Why is another platform being built at Bradford Forster Square?

Bantamzen · 22 Apr 2024

Class 170101 said:
It seems to me that a platform at Forster Square isn't needed, rather instead Northern need to be running 2tph, as per pre covid, to free up the existing platforms for LNER to use the long platform rather than using them as extra carriage sidings.

Even when all daytime services were 2tph from Forster Square units often spent most of the day stabled there.

Class 170101 said:
However the question for me is, why are the LNER services needed at either Harrogate or Bradford? Thats caused by a relentless focus on performance at the expense of passeger journeys / connections so said passengers request and demand through services and of course that may require additional, expensive, infrastructure.

To offer an alternative to having to change at Leeds for Kings Cross passengers not opting for the trundle around West Yorkshire on Grand Central, as well as potentially freeing up a platform at Leeds for longer without even more expensive work?

I'll be honest I was sceptical about this at first, but having more LNER services as well as a return of 2tph across all routes might help make a stronger case to upgrade the rest of the station. And given that new bus hubs are appearing in the area, the potential to increase footfall through Forster Square exists, so any improvements could help towards that.

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geoffk · 22 Apr 2024

leedslad82 said:
Wasn't there a suggestion at some point of these services travelling through rather than reversing at leeds and using hambleton curve to join ecml. This does mean missing out Wakefield though

There's a separate thread on the Wortley curve being brought back into use. Is this relevant to the discussion here? That implies a separate KX- Bradford service not calling at Leeds, unlikely to be viable you'd think, also using more capacity on ECML.

GoneSouth · 22 Apr 2024

xotGD said:
That would mean that extra paths are required for ecs moves during the day.

Shouldn’t be too difficult from Bradford to Shipley, it’s only a couple of miles with not a lot of traffic. And on a side note, this train depot will massively improve the perception of the area to those arriving by train compared with the huge dirty scrapyard it’s replacing. That was a grim welcome to Bradford

mm333 · 22 Apr 2024

Looking at RTT, there’s only about a four minute headway between Forster Square and Shipley. So plenty of spots for extra paths.

Will there be access to the new yard from the south or will they have to reverse at Shipley South Junction?

sprite · 24 Apr 2024

GoneSouth said:
That was a grim welcome to Bradford

Grim, but honest.

Ken H · 24 Apr 2024

sprite said:
Grim, but honest.

I knew one of the Crossleys in the 70's. He worked in shipley but didnt look like he got his hands dirty. Nice bloke tho.

Bantamzen · 25 Apr 2024

GoneSouth said:
Shouldn’t be too difficult from Bradford to Shipley, it’s only a couple of miles with not a lot of traffic. And on a side note, this train depot will massively improve the perception of the area to those arriving by train compared with the huge dirty scrapyard it’s replacing. That was a grim welcome to Bradford

One other small piece of good news is that the arches on the ramp leading up towards Cheapside and the Midland Hotel are to be gated off:

Arches near Bradford city centre station to be gated off - but concerns are raised

CITY centre rail arches that are regularly used by rough sleepers for shelter are to be gated off.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

CITY centre rail arches that are regularly used by rough sleepers for shelter are to be gated off.

The ten arches in the pedestrian route between Cheapside and Forster Square Rail Station will be blocked off by three-metre-high decorated panels, with new lighting installed inside.
The work will be funded by Network Rail, which owns and maintains the arches, and carried out by Bradford Council, which says the changes will lead to a “much improved public realm” around the station.

It seems the work will begin next month and be completed sometime in August.

30907 · 25 Apr 2024

mm333 said:
Will there be access to the new yard from the south or will they have to reverse at Shipley South Junction?

It uses the existing connection (trailing for Northbound trains) - saves a lot of money no doubt!

xotGD · 25 Apr 2024

Bantamzen said:
One other small piece of good news is that the arches on the ramp leading up towards Cheapside and the Midland Hotel are to be gated off:

Arches near Bradford city centre station to be gated off - but concerns are raised

CITY centre rail arches that are regularly used by rough sleepers for shelter are to be gated off.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

It seems the work will begin next month and be completed sometime in August.

About time this was addressed.

Good news.

jonesy3001 · 25 Apr 2024

Always stinks when I walk pass when get off at forster square when I'm changing between the 2 stations, bout time something got done.

61653 HTAFC · 25 Apr 2024

Bit of a poor do that hostile architecture is the only solution being considered, but we are where we are I guess.

Railings won't stop them being used as urinals though!

anothertyke · 25 Apr 2024

jamiearmley said:
Absolutely, and thankyou!

I was struggling to find a term to describe what I meant when I originally wrote the post, and I did provide a fuller explanation in a later post when someone else - rightly - queried what I meant.

There is a phrase more suited, but I cannot bring it to mind.

The perks and perils of an ageing brain!

hopefully GBR, Rail Britannia or whatever it's called today, will put an end to ORCATS raiding and the whole 'you're on the wrong train mate' farce.

BrianW · 26 Apr 2024

Bantamzen said:
One other small piece of good news is that the arches on the ramp leading up towards Cheapside and the Midland Hotel are to be gated off:

Arches near Bradford city centre station to be gated off - but concerns are raised

CITY centre rail arches that are regularly used by rough sleepers for shelter are to be gated off.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

It seems the work will begin next month and be completed sometime in August.

xotGD said:
About time this was addressed.

Good news.

jonesy3001 said:
Always stinks when I walk pass when get off at forster square when I'm changing between the 2 stations, bout time something got done.

61653 HTAFC said:
Bit of a poor do that hostile architecture is the only solution being considered, but we are where we are I guess.

Railings won't stop them being used as urinals though!

And where is it suggested 'these (unacceptable) people' should go- perhaps behind the railings, like a prison; is hanging too good for 'those sort of smelly people'?

Something must be done- indeed; something with some humanity please; places were found for all off the streets when Covid came in.

deltic08 · 26 Apr 2024

Class 170101 said:
It seems to me that a platform at Forster Square isn't needed, rather instead Northern need to be running 2tph, as per pre covid, to free up the existing platforms for LNER to use the long platform rather than using them as extra carriage sidings.

However the question for me is, why are the LNER services needed at either Harrogate or Bradford? Thats caused by a relentless focus on performance at the expense of passeger journeys / connections so said passengers request and demand through services and of course that may require additional, expensive, infrastructure.

at least to Bradford FS the line is wired. Bimodes are required to get to Harrogate.

Bantamzen · 26 Apr 2024

61653 HTAFC said:
Bit of a poor do that hostile architecture is the only solution being considered, but we are where we are I guess.

I guess in time having them not used as homeless shelters might mean they become more attractive to better use, maybe one day as retail units?

61653 HTAFC said:
Railings won't stop them being used as urinals though!

True, but it will be a lot easier to clean up if that happens.

BrianW said:
And where is it suggested 'these (unacceptable) people' should go- perhaps behind the railings, like a prison; is hanging too good for 'those sort of smelly people'?

Something must be done- indeed; something with some humanity please; places were found for all off the streets when Covid came in.

The article I linked does mention that the council will work with homeless charities to find them accommodation. But unfortunately the reality some homeless people don't adapt well to life off the streets when given help and end up back on the streets, its a reality I'm sure many charity workers will tell you about. But this does not mean that areas in city centres should just be left to turn into alternative shelters. Sadly unsanitary conditions and increasingly anti-sociable behaviour has blighted this area, and something does need to be done.

Chris172 · 26 Apr 2024

Will it be a platform 4 or a platform 0?

Bikeman78 · 26 Apr 2024

sjm77 said:
I thought one reason was to allow LNER to run a train every two hours. In theory it could already be accomodated but since the mid-day reductions to hourly services from Bradford to both Skipton and Ilkely the platforms are now used to 'stable' the temporarily superfluous units. It's a funny dilemma, DfT demands cost savings which Northern deliver. The consequence is extra funding has to be found to introduce already promised extra services to London! You couldn't make it up.

How many units stable? For many years there was a 321 that parked up between the peaks. Building an extra platform to stable trains is a strange solution. Wouldn't a siding be cheaper?

30907 · 26 Apr 2024

Bikeman78 said:
How many units stable? For many years there was a 321 that parked up between the peaks. Building an extra platform to stable trains is a strange solution. Wouldn't a siding be cheaper?

It allows rather more flexibility, with the mix of 3- and 4- (and potentially 6-) car Northern trains plus LNER.

BrianW · 26 Apr 2024

Bantamzen said:
I guess in time having them not used as homeless shelters might mean they become more attractive to better use, maybe one day as retail units?

True, but it will be a lot easier to clean up if that happens.

The article I linked does mention that the council will work with homeless charities to find them accommodation. But unfortunately the reality some homeless people don't adapt well to life off the streets when given help and end up back on the streets, its a reality I'm sure many charity workers will tell you about. But this does not mean that areas in city centres should just be left to turn into alternative shelters. Sadly unsanitary conditions and increasingly anti-sociable behaviour has blighted this area, and something does need to be done.

Sadly I agree with you. Back in the day, 'these people' were locked up, whether in a police cell overnight, or longer-term in a mental institution. Neither of those was able to offer the kind of 'emotional support' needed long-term to help change behaviour or bring self-respect. Regarding younger folk, ASBOs etc, I blame the parents- out of work or out to work maybe three low-pay jobs, no security, no proper housing etc, NIMBYs, Liz Truss, 'someone else'. How about higher taxes- like from well-paid train drivers- stand well clear of the edge now ...

Why is another platform being built at Bradford Forster Square?

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