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Bee Network Service Improvements (Existing services)

johncrossley

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Even on the most frequent routes in London, people surely don't set off without knowing in some way how much time they should allow for their journey.

Of course, if you use a journey planner that will give a specific journey time. If you've made the journey before you will have some idea of how long it will take. But there is clearly no guarantee and you have to be prepared for delays.
 
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Mollman

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Who is responsible for printing out and displaying the timetable information long sheet that is always on the left of the large sized information board that is affixed inside the bus shelters?
The answer to everything is basically TfGM as with TfL in London. The only thing that operators are responsible for is the actual running of the bus services and associated activity (employing drivers, vehicle maintenance etc )
 

mangad

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You want to explain that to the people who use the 378/379 Stockport-Bramhall-Heald Green circular bi-directional services which run every hour.
Not sure what your point is. That wouldn't fall under the classification of turn up and go frequencies.

Would someone using those services need to consult a timetable? Of course.
Would someone using the 192 need to consult a timetable? Highly unlikely.
 

Bungle965

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Speaking around punctuality 59 yesterday had some pretty bad bunching issues, 3 were pretty much heading into the City Centre together as I passed at Strangweways yesterday.

I must admit I hadn’t realised how severe the drop off in service was going into Manchester at around 6pm, I checked the app to find there wasn’t a bus for 1/2 hour (compared to every 10 minutes up until that point).
I checked the Bustimes (usual caveats granted) and noticed only one bus actually heading into Manchester.
 

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TheGrandWazoo

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Not sure what your point is. That wouldn't fall under the classification of turn up and go frequencies.

Would someone using those services need to consult a timetable? Of course.
Would someone using the 192 need to consult a timetable? Highly unlikely.
Both you and @Xenophon PCDGS are correct.

When you have high frequency routes on a turn up and go basis, a timetable becomes less of an issue. With the changes for the 36, 37 and 471, it won't be much of a problem (unless it's more fundamental changes like the first or last journey running earlier etc). However, most of the changes that are being implemented on the tranche 1 routes ARE on lower frequency routes and in that case, timetable changes and effective communication is required.
 

mangad

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Both you and @Xenophon PCDGS are correct.

When you have high frequency routes on a turn up and go basis, a timetable becomes less of an issue. With the changes for the 36, 37 and 471, it won't be much of a problem (unless it's more fundamental changes like the first or last journey running earlier etc). However, most of the changes that are being implemented on the tranche 1 routes ARE on lower frequency routes and in that case, timetable changes and effective communication is required.
And I said earlier, communication that will be mostly missed or ignored because the average passenger won't know about changes until they get impacted by them.

I'm very serious about this. My other half works in local government and every time there's some change to roads in an area they get scores of feedback saying "WHY WEREN'T WE CONSULTED?!". To which the answer is always "well there were big signs on the roadside about a consultation, we held feedback sessions and publicised them in various ways, we posted information through your letterbox..." People do not pay attention.

As I said, you could put a big banner outside someone's house saying "YOUR BUS TIMETABLE CHANGES TODAY!" and they still wouldn't notice. You can communicate all you want (and it should be done.). But that doesn't mean people will pay attention.

Remember this one true fact: the people on this forum are not your average bus users.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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And I said earlier, communication that will be mostly missed or ignored because the average passenger won't know about changes until they get impacted by them.

I'm very serious about this. My other half works in local government and every time there's some change to roads in an area they get scores of feedback saying "WHY WEREN'T WE CONSULTED?!". To which the answer is always "well there were big signs on the roadside about a consultation, we held feedback sessions and publicised them in various ways, we posted information through your letterbox..." People do not pay attention.

As I said, you could put a big banner outside someone's house saying "YOUR BUS TIMETABLE CHANGES TODAY!" and they still wouldn't notice. You can communicate all you want (and it should be done.). But that doesn't mean people will pay attention.

Remember this one true fact: the people on this forum are not your average bus users.

I do agree with a lot of that sentiment. Being balanced, if you were to adopt the approach that all comms is wasted as most people don't read anything, then nothing would ever be communicated. Clearly some people DO take notice otherwise businesses and organisations wouldn't have the expense of advertising, leaflet drops etc even if much of it does invariably go from doormat to recycling bin in about 30 seconds. I am being a bit tongue in cheek but take it further... do you advise them of the withdrawal of a service... they'll go out and when it doesn't arrive the first couple of days, then they'll get the hint? Of course not - you have to make some effort to communicate changes. Granted, you could have a plane pulling a banner or tattoo it onto their hand, and some still wouldn't notice but that doesn't mean you don't TRY (and proportionately) to advise them in advance.

Also, these are public bodies and they have an obligation, sometimes implicit and sometimes explicit, to consult and communicate. If people then don't wish to avail themselves of it, then that's fine.

I have said, many times, that people on this forum are atypical. The things that grind people's gears on here aren't the same as the real world. However, advising passengers on changes to the times of their services with hourly or half hourly headways seems sensible.
 

Deerfold

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And I said earlier, communication that will be mostly missed or ignored because the average passenger won't know about changes until they get impacted by them.

I'm very serious about this. My other half works in local government and every time there's some change to roads in an area they get scores of feedback saying "WHY WEREN'T WE CONSULTED?!". To which the answer is always "well there were big signs on the roadside about a consultation, we held feedback sessions and publicised them in various ways, we posted information through your letterbox..." People do not pay attention.

As I said, you could put a big banner outside someone's house saying "YOUR BUS TIMETABLE CHANGES TODAY!" and they still wouldn't notice. You can communicate all you want (and it should be done.). But that doesn't mean people will pay attention.

Remember this one true fact: the people on this forum are not your average bus users.
Whilst many don't regularly check bus websites, at least some will see notices on buses and at bus stations with details of changes, even if it's just a lost of routes changing. Some companies have these, many don't.
 

GusB

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One "improvement" that I would dearly love to see is the total eradication of meaningless phrases such as "Say yellow to the Bee Network". Do they really mean what they say and if so, let us have information on how to do this...<(
For goodness sake, it's just a play on words and no different to any other advertising slogan.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It is just plain and outright stupdiity . Another such offering suggested people "say yellow to buses". The men in white suits would be working overtime if people were found to be doing just that in sizeable numbers..... <(

Quite often, I will share (at least, in part) your views and frustrations. However, I'd not be getting bent out of shape on this one.

As @GusB says, it's something that is a play on words, and it's designed to permeate the consciousness which it has in your case. Remember, some ads are designed to be annoying (cos at least you remember them - webuyanycar? gocompare?). There's a reclamation yard near me and they have a simple yet genius sign advertising Wailray Sleepers.... It works!

My concerns with the Bee Network are much greater than worries about an advertising slogan. Better than something anodyne like "connecting the communities of Greater Manchester" or "we're here to get you there" IMO
 

mayneway

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One "improvement" that I would dearly love to see is the total eradication of meaningless phrases such as "Say yellow to the Bee Network". Do they really mean what they say and if so, let us have information on how to do this...<(
Someone somewhere will have been paid a lot of money to come up with that
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Someone somewhere will have been paid a lot of money to come up with that
I thought that the Bee Network were going to show how things are done with regards the end of profligate spending (and profiteering) by those utterly dreadful private sector bus companies and to ensure that money is spent correctly...then I read your response above...:'(
 

Deerfold

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I thought that the Bee Network were going to show how things are done with regards the end of profligate spending (and profiteering) by those utterly dreadful private sector bus companies and to ensure that money is spent correctly...then I read your response above...:'(
There seems to be no evidence that that's cost a lot of money.
 

Deerfold

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Why not ask that question of the website member who has that opinion (in a conversation). Your posting commencing "it seems" sounds very much like an opinion.
It seems, meaning, I haven't seen, but can't completely rule out.
Whereas you seemed to be taking it as gospel, which is why I replied to you.

If there's any evidence either way, I'd like to see it, rather than complaining about things that may or may not be true.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It seems, meaning, I haven't seen, but can't completely rule out.
Whereas you seemed to be taking it as gospel, which is why I replied to you.

If there's any evidence either way, I'd like to see it, rather than complaining about things that may or may not be true.
I promise you faithfully that I will never go into bus stations in the Greater Manchester area and walk up to the nearest yellow-liveried bus and say "yellow to the bus" nor will I leave Manchester Piccadilly railway station, walk over the bridge over London Road to the TfGM office building and ask permission to enter so that I can say "yellow to the Bee Network"....:p:p:p
 

Leyland Bus

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I promise you faithfully that I will never go into bus stations in the Greater Manchester area and walk up to the nearest yellow-liveried bus and say "yellow to the bus" nor will I leave Manchester Piccadilly railway station, walk over the bridge over London Road to the TfGM office building and ask permission to enter so that I can say "yellow to the Bee Network"....:p:p:p

I really hope this all started off as sarcasm... :rolleyes:
 

Deerfold

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I promise you faithfully that I will never go into bus stations in the Greater Manchester area and walk up to the nearest yellow-liveried bus and say "yellow to the bus" nor will I leave Manchester Piccadilly railway station, walk over the bridge over London Road to the TfGM office building and ask permission to enter so that I can say "yellow to the Bee Network"....:p:p:p
I've no idea what that has to do with complaining about waste at GMCA.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I've no idea what that has to do with complaining about waste at GMCA.
That is why you will note there are organisations known as waste management companies.

I really hope this all started off as sarcasm... :rolleyes:
It most certainly did.

However, it is time to bring this particular "bone of contention" to an abrupt end.
 
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mayneway

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I thought that the Bee Network were going to show how things are done with regards the end of profligate spending (and profiteering) by those utterly dreadful private sector bus companies and to ensure that money is spent correctly...then I read your response above...:'(
I don’t want to say too much as I’ll be accused of being bias and negative but it’s genuinely scary how much money is being wasted.
I don’t know much money has been spent on the ticket machines but they are shocking. The amount of free riding is huge because the ticket machines are not up to the job.

Then there’s the new super radio system being fitted to all buses. The outside company fitting it are being paid a fortune and that’s that good you can’t even understand what’s being said.

It’s only money.
 

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