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Is this me or are train companies offering off peak returns that are not valid?

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Just being trying to book tickets Huddersfield to Knaresborough, and both Northern and TPExpress offer off peak returns despite me picking train that you are not allow to travel on. When I checked TPExpress website it states "This peak time can change between train operating companies so always check before you travel." no mention of evening peak time. But when I asked them directly "unable to use between 1601 and 1829. Screenshot 2024-04-11 at 16.55.28.png
 
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bcarmicle

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There is no evening peak on the Off-Peak Day Return between Huddersfield and Knaresborough. The restriction code applicable is I2, which prohibits travel on trains scheduled to depart between 04:29 and 09:15 on the outbound leg only.
 

SteveM70

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Is there an evening peak for routes originating outside West Yorkshire?
 

Mcr Warrior

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Why is the fare showing as £25-00?

Is this for two Off Peak Day Returns between Huddersfield and Knaresborough and both railcard-discounted?
 
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That is with two senior railcards this is TPExpress response specifically an evening restriction!
 

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rg177

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That is with two senior railcards this is TPExpress response specifically an evening restriction!
They've assumed, based on your question, that your ticket is from Huddersfield to Leeds - which does hold an evening restriction.
 

plugwash

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That is with two senior railcards this is TPExpress response specifically an evening restriction!
The key part of their answer is "if you have a huddersfield to leeds return". Peak restrictions depend on the ticket you hold. It is very common for some off-peak tickets to be valid on a given train, while others are not. Unfortunately the railway does a very poor job of communicating this to it's customers.

Traditionally in most of the UK (there may have been other rules in the London area, I rarely travelled there) most off-peak day returns (formerly cheap day returns) only had peak restrictions in the morning, not in the evening.

A number of large conurbations in the UK have "public transport executives" (PTE) for short. TFGM (formerly GMPTE) for greater Manchester. West yorkshire PTE for west Yorkshire, South yorkshire PTE for south yorkshire. and so-on. Tickets within "PTE" areas are nearly always cheaper, and sometimes significantly so than tickets covering a similar distance from outside those areas or between areas covered by different PTEs. At some point in the not too distant past, Evening peak restrictions were brought in on off-peak day return tickets within a number of PTE areas as effectively, a stealth price rise.

However, with a few exceptions, this did not apply for tickets to/from stations outside PTE areas. North Yorkshire does not have a PTE. A huddersfield to knaresbourough off peak day return has no evening peak restrictions.
 
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Harpers Tate

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Knaresborough is outside the West Yorks area. It is journeys wholly within that area that are subject to the evening peak condition.
 

Starmill

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Is there an evening peak for routes originating outside West Yorkshire?
Yes, but it's specific to each ticket.

Knaresborough is outside the West Yorks area. It is journeys wholly within that area that are subject to the evening peak condition.
Unfortunately not, Knaresborough - Bradford, Knaresborough - Leeds, Knaresborough - Harrogate do have the PM restriction. Knaresborough - Skipton, Knaresborough - Wakefield and Knaresborough - York do not have it. It has to be individually looked up, I'm afraid.
 

Watershed

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Just being trying to book tickets Huddersfield to Knaresborough, and both Northern and TPExpress offer off peak returns despite me picking train that you are not allow to travel on. When I checked TPExpress website it states "This peak time can change between train operating companies so always check before you travel." no mention of evening peak time. But when I asked them directly "unable to use between 1601 and 1829. View attachment 156204
Trains aren't inherently peak or off-peak - whether you can take a particular train depends on the fare you buy, and the restriction code associated with that fare.

A Huddersfield to Knaresborough Off-Peak Day Return has restriction code I2 - you can look this up at nre.co.uk/I2. This means it's valid from 09:15 onwards, with no evening peak. Therefore you are entirely permitted to take the 16:39 from Knaresborough on your way back.

A different restriction code would apply if you were buying a Huddersfield to Leeds Off-Peak Day Return, which would mean there would indeed be evening restrictions. In general, most Off-Peak fares for journeys entirely within either West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire or Greater Manchester (and a handful of adjoining stations) have evening peak restrictions. But Knaresborough is in North Yorkshire so there aren't any evening peak restrictions on the Off-Peak fare from Huddersfield. Equally, the fare is more expensive because it's not subsidised by the local councils, so it's a case of swings and roundabouts.

This is also why, when you asked about Huddersfield to Leeds, TPE correctly told you that there would be evening restrictions - they probably assumed you were asking about buying a Huddersfield to Leeds tickets. But as you aren't buying that ticket, the restrictions that apply to such a ticket aren't relevant to your Huddersfield to Knaresborough ticket.

It is also worth pointing out that, even if a retailer such as Trainline or TPE had made a mistake (they haven't) and had 'wrongly' offered an Off-Peak ticket at a time of day when it wasn't valid, you are entitled to rely on the information you're given when buying your ticket. Therefore your ticket would be contractually valid on the offered trains, and the train companies would have to accept your ticket. They can take it up with Trainline etc. if they are unhappy.
 
Joined
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Location
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Trains aren't inherently peak or off-peak - whether you can take a particular train depends on the fare you buy, and the restriction code associated with that fare.

A Huddersfield to Knaresborough Off-Peak Day Return has restriction code I2 - you can look this up at nre.co.uk/I2. This means it's valid from 09:15 onwards, with no evening peak. Therefore you are entirely permitted to take the 16:39 from Knaresborough on your way back.

A different restriction code would apply if you were buying a Huddersfield to Leeds Off-Peak Day Return, which would mean there would indeed be evening restrictions. In general, most Off-Peak fares for journeys entirely within either West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire or Greater Manchester (and a handful of adjoining stations) have evening peak restrictions. But Knaresborough is in North Yorkshire so there aren't any evening peak restrictions on the Off-Peak fare from Huddersfield. Equally, the fare is more expensive because it's not subsidised by the local councils, so it's a case of swings and roundabouts.

This is also why, when you asked about Huddersfield to Leeds, TPE correctly told you that there would be evening restrictions - they probably assumed you were asking about buying a Huddersfield to Leeds tickets. But as you aren't buying that ticket, the restrictions that apply to such a ticket aren't relevant to your Huddersfield to Knaresborough ticket.

It is also worth pointing out that, even if a retailer such as Trainline or TPE had made a mistake (they haven't) and had 'wrongly' offered an Off-Peak ticket at a time of day when it wasn't valid, you are entitled to rely on the information you're given when buying your ticket. Therefore your ticket would be contractually valid on the offered trains, and the train companies would have to accept your ticket. They can take it up with Trainline etc. if they are unhappy.
Thanks I can now buy with confidence!
 

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