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Fully reserved trains with unreserved seats
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R
RailUK Forums
I don't, can you resolve the apparent contradiction for me please.
Is it something like what they had on the Euston to Manchester services where there was a coach that was dedicated for passengers without reservations and on the rest of the train there was the option of reserving a seat?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I took it to mean all the reserveable seats were reserved and only those which could not be reserved were thus available.
So did I but, given it is not possible to reserve a Grand Central seat when already on board, I'm not sure how this information is meant to be useful for passengers?
Wouldn't it be simpler to say 'all seats are reserved on this service, except for unreserved seats in coach B'?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I agree, it's poor phrasing.
Poor wording, yes.
But in line with expectations from Grand Central, who arent the most passenger-friendly of operators.
I get the impression the company lacks anyone with any PR skills, or decent English qualifications (not to mention lack of understanding of consumer and contract law, the Conditions of travel etc, but that's another story!)
You would have thought they'd have someone who could get messaging in order, but seemingly not; as a result, I look at them as a bit of a mickey mouse operation these days. It's a shame as I want open access to succeed, but they really are an absolute shambles.
But in line with expectations from Grand Central, who arent the most passenger-friendly of operators.
I get the impression the company lacks anyone with any PR skills, or decent English qualifications (not to mention lack of understanding of consumer and contract law, the Conditions of travel etc, but that's another story!)
You would have thought they'd have someone who could get messaging in order, but seemingly not; as a result, I look at them as a bit of a mickey mouse operation these days. It's a shame as I want open access to succeed, but they really are an absolute shambles.
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Compared to most of the things that this operator does it’s fairly acceptable. All of the seats that can be reserved have been reserved. If you’re wandering through a carriage without a seat reservation looking for a seat without one you’ll not have much luck, the message directs you to coach B where there are some seats that have not been reserved. Of course, if you’ve got on the train anywhere other than coach B then the chances are by the time you walk all the way through or get off and back on again the unreserved seats will have been taken by other passengers.
Quite often (and this goes for any service really) if you’re not at the front of the queue for the limited unreserved seating then you’re better off standing and / or walking through the train on departure to see who hasn’t turned up. There could be 100 people without reservations wanting 30 unreserved seats but there could be another 30 no shows scattered throughout the train.
Quite often (and this goes for any service really) if you’re not at the front of the queue for the limited unreserved seating then you’re better off standing and / or walking through the train on departure to see who hasn’t turned up. There could be 100 people without reservations wanting 30 unreserved seats but there could be another 30 no shows scattered throughout the train.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
You can't reserve a seat, because all those that can be reserved have been taken. Coach B seats cannot be reserved - its a free-for-all.
Thanks, so like what I have experienced, an unreserved coach for those without reservations, in this specific case the only seating option available.
RailWonderer
Established Member
Even when I reserve a seat I like sitting in an unreserved coach and choosing my own seat. Especially if you use fare splitting, a seat is automoatically allocated so I often prefer my choice to the one I am randomly allocated.
ChrisDY10
Member
Which makes the whole compulsory reservation for advance tickets a complete joke!!
If the train is genuinely “fully reserved” then there can be no “unreserved” seats. “All reservable seats have been reserved, but there are some which cannot be reserved” is something different - but not very snappy.
MCR247
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 9,614
“All reversations taken. Some unreserved seats in Coach C” could work?
deep south
Member
- Joined
- 24 Jul 2012
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- 77
Our trip on Tuesday from Sunderland also had this message, so it looks like GC loadings are quite healthy. Although a reasonable proportion of the reserved seats weren't occupied, and I didn't see anyone having to stand on the 12:30 departure.
In my experience there are usually seats available Sunderland to York, but beyond York to London is almost always fully seated with occasional need for standing. Same in reverse.
It is contradictory. If it's a fully reserved service then one coach being unreserved makes no sense. The number of seats being reserved is irrelevant. I know that this is common with TOC's but in the truest sense it's not accurate surely.
One coach is not unreserved, it is only roughly half of coach B, which means just half a carriage out of 4 Standard class in a five car 180.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Abysmal information, as is becoming the norm on today's railway, where so much stuff seems to have been cobbled together by semi-illiterates.
Purple Train
Established Member
The trouble is that, while it is poor phrasing, other methods of phrasing it would also likely be complained about on this Forum for being too verbose! You can't really win with these kinds of announcements - either, in a bid for simplification, you lose clarity (in worse cases, accuracy), or, in a bid for clarity, you lose simplicity. Considering the standards of communication on the rest of the railway, I think that those linking this to GC's attitude regarding ticket acceptance, Conditions of Travel, etc. are barking very much up the wrong tree.
My personal preference would have been for something like, "All seats that can be reserved have been reserved on this service; however, we do have seats which cannot be reserved, and are therefore free for those without seat reservations to sit in. These unreserved seats can be found in carriage B." In such a case, I'd have lost half the train in the last clause of the first sentence, but I wouldn't have been pedantic enough for some (who would doubtless have pointed out that the unreserved seats can, in fact, be sat in by passengers already holding a seat reservation).
It boils down to whether the announcement is really necessary. In its most basic form (free seats are in coach B), I think it probably is helpful (but, again, it won't be detailed enough for some and will be unnecessary white noise to others), but I'm less sure about how necessary it is to announce the service as "fully reserved".
Announcements are such a tightrope act that, in my opinion, you can very rarely please some of the people some of the time. But then I've never tried making them, so I could, of course, be completely wrong!
My personal preference would have been for something like, "All seats that can be reserved have been reserved on this service; however, we do have seats which cannot be reserved, and are therefore free for those without seat reservations to sit in. These unreserved seats can be found in carriage B." In such a case, I'd have lost half the train in the last clause of the first sentence, but I wouldn't have been pedantic enough for some (who would doubtless have pointed out that the unreserved seats can, in fact, be sat in by passengers already holding a seat reservation).
It boils down to whether the announcement is really necessary. In its most basic form (free seats are in coach B), I think it probably is helpful (but, again, it won't be detailed enough for some and will be unnecessary white noise to others), but I'm less sure about how necessary it is to announce the service as "fully reserved".
Announcements are such a tightrope act that, in my opinion, you can very rarely please some of the people some of the time. But then I've never tried making them, so I could, of course, be completely wrong!
As I suggested above, wouldn't ''all seats are reserved on this service, except for unreserved seats in coach B' be simple and clear?
Possibly. On the other hand, depending on how you read it, your suggestion seems no better than the phrasing they’ve chosen. A perfectly clear announcement would be longer, and you’d then no doubt complain that it was too verbose.
In any case, given that you’ve yourself acknowledged that seats cannot be reserved once aboard, is this announcement really likely to cause confusion in a way that inconveniences anybody? It strikes me as a fuss about nothing.
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There MAY be some unreserved seats in Coach B would be safer (plus where coach B is front/rear)
Yes that's fair. Main thing is to avoid anaesthetising normal punters by regaling them with the minutiae of the operator's reservation policies.