Class 222 Meridian 9 and 4 carriages

7 and 16 Class 222/0 Meridians used to be formed as 7 and 4 carriages when they are first built between 2003 and 2005 for Midland Mainline and had entered the service in 31st May 2004 and replaced InterCity 125 and Class 170 Turbostars for London St Pancras International to Nottingham, Leicester, Derby and Sheffield. But they have formed as 7 and 5 carriages. 4 Class 222/1 Meridians formerly known as Pioneers and they used to be formed as 4 carriages, but they are now 5 carriages as well. Does anyone have any idea which of these carriage numbers they have? I'm trying to think and make a list of Class 222 Meridian fleets that they used to be in 9 and 4 carriages.

222001-222007 were 9 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222001 were, from the first class end, 60241-60341-60441-60621-60561-60551-60541-60531-60161

222008-222023 were 4 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222008 were 60248-60918-60628-60168

222101-222104 were 4 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222101 were 60271-60571-60681-60191

The first lot of changes reduced 222001-222007 to 8 coaches by transferring the 6053x coach to 222011-222017, which became 5 coach trains.

The second lot of changes was more messy, but reduced 222001-222007 to 7 coaches to allow 222008-222010 and 222018-222023 to become 5 coach trains.

The third lot of changes meant that 222005, 222006 became 5 coach trains giving up 2 coaches each to allow 222101-222104 to become 5 coach trains also.

JonathanH said:

The second lot of changes was more messy, but reduced 222001-222007 to 7 coaches to allow 222008-222010 and 222018-222023 to become 5 coach trains.

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222007 was never a 7 car. For those 9 units to become 5 cars, 1 coach came out of 222001-222006 and 3 coaches came out of 222007 which became a 5 car as a result.

louis97 said:

222007 was never a 7 car. For those 9 units to become 5 cars, 1 coach came out of 222001-222006 and 3 coaches came out of 222007 which became a 5 car as a result.

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Yes, of course. That was a slip. 222007 also has a composite car made out of a first class one.

What will happen to these when the new stock arrives?

GardenRail said:

What will happen to these when the new stock arrives?

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No decision is in the public domain. Therefore any discussion is purely speculative and not appropriate in this thread. Try here instead - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ter-the-class-810s-replace-them.249084/page-3

I have made the list of Class 222 in 9 and 4 carriages that they used to be. The Standard Class is in the front row of the carriages and the First Class is in the rear of the carriages. Maybe they could be reformed by in their original carriage formations, after they are withdrawn from EMR in either 2024 or 2025 in the future.

Here's the example of the carriage formations that the Class 222s will be look like.

222001: 60161, 60531, 60541, 60551, 60561, 60621, 60441, 60341, 60241

222008: 60168, 60628, 60918, 60248

222101: 60191, 60681, 60571, 60271

Class 222/0 Meridian 9 carriages
222001: 60161, 60531, 60541, 60551, 60561, 60621, 60441, 60341, 60241
222002: 60162, 60532, 60542, 60552, 60562, 60622, 60442, 60342, 60242
222003: 60163, 60533, 60543, 60553, 60563, 60623, 60443, 60343, 60243
222004: 60164, 60534, 60544, 60554, 60564, 60624, 60444, 60344, 60244
222005: 60165, 60535, 60545, 60555, 60565, 60625, 60445, 60345, 60245
222006: 60166, 60536, 60546, 60556, 60566, 60626, 60446, 60346, 60246
222007: 60167, 60537, 60547, 60557, 60567, 60627, 60447, 60347, 60247

Class 222/0 Meridian 4 carriages
222008: 60168, 60628, 60918, 60248
222009: 60169, 60629, 60919, 60249
222010: 60170, 60630, 60920, 60250
222011: 60171, 60631, 60921, 60251
222012: 60172, 60632, 60922, 60252
222013: 60173, 60633, 60923, 60253
222014: 60174, 60634, 60924, 60254
222015: 60175, 60635, 60925, 60255
222016: 60176, 60636, 60926, 60256
222017: 60177, 60637, 60927, 60257
222018: 60178, 60638, 60928, 60258
222019: 60179, 60639, 60929, 60259
222020: 60180, 60640, 60930, 60260
222021: 60181, 60641, 60931, 60261
222022: 60182, 60642, 60932, 60262
222023: 60183, 60643, 60933, 60263

Class 222/1 Meridian 4 carriages
222101: 60191, 60681, 60571, 60271
222102: 60192, 60682, 60572, 60272
222103: 60193, 60683, 60573, 60273
222104: 60194, 60684, 60574, 60274

JonathanH said:

Yes, of course. That was a slip. 222007 also has a composite car made out of a first class one.

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As well as this 222018 has a former first class coach in standard class (coach B)

What is the possible benefit to restoring so many 222 to 4 car units, as is now proposed in post #7, which quickly turns this into speculation?

If they were Voyagers everyone in these forums would be demanding they be increased to 5 or more cars. So aren’t the only logical future users going to be wanting at least 5 cars?

swt_passenger said:

What is the possible benefit to restoring so many 222 to 4 car units, as is now proposed in post #7, which quickly turns this into speculation?

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The OP has similarly proposed that Class 221s (i.e. units 142-144) be restored to their original formations. To what end, I do not know.

swt_passenger said:

What is the possible benefit to restoring so many 222 to 4 car units, as is now proposed in post #7, which quickly turns this into speculation?

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At 21-22 years old (when EMR hands them back), unlikely to be anyone wanting to operate them in multiple. And would be at good age for mid life reforming.

Any future use and formation becomes speculative, could just have easily asked if could scrap a few end cars, keep the bogies, engines, fittings etc as spares, and make some 6car formations, or even simpler reduce the 7 to 6 whilst lengthening some 5 to 6.

Personally I can't see any need for 4car Express units

JonathanH said:

222001-222007 were 9 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222001 were, from the first class end, 60241-60341-60441-60621-60561-60551-60541-60531-60161

222008-222023 were 4 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222008 were 60248-60918-60628-60168

222101-222104 were 4 coach Meridians - carriage numbers for 222101 were 60271-60571-60681-60191

The first lot of changes reduced 222001-222007 to 8 coaches by transferring the 6053x coach to 222011-222017, which became 5 coach trains.

The second lot of changes was more messy, but reduced 222001-222007 to 7 coaches to allow 222008-222010 and 222018-222023 to become 5 coach trains.

The third lot of changes meant that 222005, 222006 became 5 coach trains giving up 2 coaches each to allow 222101-222104 to become 5 coach trains also.

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Weren’t 2221xx originally Pioneers rather than Meridians.

cjmillsnun said:

Weren’t 2221xx originally Pioneers rather than Meridians.

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'Pioneer' was indeed the Hull Trains brand name for their 222s, 'Meridian' was MM specific.

Bit like 'Adelante' being a First brand name for the 180s, Grand Central I believe briefly used the term 'Zephyr' when they obtained some, but it never caught on.

James Kevill said:

Maybe they could be reformed by in their original carriage formations, after they are withdrawn from EMR in either 2024 or 2025 in the future.

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It seems highly unlikely that four cars would be considered enough by any future operators, especially given the inefficient seating layout.

EDIT: and a bit of 222 trivia, the software and SDO system allows for them to operate as thirteen car trains (a four car in multiple with a nine). Obviously this isn’t possible with the current formation of the stock, but does anyone know whether a thirteen car train has ever operated? Most likely in an out of course train rescue type situation.

43066 said:

And a bit of 222 trivia, the software and SDO system allows for them to operate as thirteen car trains (a four car in multiple with a nine). Obviously this isn’t possible with the current formation of the stock, but does anyone know whether a thirteen car train has ever operated? Most likely in an out of course train rescue type situation.

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A 14 car ran as a rescue move in January 2023, 222004 was used to rescue 222003 from Cricklewood to Etches Park

According to RTT, 1D63 17:35 St. P - Notts is booked for 3x5-car Meridians today (007,017,020), presumably lead unit locked oou off St. P as can’t be platformed.

ECS came from Cricklewood, so presumably a move to get an extra unit from Cricklewood to Nottingham (though won’t need them tomorrow as strike day).

Will wait a few minutes here at Bedford Interchange to see if its happened.

DHB1950 said:

According to RTT, 1D63 17:35 St. P - Notts is booked for 3x5-car Meridians today (007,017,020), presumably lead unit locked oou off St. P as can’t be platformed.

ECS came from Cricklewood, so presumably a move to get an extra unit from Cricklewood to Nottingham (though won’t need them tomorrow as strike day).

Will wait a few minutes here at Bedford Interchange to see if its happened.

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15 car is too long for platform at St Pancras

Data Feed Glitch

Well, that was disappointing. 2x5. Not surprising, doubted wether the signalling would allow it.

Not really worth the wait. Certainly didn’t compare with waiting at Sandy hoping for a Haymarket A4 on the Elizabethan.

Not that I was aware what trains Haymarket worked when I was 10. Trainspotting in those days was just continuous surprises

JN114 said:

15 car is too long for platform at St Pancras

Data Feed Glitch

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Or one unit not de-allocated by control.