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Dublin to Ulverston SailRail

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BigCj34

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776
I am looking to travel from Dublin to Ulverston on Sunday, April 28. However while the thetrainline gives me a itinerary for a 1350 high-speed ferry sailing to arrive into Ulverston at 2301, that sailing does not start until May. The slow ferry at 1430 (as listed on the Irish ferries website) arrives too late for onwards travel from Holyhead, so would have to stay over.

The only way to achieve this in a day would be to take a crossing at 0805 but this would be too early as I am starting form elsewhere in Ireland. Would I be able to take the afternoon sailing, stay in Holyhead, then travel onwards on the Monday?

EDIT: Meant Sunday April 28, not 29.
 
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poffle

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Dublin, Ireland
BigCj34 said:
I am looking to travel from Dublin to Ulverston on Sunday, April 29. However while the thetrainline gives me a itinerary for a 1350 high-speed ferry sailing to arrive into Ulverston at 2301, that sailing does not start until May. The slow ferry at 1430 (as listed on the Irish ferries website) arrives too late for onwards travel from Holyhead, so would have to stay over.

The only way to achieve this in a day would be to take a crossing at 0805 but this would be too early as I am starting form elsewhere in Ireland. Would I be able to take the afternoon sailing, stay in Holyhead, then travel onwards on the Monday?
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Irish Ferries don't offer SailRail on the afternoon sailing from Dublin

Stena do have a 14:45 sailing which they offer SailRail on.

The SailRail tickets sold in Ireland by the ferry companies definitely allow a stop off. ( They're handwritten tickets so can cause a bit of bewilderment.)

It would seem reasonable to have an overnight stopover on this itinerary although I can't comment on what the gatelines might make of a ticket the day after the journey starts.

It may be better to look at an overnight in Chester or Crewe rather than Holyhead. Holyhead is a bit bleak (IMHO)

Also you talk about Sun 29/4 but 29/4 is a Monday. On Sun 28/4 there are RRBs shown Holyhead - Bangor.
 
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BigCj34

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776
poffle said:
Irish Ferries don't offer SailRail on the afternoon sailing from Dublin

Stena do have a 14:45 sailing which they offer SailRail on.

The SailRail tickets sold in Ireland by the ferry companies definitely allow a stop off. ( They're handwritten tickets so can cause a bit of bewilderment.)

It would seem reasonable to have an overnight stopover on this itinerary although I can't comment on what the gatelines might make of a ticket the day after the journey starts.

It may be better to look at an overnight in Chester or Crewe rather than Holyhead. Holyhead is a bit bleak (IMHO)

Also you talk about Sun 29/4 but 29/4 is a Monday. On Sun 28/4 there are RRBs shown Holyhead - Bangor.
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OK thanks, updated. I would be looking to buy the ticket to collect in Great Britain as part of a return, I am going to Dublin a few days before. Does that change anything in terms of my Break of Journey rights?
 
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poffle

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30
Location
Dublin, Ireland
BigCj34 said:
OK thanks, updated. I would be looking to buy the ticket to collect in Great Britain as part of a return, I am going to Dublin a few days before. Does that change anything in terms of my Break of Journey rights?
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The TFW website says that Break of Journey is not permitted on SailRail tickets.

tfw.wales

SailRail FAQ | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times
tfw.wales tfw.wales

Can I break my journey?
No. Break of journeys are not allowed except for connecting from on train to another.

However there are also some posts on foram here saying that National Rail Conditions of Carriage say that if you can't complete the journey in one day from when you start you are allowed a break.

I think the reason for the condition is to stop people buying a SailRail tickets and just using it to travel to North Wales.

The ferry company will issue a boarding pass for the ferry so I suggest you hold on to that to show you're travelling from Ireland if you get hassle at a gateline.

There is an old thread I found on the forum about journeys that can't be completed on the same day:

Where it isn't possible to complete the journey in one day

To be fair, single-fare pricing, which looks likely to roll out further (certainly on LNER but I think we'll see it elsewhere), does indeed solve this problem, by preventing overnight break of journey entirely (other than on Anytime Singles I think, or "where it isn't possible to complete the...
www.railforums.co.uk

This is sort of an area for common sense and a bit of flexibility rather than rigidly following rules to the letter.
 
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Trainbike46

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18 Sep 2021
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belfast
poffle said:
Irish Ferries don't offer SailRail on the afternoon sailing from Dublin

Stena do have a 14:45 sailing which they offer SailRail on.

The SailRail tickets sold in Ireland by the ferry companies definitely allow a stop off. ( They're handwritten tickets so can cause a bit of bewilderment.)
Click to expand...
poffle said:
It would seem reasonable to have an overnight stopover on this itinerary although I can't comment on what the gatelines might make of a ticket the day after the journey starts.
Click to expand...
I can't imagine the gatelines would accept a hand-written ticket under any circumstances! Seems like you'll have to ask to be let through (if buying the ticket in Dublin from the Ferry company)

BigCj34 said:
OK thanks, updated. I would be looking to buy the ticket to collect in Great Britain as part of a return, I am going to Dublin a few days before. Does that change anything in terms of my Break of Journey rights?
Click to expand...
How will you be travelling to Dublin? If by SailRail you could buy a single in both directions from a ticket office near you (Ulverston maybe?) (I'd be surprised if a machine could sell tickets to/from Dublin!)
 
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BigCj34

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5 Apr 2016
Messages
776
Trainbike46 said:
I can't imagine the gatelines would accept a hand-written ticket under any circumstances! Seems like you'll have to ask to be let through (if buying the ticket in Dublin from the Ferry company)


How will you be travelling to Dublin? If by SailRail you could buy a single in both directions from a ticket office near you (Ulverston maybe?) (I'd be surprised if a machine could sell tickets to/from Dublin!)
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Yes start from Ulverston, and returning there. So would expect to collect from a ticket machine.
poffle said:
The TFW website says that Break of Journey is not permitted on SailRail tickets.

tfw.wales

SailRail FAQ | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times
tfw.wales tfw.wales

Can I break my journey?
No. Break of journeys are not allowed except for connecting from on train to another.

However there are also some posts on foram here saying that National Rail Conditions of Carriage say that if you can't complete the journey in one day from when you start you are allowed a break.

I think the reason for the condition is to stop people buying a SailRail tickets and just using it to travel to North Wales.

The ferry company will issue a boarding pass for the ferry so I suggest you hold on to that to show you're travelling from Ireland if you get hassle at a gateline.

There is an old thread I found on the forum about journeys that can't be completed on the same day:

Where it isn't possible to complete the journey in one day

To be fair, single-fare pricing, which looks likely to roll out further (certainly on LNER but I think we'll see it elsewhere), does indeed solve this problem, by preventing overnight break of journey entirely (other than on Anytime Singles I think, or "where it isn't possible to complete the...
www.railforums.co.uk

This is sort of an area for common sense and a bit of flexibility rather than rigidly following rules to the letter.
Click to expand...
Hopefully should be fine, especially when joruney planners show a late ferry at 2055 with a train leaving very early the next morning at 0433.
 
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Trainbike46

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18 Sep 2021
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2,321
Location
belfast
BigCj34 said:
Yes start from Ulverston, and returning there. So would expect to collect from a ticket machine.

Hopefully should be fine, especially when joruney planners show a late ferry at 2055 with a train leaving very early the next morning at 0433.
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If i understand the rules correctly, waiting overnight as there are no more trains to your destination is absolutely fine and wouldn't be considered a BOJ in any case

In any case, the reason for that BOJ restriction is to stop people from not making the full journey, not for stopping them from having a break partway through the journey (but still making it in full). tbh I don't think anyone will question it, and if they do just explain that you stayed overnight as you couldn't do the full journey in one day as there were no more trains. Keeping hold of the ferry boarding pass may be a good idea
 
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danm14

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712
BigCj34 said:
OK thanks, updated. I would be looking to buy the ticket to collect in Great Britain as part of a return, I am going to Dublin a few days before. Does that change anything in terms of my Break of Journey rights?
Click to expand...
There are no return Rail and Sail tickets for journeys between Great Britain and Ireland via Holyhead or Fishguard. You must buy two single tickets, one for each direction. This is what you will be issued with even if you book a "return" journey from an online booking site.

For the outward journey to Dublin, you have no choice but to buy the ticket in the UK at the UK price under the UK terms and conditions.

For the return journey from Dublin, you can choose to buy the ticket alongside your outward ticket at the UK price under the UK terms and conditions; or you can buy the ticket separately from the ferry company in Ireland at the Irish price under the Irish terms and conditions.

You should take the second option, and buy the ticket for the return portion separately from the ferry company in Ireland. If you wish to travel with Irish Ferries, you can book online at www.irishferries.com (but be very careful, their website is glitchy and it is very easy to accidentally book a ferry-only ticket); if you wish to travel with Stena Line you must book by telephone on 0344 335 0027 (UK) or 01 907 5388 (Ireland).

Not only are the Irish fares currently cheaper, Irish tickets are less restrictive - the tickets are valid for 30 days with unlimited break of journey (which is actually stated in writing on the ticket) and do not oblige you to take specified booked trains (in Ireland the advance booking discount is simply for booking in advance and nothing more, in the UK it is offered for booking in advance and restricting yourself to specific trains)
 
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BigCj34

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Messages
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danm14 said:
There are no return Rail and Sail tickets for journeys between Great Britain and Ireland via Holyhead or Fishguard. You must buy two single tickets, one for each direction. This is what you will be issued with even if you book a "return" journey from an online booking site.

For the outward journey to Dublin, you have no choice but to buy the ticket in the UK at the UK price under the UK terms and conditions.

For the return journey from Dublin, you can choose to buy the ticket alongside your outward ticket at the UK price under the UK terms and conditions; or you can buy the ticket separately from the ferry company in Ireland at the Irish price under the Irish terms and conditions.

You should take the second option, and buy the ticket for the return portion separately from the ferry company in Ireland. If you wish to travel with Irish Ferries, you can book online at www.irishferries.com (but be very careful, their website is glitchy and it is very easy to accidentally book a ferry-only ticket); if you wish to travel with Stena Line you must book by telephone on 0344 335 0027 (UK) or 01 907 5388 (Ireland).

Not only are the Irish fares currently cheaper, Irish tickets are less restrictive - the tickets are valid for 30 days with unlimited break of journey (which is actually stated in writing on the ticket) and do not oblige you to take specified booked trains (in Ireland the advance booking discount is simply for booking in advance and nothing more, in the UK it is offered for booking in advance and restricting yourself to specific trains)
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Thanks for this. This looks to be a good option, especially as the €50 fare (£43) is notably less than the £54 standby fare. Can't wait to see what the ticket looks like!

However on the T&Cs, the first line states:

Tickets are valid for 1 month only from the outward travel date. These tickets do not permit a break in journey and are valid for point to point travel only.

Though as I am not breaking my journey in the traditional sense, but am leaving the railway to resume the next day, will that matter?

Also when purchasing the Sailrail fare I can only select the 0805 sailing or 2055. Would I be able to purchase one of these and use it on the 1430 crossing or is the time fixed? As it says 1 month, is that saying I can use any service within a month of purchasing?
 
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danm14

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24 Jun 2017
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BigCj34 said:
However on the T&Cs, the first line states:

Tickets are valid for 1 month only from the outward travel date. These tickets do not permit a break in journey and are valid for point to point travel only.
Click to expand...
Yes, the terms and conditions say this, and the ferry companies will confirm that break of journey is not permitted if contacted.

However, in actual fact, the tickets themselves (which consist of several sheets of paper stapled into a paper folder) whether Irish Ferries or Stena Line state clearly, in both English and Irish, and I quote directly, that "Break of journey is authorised without formality, within the limits of the period of validity, except for saver tickets where break of journey is permitted on the return leg only."

There is no longer a ticket type called "Saver", and the term "Saver" does not appear on any ticket whether purchased at the full rate or at the advance booking rate.

BigCj34 said:
Also when purchasing the Sailrail fare I can only select the 0805 sailing or 2055. Would I be able to purchase one of these and use it on the 1430 crossing or is the time fixed? As it says 1 month, is that saying I can use any service within a month of purchasing?
Click to expand...
Irish Ferries do not allow the sale of Rail and Sail tickets for sailings other than those at 08:05 and 20:55. They also do not allow travel on sailings other than that which you have booked. If you want a mid-afternoon sailing, you must travel with Stena Line.
 
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BigCj34

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Messages
776
danm14 said:
Yes, the terms and conditions say this, and the ferry companies will confirm that break of journey is not permitted if contacted.

However, in actual fact, the tickets themselves (which consist of several sheets of paper stapled into a paper folder) whether Irish Ferries or Stena Line state clearly, in both English and Irish, and I quote directly, that "Break of journey is authorised without formality, within the limits of the period of validity, except for saver tickets where break of journey is permitted on the return leg only."

There is no longer a ticket type called "Saver", and the term "Saver" does not appear on any ticket whether purchased at the full rate or at the advance booking rate.


Irish Ferries do not allow the sale of Rail and Sail tickets for sailings other than those at 08:05 and 20:55. They also do not allow travel on sailings other than that which you have booked. If you want a mid-afternoon sailing, you must travel with Stena Line.
Click to expand...
OK thanks for clearing this up. Turns out I did need to put in Dublin Port - Stena to get their times to show up. So my options are either the more expensive option with Stena on Sunday 29 April, and stay overnight in the GB, or stay over in Dublin and take a slightly cheaper sail rail option with Irish Ferries on the Monday. I could get the 2055 sailing with Irish ferries but I probably won't do that.
 
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danm14

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BigCj34 said:
So my options are either the more expensive option with Stena on Sunday 29 April, and stay overnight in the GB, or stay over in Dublin and take a slightly cheaper sail rail option with Irish Ferries on the Monday.
Click to expand...
Stena is cheaper (by €1) if purchased at the Irish rate, and accommodation will almost certainly be cheaper somewhere along the route in the UK than in Dublin.
 
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BigCj34

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776
danm14 said:
Stena is cheaper (by €1) if purchased at the Irish rate, and accommodation will almost certainly be cheaper somewhere along the route in the UK than in Dublin.
Click to expand...
How do you get the Irish rate, is that only by calling up their Irish number? International calling fees might reduce the saving a little bit. :D
 
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danm14

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24 Jun 2017
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BigCj34 said:
How do you get the Irish rate, is that only by calling up their Irish number? International calling fees might reduce the saving a little bit. :D
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To find the price, it's simply €1 less than Irish Ferries. Both charge the same fares, but Irish Ferries charge a €1 booking fee.

To book, you can call the UK number or the Irish number - both route to the same call centre in Holyhead which takes the bookings for Irish-origin Rail and Sail journeys. The ticket will then be written out by the staff at Dublin Port when you arrive.

For future reference, as links to this thread in previous threads are now broken, the full terms and conditions printed on Irish-issued Rail and Sail tickets can be found in this thread from 2015.

SailRail Ireland to Britain Route Rosslare-Stena-Fishguard

Hello, I know it is no longer possible to have an Irish rail part to a SailRail Rosslare-Stena-Fishguard when bought in the UK. This website seems to suggest this is possible in Ireland though. Irish Rail have been quite useless in my enquiry, forwarding it first to Irishferries who in turn...
www.railforums.co.uk

The tickets remain identical today, apart from minor cosmetic changes (slightly different font, along with the removal of the defunct Swansea-Cork Line logo and use of the new Irish Rail logo). The terms and conditions remain entirely unchanged.
 
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