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How much to hire a train?

J

Jan Mayen

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Thinking about the future operation of the Bluebell Railway Ardingly branch (so perhaps should be in the speculation/wishful thing forum!), I was wondering how much it would cost to hire in a train that is cleared to operate over the Network Rail section from Ardingly to Haywards Heath.
For the purposes of this discussion let us assume it (whatever 'it' is) is hired for a three day bank holiday weekend, crewed by the supplier and operates shuttles between Horsted Keynes and Haywards Heath, daytime only. Perhaps the Hastings DEMU or a Class 171 hired from Southern?
Anyone have any idea?
 
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CarrotPie

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Jan Mayen said:
Thinking about the future operation of the Bluebell Railway Ardingly branch (so perhaps should be in the speculation/wishful thing forum!), I was wondering how much it would cost to hire in a train that is cleared to operate over the Network Rail section from Ardingly to Haywards Heath.
For the purposes of this discussion let us assume it (whatever 'it' is) is hired for a three day bank holiday weekend, crewed by the supplier and operates shuttles between Horsted Keynes and Haywards Heath, daytime only. Perhaps the Hastings DEMU or a Class 171 hired from Southern?
Anyone have any idea?
Click to expand...
Good luck finding a spare 171. Have you asked either of the companies for quotes?
 
Peter Mugridge

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Isn't the track severed between Ardingly and Horsted Keynes...?

That might be a slight flaw in this plan?
 
J

Jan Mayen

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CarrotPie said:
Good luck finding a spare 171. Have you asked either of the companies for quotes?
Click to expand...
No. More just curious rather a serious potential customer of any company which might be able to supply a train. Presumably there are trains other than a Class 171 from Southern available for hire?

Peter Mugridge said:
Isn't the track severed between Ardingly and Horsted Keynes...?

That might be a slight flaw in this plan?
Click to expand...
Indeed. I was more thinking about what could happen when/if it gets connected, as Bluebell don't have anything (as far as I'm aware) that could operate over Network Rail.
 
Class15

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Jan Mayen said:
No. More just curious rather a serious potential customer of any company which might be able to supply a train. Presumably there are trains other than a Class 171 from Southern available for hire?
Click to expand...
171s are the only diesels operated by southern. Hastings unit is a good option.
 
Z

zwk500

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Jan Mayen said:
Thinking about the future operation of the Bluebell Railway Ardingly branch (so perhaps should be in the speculation/wishful thing forum!), I was wondering how much it would cost to hire in a train that is cleared to operate over the Network Rail section from Ardingly to Haywards Heath.
For the purposes of this discussion let us assume it (whatever 'it' is) is hired for a three day bank holiday weekend, crewed by the supplier and operates shuttles between Horsted Keynes and Haywards Heath, daytime only. Perhaps the Hastings DEMU or a Class 171 hired from Southern?
Anyone have any idea?
Click to expand...
Southern are unlikely to lend anything as they haven't got much spare and their drivers don't sign the branch, but hiring the Hastings DEMU and getting a DB route conductor wouldn't be impossible if you could manages 3 or 4 round trips in the day.
Can't give absolute numbers but the Hastings DEMU gets hired out for quite a wide range of parties and events, and a day shuttling between Haywards Heath and Horsted Keynes would be at the cheaper end for it, I'd have thought. Although it could get a bit more expensive if NR deem extra measures need to be taken for passenger trains over their goods-only section and therefore charge for a MOM to attend all day.
 
J

Jan Mayen

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I'm aware the Hastings DEMU has shuttled over the branch before (September 2016, according to six bells junction) which is perhaps why I was thinking of it.
 
Last edited:
Monty

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It cost the Swanage railway the best part of £250k to run the Wareham service last summer, and that's with our own stock and under WCR's safety case. Chances are it's going to be at *least* that.
 
J

James H

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The Swanage operation was 90 days but the OP is asking about a three day service.
 
Monty

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If that's the case you are still looking at 5 figures, taking into crewing costs, unit hire and probably a bit extra to make it worth the trouble.
 
E

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Peter Mugridge said:
Isn't the track severed between Ardingly and Horsted Keynes...?
Click to expand...
It is. Sheriff Mill Viaduct, the poor condition of which was cited as one of the reasons for closure, was demolished by BR in 1969. Bluebell suggests they can deal with this by extending the embankments on either side of the gap together with gapping a a short section by a girder bridge. There is also a short girder bridge missing. Bluebell has possessed two sections of girder bridge required to solve these problems for some time and they are currently stored in the yard at Horsted Keynes. The railway owns or leases all of the trackbed between HK and Ardingly bar the short Lywood tunnel, which it has on lease with an option to purchase.

There is a thread on here from about 18 months ago, outlining the Bluebell's plan for an extension which bypasses the Hanson aggregates depot currently operating on the site of Ardingly station:

Bluebell extension to Haywards Heath via Ardingly

An announcement by the bluebell Railway dated 9th September says that they have a plan for extending from Horsted keynes to Ardingly (bypassing the aggregates depot) to achieve connection at Haywards Heath. https://consultations.tetratecheurope.com/consultations/bluebell-railway/ Bluebell...
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43096

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CarrotPie said:
92s are not used very much these days, despite being equipped with TVM430, because there is such little freight that can be electrically-hauled. IIRC their main work is on the CTRL and with CS.
Click to expand...
There's not a huge amount of slack in the 92 fleet. 12 locos, two for tunnel freight and 10 largely on sleeper work. Of the sleeper fleet, 4 are needed each night for the main trains (1M11, 1M16, 1S25, 1S26), one is needed for the Edinburgh portion of the lowland sleeper and there's a requirement for an ECS loco at Polmadie and Wembley. So seven needed from ten, of a fleet that is the only type capable of hauling that service.
 
paul1609

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CarrotPie said:
92s are not used very much these days, despite being equipped with TVM430, because there is such little freight that can be electrically-hauled. IIRC their main work is on the CTRL and with CS.
Click to expand...
I don't think that many class 92s still have active TVM. It needed an update when HS1 opened and this was only done on the Channel Tunnel locos and a couple of extra were done in 2009 funded by the EU to enable freight to run on HS1. Most of the equipment on the others is obsolete and possibly isolated.
 
43096

43096

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paul1609 said:
I don't think that many class 92s still have active TVM. It needed an update when HS1 opened and this was only done on the Channel Tunnel locos and a couple of extra were done in 2009 funded by the EU to enable freight to run on HS1. Most of the equipment on the others is obsolete and possibly isolated.
Click to expand...
The GBRf pool codes give a pretty good idea of which locos can work where.
GBCT (GBRf Class 92 Channel Tunnel): 92032/044
GBSL (GBRf Class 92 Sleeper): 92006/014/020/023/033
GBST (GBRf Class 92 Sleeper & Tunnel): 92010/018/028/038/043

That suggests that the locos in pools GBCT and GBST have TVM430 operational. With seven 92s needed for the sleeper service per night, plus the need for maintenance cover, there's little opportunity for the GBST locos to make it down to Dollands Moor.

Obviously all the DB Cargo 92s have operational TVM430.
 
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