Flixbus Discussion

Mikw said:

I've looked at using Flixbus before, but they pick up out of town mostly in my area, which limits it's usefulness. Shame

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Leicester (I am guessing that is where you are from given your forum location), does have most of it's services from Fosse Park but there are a few services each day from St Margarets Bus Station. 3 to London, 1 to Glasgow on the N10 and the new 079 (Manchester via Nottingham Phoenix Park, Sheffield and Meadowhall) will serve the bus station too. Hopefully that helps.

Since my last post in #1390, more changes have come to light for 25th April.
002 Leeds - London will have upto 2 extra trips per day Tuesday-Thursday
078 - Stops at Bristol West of England Uni have been removed
090 - Edinburgh - Glasgow running 8 trips per day, each way, calling at Harthill and Livingston. The 090 will serve St Andrews House as well instead of Edinburgh Coach Station.

Also from 1st May, there are an additional 2 round trips added to the 041 Bristol - London which will be operated by Fernhill Travel/Rowgate Group

Source for the new routes is from endless searches of the Flixbus website with some help from their open data which bustimes.org helpfully shows. Full timetables for these new services can be found in the Google sheets linked above in post #1390
Source for the operator of the new trips on the 041 is from Twitter/X from the CEO of Rowgate Group, Simon Rowland, who uses a protected Twitter account so links won't work. I have got a photo below though.

Simon Rowland
@SimonCKRowland1
Fernhill expands partnership with Flixbus. From 1st May we add Bristol to our routes.

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christopherrfc said:

A new service between Glasgow and Edinburgh calling at Harthill and Livingston is starting this Thursday the 25th of April.

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It would have offered an excellent fast link to Edinburgh if it actually went into Livingston e.g. down the Fastlink to the Centre, but I really don't see the point in stopping only at Deer Park. There's not even any other bus stops or bus services nearby to connect to?

Mikw said:

I've looked at using Flixbus before, but they pick up out of town mostly in my area, which limits it's usefulness. Shame

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They rather swiftly axed their stop in Loughborough. Rather the opposite of a hyped-up rapid expansion of Flixbus services in my view.

markymark2000 said:

Leicester (I am guessing that is where you are from given your forum location), does have most of it's services from Fosse Park but there are a few services each day from St Margarets Bus Station. 3 to London, 1 to Glasgow on the N10 and the new 079 (Manchester via Nottingham Phoenix Park, Sheffield and Meadowhall) will serve the bus station too. Hopefully that helps.

Since my last post in #1390, more changes have come to light for 25th April.
002 Leeds - London will have upto 2 extra trips per day Tuesday-Thursday
078 - Stops at Bristol West of England Uni have been removed
090 - Edinburgh - Glasgow running 8 trips per day, each way, calling at Harthill and Livingston. The 090 will serve St Andrews House as well instead of Edinburgh Coach Station.

Also from 1st May, there are an additional 2 round trips added to the 041 Bristol - London which will be operated by Fernhill Travel/Rowgate Group

Source for the new routes is from endless searches of the Flixbus website with some help from their open data which bustimes.org helpfully shows. Full timetables for these new services can be found in the Google sheets linked above in post #1390
Source for the operator of the new trips on the 041 is from Twitter/X from the CEO of Rowgate Group, Simon Rowland, who uses a protected Twitter account so links won't work. I have got a photo below though.

View attachment 156974

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Yep, Leicester. I do travel down to London by coach sometimes as the price of trains is terribly high. But getting to Fosse Park is a huge pain - not to mention coming back again. The St Margaret's times are not convenient at all. National Express - thankfully - provide a decent service from St Margarets, but i would try Flixbus if they went from St Margaret's more often

Mikw said:

Yep, Leicester. I do travel down to London by coach sometimes as the price of trains is terribly high. But getting to Fosse Park is a huge pain - not to mention coming back again. The St Margaret's times are not convenient at all. National Express - thankfully - provide a decent service from St Margarets, but i would try Flixbus if they went from St Margaret's more often

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I don't really have any reason to visit Leicester but I've used the flixbus service to Sheffield Meadowhall which serves Fosse Park. The last thing the majority of customers on the bus want is a crawl in to and then out of the city centre. I use the Finchley Rd Stop vice Victoria Coach station for the same reason. I suspect for Flixbus the city centre market is already accounted for by National Express. Its like Ryanair v BA for coaches.

computerSaysNo said:

It would have offered an excellent fast link to Edinburgh if it actually went into Livingston e.g. down the Fastlink to the Centre, but I really don't see the point in stopping only at Deer Park. There's not even any other bus stops or bus services nearby to connect to?

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Because of the rules regarding local passengers ('Local' deemed as passengers alighting less than 15 miles from where they boarded, measured as the crow flies), passengers can only use Livingston stop to travel to or from Glasgow. This will remain the case unless a Livingston stop is moved significantly more west or Flixbus register the route as a local bus service (which seems very unlikely considering Flix haven't done this for any other area even where there is potentially decent demand). Even moving the stop to Livingston Centre wouldn't permit passengers to travel Edinburgh - Livingston (and vice versa).

joieman said:

They rather swiftly axed their stop in Loughborough. Rather the opposite of a hyped-up rapid expansion of Flixbus services in my view.

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There are more changes to come at the end of May as well as around the 20th June as well. My view is that Flixbus is currently milking existing operators and there is only so much that they can or will do. I don't think Flix can massively expand now without more operators. Will that happen? Only time will tell but existing operators may struggle to get much more.

Still my opinion but looking at the operators they do have. Most seem to have hit the peak of what they are happy with. I can't see many more opportunities to squeeze existing operators for more buses. Especially with McGills group expanding again in May and June. Newport Transport increasing getting another 3 bus duties at the end of June (albeit 2 of the duties are only on the road for 11 hours). One thing they could and should be doing is looking at vehicle utilisation though as that would facilitate a good number of extra trips each day. McGills for example has upto 2 buses which sit in London all day (N11 and N31), plus they are about to have one bus which sits in Liverpool for 15 hours every day (new 080 timetable). Belle Vue has some poor utilisation as well with some vehicles being on the road for around 10 hours (time includes layover at terminus)

markymark2000 said:

Because of the rules regarding local passengers ('Local' deemed as passengers alighting less than 15 miles from where they boarded, measured as the crow flies), passengers can only use Livingston stop to travel to or from Glasgow. This will remain the case unless a Livingston stop is moved significantly more west or Flixbus register the route as a local bus service (which seems very unlikely considering Flix haven't done this for any other area even where there is potentially decent demand). Even moving the stop to Livingston Centre wouldn't permit passengers to travel Edinburgh - Livingston (and vice versa).

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Edinburgh Bus Station - Halbeath P&R is roughly 11.8 miles as the crow flies, and I've done it without question a couple times now.

318266 said:

Edinburgh Bus Station - Halbeath P&R is roughly 11.8 miles as the crow flies, and I've done it without question a couple times now.

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You shouldn't be making that journey and that is why Flixbus won't sell tickets or do any seat reservations for that journey. Legally, if a passenger is travelling less than 15 miles on a regular scheduled service, it must be registered. If McGills are caught by the traffic commissioner letting you make those journeys, one potential punishment is that they can have their operators licence revoked for failing to register the service.

McGills need to perhaps remind drivers that the 092 and 094 towards Edinburgh, Halbeath and Ingliston are set down only, and northbound towards Aberdeen/Perth/Inverness these stops are pick up only.

Blindtraveler said:

Potentially the only one of their services I might ever use as it's such a short journey they can't possibly get it wrong???

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The frequency is pretty low compared to the 900. I would rather use the turn and go 900.

markymark2000 said:

You shouldn't be making that journey and that is why Flixbus won't sell tickets or do any seat reservations for that journey. Legally, if a passenger is travelling less than 15 miles on a regular scheduled service, it must be registered. If McGills are caught by the traffic commissioner letting you make those journeys, one potential punishment is that they can have their operators licence revoked for failing to register the service.

McGills need to perhaps remind drivers that the 092 and 094 towards Edinburgh, Halbeath and Ingliston are set down only, and northbound towards Aberdeen/Perth/Inverness these stops are pick up only.

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It's advertised on the posters at Edinburgh Bus Station (which have council logos on them, not Flixbus logos) as a valid journey, there is quite literally nothing saying such a journey is impossible for an ad-hoc booking (which as an enthusiast is 100% of my travel with Flixbus), other than the website not selling the ticket - which the average Joe (up to and including software nerds like myself) would see as a bug. Clearly the knowledge of this law has not gone further than the backend.

route101 said:

The frequency is pretty low compared to the 900. I would rather use the turn and go 900.

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Important to note that the 090 is somehow timed slower than the 900, which I can't help but find somewhat antithetic to the assumed point of competing with the 900!

Just to add to @markymark2000's post, see this paragraph of the attached document (Local Bus Service Registration in Scotland - Guide for Operators):

1. WHAT IS A LOCAL SERVICE?
It is a service using Public Service Vehicles (PSVs) to carry passengers at separate fares
over short distances. The route can be of any overall length, as long as throughout its
length passengers can get off within 24.15 kms (15 miles) (measured in a straight line)
of the place at which they were picked up.
If on a long distance service there are some parts of the route where passengers
can make local journeys of 24.15 kms (15 miles) or less, then those parts of
the route should be registered as separate local services.

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If Flixbus is carrying passengers on journeys shorter than 15 miles without registering them as local services, they're potentially in hot water. Clearly it's not the fault of the passenger if there's no publicity to indicate that these journeys cannot be made, but the operator should be aware of the basics!

318266 said:

It's advertised on the posters at Edinburgh Bus Station (which have council logos on them, not Flixbus logos) as a valid journey, there is quite literally nothing saying such a journey is impossible for an ad-hoc booking (which as an enthusiast is 100% of my travel with Flixbus), other than the website not selling the ticket - which the average Joe (up to and including software nerds like myself) would see as a bug. Clearly the knowledge of this law has not gone further than the backend.

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Flixbus have never been very good at keeping people informed about the local journeys issue. I'm not sure if on the continent, their stops tend to be much further apart, or whether these rules don't apply over there. If so, that could explain why Flixbus is so bad at promotion of these restrictions. The other possibility is that Scotland is one of the only places where passengers can just board the bus it seems, everywhere as far as I am aware, it's pre booking only and so if you are forced to pre book, you won't be offered these journeys.

GusB said:

but the operator should be aware of the basics!

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I'm not sure how this all shows up on the drivers app but for the 092/094, the easy thing to do should be setting official pick up/set down only restrictions on the stops and show this detail to drivers. Most drivers seem to understand that and so if someone were to try and make such journeys, the driver would have a prompt to show that they shouldn't be picking up at that stop etc.

paul1609 said:

I don't really have any reason to visit Leicester but I've used the flixbus service to Sheffield Meadowhall which serves Fosse Park. The last thing the majority of customers on the bus want is a crawl in to and then out of the city centre. I use the Finchley Rd Stop vice Victoria Coach station for the same reason. I suspect for Flixbus the city centre market is already accounted for by National Express. Its like Ryanair v BA for coaches.

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While that's true i live on the other side of Leicester, so it's two bus journies to Fosse Park. So best case scenario is 1 hour 15 minutes extra to journey time. And a late evening return means a much reduced service so might have to wait about an hour for each bus home. I get why they don't serve the city itself for many of the journeys but it makes then unavailable as an option for many

markymark2000 said:

Because of the rules regarding local passengers ('Local' deemed as passengers alighting less than 15 miles from where they boarded, measured as the crow flies), passengers can only use Livingston stop to travel to or from Glasgow. This will remain the case unless a Livingston stop is moved significantly more west or Flixbus register the route as a local bus service (which seems very unlikely considering Flix haven't done this for any other area even where there is potentially decent demand). Even moving the stop to Livingston Centre wouldn't permit passengers to travel Edinburgh - Livingston (and vice versa).

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Thanks for the info. I will wait and see if they advertise it anywhere.
How can you tell if a route is registered as local or not?

computerSaysNo said:

Thanks for the info. I will wait and see if they advertise it anywhere.
How can you tell if a route is registered as local or not?

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You can search for registered routes on the UK Government website. https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/. You can search by route number, legal operator name, operators licence number and start/end point (though start and end points can be wrong sometimes)

computerSaysNo said:

Thanks for the info. I will wait and see if they advertise it anywhere.
How can you tell if a route is registered as local or not?

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There's a section on the gov uk website where you can look up service registrations

Eyersey468 said:

There's a section on the gov uk website where you can look up service registrations

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Ah great thanks, found it
(For anyone else looking, the site is here (https://www.gov.uk/find-local-bus-services)

Edit: searching for "Flixbus" returns no results. Would services definitely be listed under Flixbus if any existed, or would they be listed under the operator that Flixbus has contracted to run the service?

Also, is this the data that people have mentioned before has lots of errors in it? In some cases it seems like it does contain errors, for example the Citylink 900 is listed as operating a circular service to and from the V&A in Dundee which is incorrect? Answered in post #1425 but I missed it before I sent my reply.

markymark2000 said:

You can search for registered routes on the UK Government website. https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/. You can search by route number, legal operator name, operators licence number and start/end point (though start and end points can be wrong sometimes)

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Sorry, for some reason I missed your message when I checked, and only saw post #1426. You saying that the start and end points are sometimes wrong confirms my question above, thanks.

computerSaysNo said:

Would services definitely be listed under Flixbus if any existed, or would they be listed under the operator that Flixbus has contracted to run the service?

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That's how I'd expect them to be. The "operator" in this case would be Flixbus and the company that provides the coaches is simply a "contractor" - this is certainly what Citylink does when services function as local routes.

I'm actually struggling to find any operator licence for Flixbus on the gov.uk site. Does it use some obscure subsidiary name?

GusB said:

I'm actually struggling to find any operator licence for Flixbus on the gov.uk site. Does it use some obscure subsidiary name?

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If they don't have any local registered routes or depots, I don't think they need one. I can't find one for Megabus either, but can easily for National Express (distinct from their bus services).

GusB said:

That's how I'd expect them to be. The "operator" in this case would be Flixbus and the company that provides the coaches is simply a "contractor" - this is certainly what Citylink does when services function as local routes.

I'm actually struggling to find any operator licence for Flixbus on the gov.uk site. Does it use some obscure subsidiary name?

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They made an application in summer 2019 for one vehicle at Whippet's depot, PF2026148, in East of England N&P2390. Not sure if it was withdrawn or not granted.

Deerfold said:

If they don't have any local registered routes or depots, I don't think they need one. I can't find one for Megabus either, but can easily for National Express (distinct from their bus services).

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Flixbus applied for an operators licence in the Eastern Traffic Area in 2019 using the Whippet site at their base. The application was later withdrawn.

O licence number was PF2026148 SI but it doesn't come up on search. https://www.gov.uk/find-vehicle-operators

However searching on this link (https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-operator-licence-applications) brings up the following.

• PF2026148​

  FLIXBUS UK LTD.
  PF2026148 SI
  FLIXBUS UK LTD. Director(s): MAX SEBASTIAN ZEUMER
  
  Publication: N&P East of England(2440), Application Withdrawn
  Date: 12 Aug 2020

• PF2026148​

  FLIXBUS UK LTD.
  Public Inquiry (81578) to be held at The Court Room (Cambridge), CB2 8BF, Eastern Traffic Area, Eastbrook, Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge, on 7 April 2020 commencing at 13:30 PF2026148 FLIXBUS UK LTD. Director(s): MAX SEBASTIAN ZEUMER FIRST FLOOR, TEMPLE BACK, 10 TEMPLE BACK, BRISTOL, BS1 6FL
  S14 - Consideration of new application under Section 14 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)
  
  Publication: N&P East of England(2419), Notice of PI to be held
  Date: 18 Mar 2020

• PF2026148​

  FLIXBUS UK LTD.
  PF2026148 SI
  FLIXBUS UK LTD. Director(s): Max Sebastian ZEUMER
  First Floor, Templeback, 10 Temple Back, Bristol, BS1 6FL Operating Centre: UNIT 1-2, BUCKINGWAY BUSINESS PARK, ROWLES WAY, SWAVESEY, CAMBRIDGE, CB24 4UG Authorisation: 1 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): Roger Birch
  Publication: N&P East of England(2390), New Application
  Date: 28 Aug 2019

• PF2026148​

  FLIXBUS UK LTD.
  Public Inquiry (81578) to be held at The Court Room (Cambridge), CB2 8BF, Eastern Traffic Area, Eastbrook, Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge, on 30 July 2020 commencing at 14:00 (Previous Publication2419)) Previous hearing on 07 April 2020 was adjourned. PF2026148 FLIXBUS UK LTD. Director(s): MAX SEBASTIAN ZEUMER FIRST FLOOR, TEMPLE BACK, 10 TEMPLE BACK, BRISTOL, BS1 6FL
  S14 - Consideration of new application under Section 14 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)
  
  Publication: N&P East of England(2438), Notice of PI to be held
  Date: 29 Jul 2020

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I've noticed after the 23rd May you can't book the 090 to Edinburgh from Glasgow and vice versa.

AndrewTaylor95 said:

I've noticed after the 23rd May you can't book the 090 to Edinburgh from Glasgow and vice versa.

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There is a timetable change to the McGills operation on the 23rd May (091 and 092 increasing) and so my guess is that this is a little bit of a trial on the Edinburgh-Glasgow 090 but also they may be still trying to confirm the timetable for after the 23rd May.

markymark2000 said:

There is a timetable change to the McGills operation on the 23rd May (091 and 092 increasing) and so my guess is that this is a little bit of a trial on the Edinburgh-Glasgow 090 but also they may be still trying to confirm the timetable for after the 23rd May.

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Can't see it lasting tbh, I used it yesterday to Edinburgh and it took some route round Livingston around Deans then it stopped in Knightsridge fastlink and never even went into Deer Park. A S**tshow the route could be much faster than what it currently is.

AndrewTaylor95 said:

Can't see it lasting tbh, I used it yesterday to Edinburgh and it took some route round Livingston around Deans then it stopped in Knightsridge fastlink and never even went into Deer Park. A S**tshow the route could be much faster than what it currently is.

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I used the 090 yesterday. Cost was £5 one way booked a few hours before hand. There were 4 passengers including myself. We didn't go round around Deans. We did stop at Harthill and Deer Park despite no one getting on or off. The 090 does not use the bus station either.