don’t mind paying a bit extra over the service train assuming they somehow find out about the charter.. We shall see, but I’m not optimistic about this one.

Killingworth · 5 Apr 2024

Iskra said:
I’m not sure it will even hold too much crank appeal as unless you live nearby or can drive to Fort William easily, you’re probably going to need two nights away from home to be able to do it, so it’s going to be quite a costly endeavour and it came up at short notice so annual leave may not be bookable either. So for the market for this you’re basically looking at a few local enthusiasts who are retired and a few overflow tourists that don’t mind paying a bit extra over the service train assuming they somehow find out about the charter.. We shall see, but I’m not optimistic about this one.

Surely this is LSL putting down their coat. They run the Midland Pullman through every year so know the route. Two days of lightly loaded trips won't anywhere near cover costs.

How long is the rolling stock booked to stay at Fort William? Sending it immediately back south would be costly. Lurking at FTW reinforces a threat.

12LDA28C · 5 Apr 2024

racyrich said:
Dumb question time.

Why is this being top and tailed when there's a DBSO? Is it not in working order? Or no suitable locos available?

Firstly I don't believe 37409 can work with the DBSO without a modification and secondly it makes sense to have a backup loco on the train in case of failure.

Bill57p9 said:
I do hope LSL's exercise here is a success and shows that it can be done in full compliance with regulations. Obviously it's a couple of steps away from a true Jacobite alternative, however LSL have compliant mk1s and steam locomotives.

Might get some cranks too. From very vague memory 37s did occasionally haul DBSO sets to Oban on summer Sundays but unsure if they ran to Mallaig.

I am watching with interest and wishing this endeavour well.

LSL's Mk1s are in the Saphos set which has a full programme of tours so they are not available.

renegademaster · 5 Apr 2024

12LDA28C said:
Firstly I don't believe 37409 can work with the DBSO without a modification and secondly it makes sense to have a backup loco on the train in case of failure.

LSL's Mk1s are in the Saphos set which has a full programme of tours so they are not available.

Nobody said it was impossible, the other company just dont have a spare set laying about

12LDA28C · 5 Apr 2024

renegademaster said:
Nobody said it was impossible, the other company just dont have a spare set laying about

The inference was that LSL have suitable stock which they could use if they wanted to recreate a WCRC-style Jacobite experience, which isn't really the case, unless they want to cancel the Saphos programme which seems beyond unlikely.

Forty29 · 5 Apr 2024

I was going to post this on the WCRC judicial thread but it has been closed. WCRC has sent an ECS working today to Fort William today behind a pair of 37's which is currently running one hour late. Would make an interesting photo of two rival bedfellows in the yard there. I presume the LSL stock is still there?

12LDA28C · 5 Apr 2024

Forty29 said:
I was going to post this on the WCRC judicial thread but it has been closed. WCRC has sent an ECS working today to Fort William today behind a pair of 37's which is currently running one hour late. Would make an interesting photo of two rival bedfellows in the yard there. I presume the LSL stock is still there?

Indeed, seen here on RTT:

Realtime Trains | 5Z40 0945 Carnforth Steamtown to Fort William J.Yd T.C. | 05/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z40 0945 departure from Carnforth Steamtown to Fort William J.Yd T.C. on 05/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Iskra · 5 Apr 2024

Forty29 said:
I was going to post this on the WCRC judicial thread but it has been closed. WCRC has sent an ECS working today to Fort William today behind a pair of 37's which is currently running one hour late. Would make an interesting photo of two rival bedfellows in the yard there. I presume the LSL stock is still there?

12LDA28C said:
Indeed, seen here on RTT:

Realtime Trains | 5Z40 0945 Carnforth Steamtown to Fort William J.Yd T.C. | 05/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z40 0945 departure from Carnforth Steamtown to Fort William J.Yd T.C. on 05/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

2x37’s with a van that looks like it could (theoretically) contain a generator and 7 Mk1’s. No window bars on the Mk1’s so interesting to see if any other mods have been done to the doors to make them compliant. It will be interesting to see what happens with this set!

Rail Quest · 5 Apr 2024

Forty29 said:
I was going to post this on the WCRC judicial thread but it has been closed. WCRC has sent an ECS working today to Fort William today behind a pair of 37's which is currently running one hour late. Would make an interesting photo of two rival bedfellows in the yard there. I presume the LSL stock is still there?

Imagine if WCRC got another exemption with the ORR (somehow) and then the first Jacobite they ran is top'n'tail 37s JUST to smite LSL :lol:

On a more serious note, I was going to ask this in the WCRC thread, myself but it hasn't been reopened yet - why on earth are WCRC bothering sending a set back up without an exemption?

Iskra said:
2x37’s a van that looks like it could contain a generator and Mk1’s. No window bars on the Mk1’s so interesting to see if any other mods have been done to the doors to make them compliant. It will be interesting to see what happens with this set!

I was thinking the same but can't see any interlock lights on the side of the carriages so I doubt CDL has been fitted (I'm assuming interlock lights are needed for CDL stock?)

Iskra · 5 Apr 2024

Rail Quest said:
Imagine if WCRC got another exemption with the ORR (somehow) and then the first Jacobite they ran is top'n'tail 37s JUST to smite LSL

On a more serious note, I was going to ask this in the WCRC thread, myself but it hasn't been reopened yet - why on earth are WCRC bothering sending a set back up without an exemption?

I was thinking the same but can't see any interlock lights on the side of the carriages so I doubt CDL has been fitted (I'm assuming interlock lights are needed for CDL stock?)

I know, it’s getting interesting. 37 fans could have a great week in Fort William

There are other ways it could be done, more low tech from what I’ve heard but probably for a new speculative thread, or for this thread if we get clarification.

12LDA28C · 5 Apr 2024

Rail Quest said:
I was thinking the same but can't see any interlock lights on the side of the carriages so I doubt CDL has been fitted (I'm assuming interlock lights are needed for CDL stock?)

CDL doesn't have to be fitted - all that WCRC need to do is present the ORR with their plan to fit it within an agreed timescale, to gain a similar derogation that other operators such as VT are currently enjoying.

Gaz67 · 5 Apr 2024

Iskra said:
2x37’s with a van that looks like it could (theoretically) contain a generator and 7 Mk1’s. No window bars on the Mk1’s so interesting to see if any other mods have been done to the doors to make them compliant. It will be interesting to see what happens with this set!

Haha, I have an image in my head of Terry Thomas driving this with Eric Sykes second man.

Forty29 · 5 Apr 2024

Iskra said:
I know, it’s getting interesting. 37 fans could have a great week in Fort William

There are other ways it could be done, more low tech from what I’ve heard but probably for a new speculative thread, or for this thread if we get clarification.

Becoming very interesting indeed!

SteveM70 · 5 Apr 2024

racyrich said:
Dumb question time.

Why is this being top and tailed when there's a DBSO? Is it not in working order? Or no suitable locos available?

12LDA28C said:
Firstly I don't believe 37409 can work with the DBSO without a modification and secondly it makes sense to have a backup loco on the train in case of failure.

37409 has certainly worked with a DBSO in the past, on the Cumbrian coast.

So perhaps the system is different in some way, or equipment has been decommissioned?

Or as @12LDA28C says, it’s insurance against an exploding tractor

alexl92 · 5 Apr 2024

Can anyone confirm whether the timings of the LSL trips correspond roughly with the traditional Jacobite path?

I’m told WCRC are just running mk1s carrying fresh air along the WHL purely to keep their paths occupied… dunno if that’s true.

Killingworth · 5 Apr 2024

alexl92 said:
Can anyone confirm whether the timings of the LSL trips correspond roughly with the traditional Jacobite path?

I’m told WCRC are just running mk1s carrying fresh air along the WHL purely to keep their paths occupied… dunno if that’s true.

WC certainly ran a train up and down at Mallaig today but it doesn't seem to have come or gone anywhere else; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...5/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=WR

Wyrleybart · 5 Apr 2024

SteveM70 said:
37409 has certainly worked with a DBSO in the past, on the Cumbrian coast.

So perhaps the system is different in some way, or equipment has been decommissioned?

Or as @12LDA28C says, it’s insurance against an exploding tractor

AFAIK the DBSO is fitted with blue star MU control and the class47s which have worked with it were also controlling it with blue star operation.
IMHO 37667 was sent up there as an insurance policy, and may be a "Prince Harry" ie spare.

12LDA28C · 6 Apr 2024

alexl92 said:
Can anyone confirm whether the timings of the LSL trips correspond roughly with the traditional Jacobite path?

I’m told WCRC are just running mk1s carrying fresh air along the WHL purely to keep their paths occupied… dunno if that’s true.

No. LSL are using the Royal Scotsman path which is around 90 minutes earlier from Fort William in the morning. The Jacobite path is owned by WCRC so is not available for use by another TOC.

Wyrleybart said:
AFAIK the DBSO is fitted with blue star MU control and the class47s which have worked with it were also controlling it with blue star operation.
IMHO 37667 was sent up there as an insurance policy, and may be a "Prince Harry" ie spare.

LSL's 47s are Green Circle MU operation which is similar to Blue Star but not the same, which as I understand it is why 37409 cannot currently work with the DBSO.

321362 · 6 Apr 2024

I just find this funny how WCRC and LSL are effectively having a fight over Fort William.

renegademaster · 6 Apr 2024

321362 said:
I just find this funny how WCRC and LSL are effectively having a fight over Fort William.

A fight that exists only in the mind of online commentators. LSL dont have enough stock to "steal" the jacobite paths

31160 · 6 Apr 2024

renegademaster said:
A fight that exists only in the mind of online commentators. LSL dont have enough stock to "steal" the jacobite paths

Neither do WCRC,well at least those that are legal to run it with

renegademaster · 6 Apr 2024

31160 said:
Neither do WCRC,well at least those that are legal to run it with

Which is in real life nobody is fighting over it because neither could run a full time service. Both WCRC and LSL are too busy doing railtours to try and revive the jacobite .

12LDA28C · 6 Apr 2024

321362 said:
I just find this funny how WCRC and LSL are effectively having a fight over Fort William.

They're not.

Bertie the bus · 7 Apr 2024

renegademaster said:
A fight that exists only in the mind of online commentators. LSL dont have enough stock to "steal" the jacobite paths

12LDA28C said:
They're not.

So it's perfectly normal for 2 operators to just send loco's and stock hundreds of miles to the West Highlands of Scotland? One of which announces a couple of charters with only a couple of day's notice and the other sends stock that can't be used on passenger services.

Nothing to see here... except come next week when there almost certainly will be something to see. Difficult to predict what but it will be amusing.

renegademaster · 7 Apr 2024

Bertie the bus said:
So it's perfectly normal for 2 operators to just send loco's and stock hundreds of miles to the West Highlands of Scotland? One of which announces a couple of charters with only a couple of day's notice and the other sends stock that can't be used on passenger services.

Nothing to see here... except come next week when there almost certainly will be something to see. Difficult to predict what but it will be amusing.

Theirs plenty of legitimate reasons why both are up their.

LSL running feelers to see how practical running the route as an occasional thing is. WCRC doing staff training for an apparent new solution or Mr Smith being stubborn and thinking he's just one more press release away from getting ORR to change their mind.

I hope for the sake of heritage rail sector neither are silly enough to spend many thousands of pounds to spite each other, especially considering WCRC beef isn't actually with Crewe but Whitehall.

Krokodil · 7 Apr 2024

321362 said:
I just find this funny how WCRC and LSL are effectively having a fight over Fort William.

With Hosking as the Duke of Cumberland?

Does anyone know which way around the locos will be tomorrow? Planning on getting some photos before having a ride on Tuesday and the Scotrail one is more fitting than the green 37.

Iskra · 7 Apr 2024

Krokodil said:
With Hosking as the Duke of Cumberland?

Does anyone know which way around the locos will be tomorrow? Planning on getting some photos before having a ride on Tuesday and the Scotrail one is more fitting than the green 37.

You may be able to work it out from this video of the Scotrail 37 today. I think this shows the Scotrail 37 on the Mallaig end but an expert will need to clarify…

https://x.com/mdalgleish1968/status/1776987435315982652?s=46&t=lo2dgPQcj4ppK-VC860FLA

Krokodil · 7 Apr 2024

Iskra said:
You may be able to work it out from this video of the Scotrail 37 today. I think this shows the Scotrail 37 on the Mallaig end but an expert will need to clarify…

https://x.com/mdalgleish1968/status/1776987435315982652?s=46&t=lo2dgPQcj4ppK-VC860FLA

Thanks. I presume that if it's on the blocks that it will be on the Mallaig end of the train. Unfortunately I won't be there for the outbound working, only for the return.

5Z37, 06 43 LSL empty stock Crewe HS-Tom na Faire depot today.

Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member