ptac + priv on oyster

lb001 · 23 Apr 2024

hi, i have a question about having both a priv and a ptac on my oyster card. i work for LNER and get a ptac, which i have loaded on my oyster card. i also have my priv (rail staff leisure card - the non-safeguarded one) loaded on there as well.

to get to kgx i either get the met from wembley park, or chiltern from wembley stadium, but i’ve noticed that it’s charging me £3.20 (the full off-peak price) to use chiltern. i wasn’t sure if it was just because i was using the underground to baker st. and changing (so the discounts weren’t compatible or something?), but today i just went to marylebone and walked, and it still cost £3.20.

anyone have any suggestions? i’ve checked and both the ptac (tfl rail only) and priv (nr only) are loaded on when i asked for it checking by a member of LU staff.

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Haywain · 23 Apr 2024

lb001 said:
hi, i have a question about having both a priv and a ptac on my oyster card. i work for LNER and get a ptac, which i have loaded on my oyster card. i also have my priv (rail staff leisure card - the non-safeguarded one) loaded on there as well.

to get to kgx i either get the met from wembley park, or chiltern from wembley stadium, but i’ve noticed that it’s charging me £3.20 (the full off-peak price) to use chiltern. i wasn’t sure if it was just because i was using the underground to baker st. and changing (so the discounts weren’t compatible or something?), but today i just went to marylebone and walked, and it still cost £3.20.

anyone have any suggestions? i’ve checked and both the ptac (tfl rail only) and priv (nr only) are loaded on when i asked for it checking by a member of LU staff.

You have two conflicting discounts loaded on the same card, and while they may both work in the right way neither of them allow mixed mode journeys. The "PTAC" discount os for London Underground only and the Priv discount is for National Rail only. If you walk between Baker street and Marylebone you are still on a single journey because of an Out of Station Interchange, so it gets joined up automatically. The best approach might be to get the Priv discount removed and put that on to a separate Oyster card, so that you could switch cards when switching modes, but I'm not sure if this would really be cost effective for you.

RJ · 23 Apr 2024

Can the powers that be not create a version of the All Rail Priv that doesn’t have the extra privileges, purely the PAYG concessions?

lb001 · 23 Apr 2024

Haywain said:
You have two conflicting discounts loaded on the same card, and while they may both work in the right way neither of them allow mixed mode journeys. The "PTAC" discount os for London Underground only and the Priv discount is for National Rail only. If you walk between Baker street and Marylebone you are still on a single journey because of an Out of Station Interchange, so it gets joined up automatically. The best approach might be to get the Priv discount removed and put that on to a separate Oyster card, so that you could switch cards when switching modes, but I'm not sure if this would really be cost effective for you.

ahhhhh right with you. i’ll be honest, took me a while to notice it as well, because i just put a load of money on the oyster and just kept tapping. annoyed it’s took me so long to realise.

RJ said:
Can the powers that be not create a version of the All Rail Priv that doesn’t have the extra privileges, purely the PAYG concessions?

ahahahahah imagine doing something that made that much sense in this industry!

Haywain · 23 Apr 2024

RJ said:
Can the powers that be not create a version of the All Rail Priv that doesn’t have the extra privileges, purely the PAYG concessions?

I'm not sure what you mean.

CyrusWuff · 23 Apr 2024

RJ said:
Can the powers that be not create a version of the All Rail Priv that doesn’t have the extra privileges, purely the PAYG concessions?

Wouldn't that be the existing "All Rail-N" discount, which allows PAYG discounts on NR and LU/DLR services, but doesn't let you load a Priv-discounted Travelcard Season?

RJ · 23 Apr 2024

CyrusWuff said:
Wouldn't that be the existing "All Rail-N" discount, which allows PAYG discounts on NR and LU/DLR services, but doesn't let you load a Priv-discounted Travelcard Season?

Yes, but it’s not permitted for those who hold the Priv and PTAC combination!

lb001 · 23 Apr 2024

i get what @RJ is saying, the way the discount arrangement works for ptac+priv atm clearly seems to have a bit of a flaw in that you need 2 oysters to best utilise your discount. in my example (off peak) it’d be wcx-myb £0.80 + baker st.-kgx/stp £0.65, so £1.45, vs. the £3.20 it’s costing me at the minute (i’d be better off just using my 16-25 had i known)

if the system is making them clash, i don’t see why there couldn’t be a discount option to be added to sort it out? to add both on at the same time for just payg? guess it might be difficult with how nr/nr osi’s work

Haywain · 23 Apr 2024

lb001 said:
i get what @RJ is saying, the way the discount arrangement works for ptac+priv atm clearly seems to have a bit of a flaw in that you need 2 oysters to best utilise your discount. in my example (off peak) it’d be wcx-myb £0.80 + baker st.-kgx/stp £0.65, so £1.45, vs. the £3.20 it’s costing me at the minute (i’d be better off just using my 16-25 had i known)

if the system is making them clash, i don’t see why there couldn’t be a discount option to be added to sort it out? to add both on at the same time for just payg? guess it might be difficult with how nr/nr osi’s work

The dact is that they work as they do, and users need to find an effective way of making the best use of them. And, in your case, be aware that there a lot of LNER staff working in London who don't get the PTAC discount at all.

Somewhere · 24 Apr 2024

RJ said:
Can the powers that be not create a version of the All Rail Priv that doesn’t have the extra privileges, purely the PAYG concessions?

Probably possible. Trying to train the staff up on the differences will be the issue
Would the two discounts have different expiry dates though?

Haywain said:
You have two conflicting discounts loaded on the same card, and while they may both work in the right way neither of them allow mixed mode journeys. The "PTAC" discount os for London Underground only and the Priv discount is for National Rail only. If you walk between Baker street and Marylebone you are still on a single journey because of an Out of Station Interchange, so it gets joined up automatically. The best approach might be to get the Priv discount removed and put that on to a separate Oyster card, so that you could switch cards when switching modes, but I'm not sure if this would really be cost effective for you.

The PTAC is valid on all of TfL, not just the Underground.
The PRIV is valid on National Rail, which includes Overground and Elizabeth Line.
So both include Overground and Elizabeth Line. Plus who knows how it treats mixed mode journeys?

Haywain · 24 Apr 2024

Somewhere said:
The PTAC is valid on all of TfL, not just the Underground

The version that LNER staff get is Underground only.

Somewhere · 24 Apr 2024

Haywain said:
The version that LNER staff get is Underground only.

Didn't realise there was such a thing? Is it an Oystercard that comes with the discount already loaded, as there is no such option for TfL staff to load such a discount onto an Oystercard?
Which would require two separate Oystercards anyway

Haywain · 24 Apr 2024

Somewhere said:
Plus who knows how it treats mixed mode journeys?

Its made very clear that the NR Priv is not applied to mixed mode journeys.

Somewhere said:
Didn't realise there was such a thing? Is it an Oystercard that comes with the discount already loaded, as there is no such option for TfL staff to load such a discount onto an Oystercard?
Which would require two separate Oystercards anyway

Even if it is all TfL, it won't cover the journey on Chiltern.

Somewhere · 24 Apr 2024

Haywain said:
Its made very clear that the NR Priv is not applied to mixed mode journeys.

Fair enough. So someone making a mixed mode journey has to use two separate cards to get a NR discount?
I'm lucky enough to be entitled to All Rail, so don't have to deal with this complication!

Haywain said:
Even if it is all TfL, it won't cover the journey on Chiltern.

Same as NR doesn't cover interavailable journeys on the Underground
Chiltern isn't part of TfL anyway, unlike Elizabeth Line and Overground which are both National Rail and TfL

RJ said:
Yes, but it’s not permitted for those who hold the Priv and PTAC combination!

They both have different T&Cs for usage, and likely different expiry dates as well. So would be impractical to have one discount to cover both entitlements

Ralph Ayres · 24 Apr 2024

Although important to those of us who hold them, these discounts affect a small number of people and are well down the pecking order when it comes to using one of the very limited number of settings the now very outdated Oyster system can cater for (and the developer/database admin staff time involved), compared to the latest scheme whichever Mayor is in post wants to bring in. It's also hard to explain the issue to high level management remote from the problem who would ultimately have to authorise any such work being done, and then there's the whole public/political perception problem that we get a pretty good deal anyway compared to those who pay full fare so why are we complaining? As noted it can't anyway do anything to deal with journeys where one train can be used but another can't, so broadly we just have to accept that we get pretty cheap/free travel in specific situations but it may sometimes be less convenient than we'd like.

lb001 · 24 Apr 2024

Haywain said:
The version that LNER staff get is Underground only.

hey, just want to say that’s not correct. it’s now the ‘tfl rail only’ one, so discount applies to lu, overground, elizebeth line, and dlr, and can confirm my ptac has worked on all of these.

Haywain said:
…and, in your case, be aware that there a lot of LNER staff working in London who don't get the PTAC discount at all.

i would just like to say on that, all lner employees who live within greater london are entitled to a ptac, which seems more than fair. those who aren’t living within that area still benefit from london allowance to mitigate the higher cost of living here, plus free reciprocal residential travel on gtr, so swings and roundabouts really.

i generally do thing the way staff travel works especially in london is poor. and the fact ‘be lucky for what you have, it’s how it’s always been’ being the two most used excuses in the industry i deal with every day feels very tired unfortunately.

ptac + priv on oyster

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