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PlusBus Tickets

Vexed

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That's quite the step up from bricking a Ticketer by trying to scan a rail Aztec, which was the last story I heard! :D

Glad to hear it's seemingly ready-to-go now.
I'm pretty sure I'd read somewhere they had got them working in the trial areas but I can't find any source for that now...

Not that I'm complaining if it still crashes the machine, I'd hope the driver would just let you on anyway.

I've just spoken to MetroLine (when announcing the West Yorkshire trial they said you had to show the ticket instead of scanning) and they said they haven't had any updates from bus companies about it. So things aren't actually as good as I had remembered.
 
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MrJeeves

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I'm pretty sure I'd read somewhere they had got them working in the trial areas but I can't find any source for that now...

Not that I'm complaining if it still crashes the machine, I'd hope the driver would just let you on anyway.

I've just spoken to MetroLine (when announcing the West Yorkshire trial they said you had to show the ticket instead of scanning) and they said they haven't had any updates from bus companies about it. So things aren't actually as good as I had remembered.
Ah well.

I'd rather they roll it out everywhere even without the scanning, just so that customers might make better use of it, hopefully encouraging better awareness of the tickets as a result!
 

winks

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Is it in the pipeline the PlusBus can be added to smart cards ? It would make sense given that you can load any pre-bought NR ticket onto them …?
 

Vexed

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Is it in the pipeline the PlusBus can be added to smart cards ? It would make sense given that you can load any pre-bought NR ticket onto them …?
Doubt it would become national, smartcards for day tickets have largely been surpassed by eTickets. Also not everything is available on a smartcard today, the system is a mess. It's taken long enough to get eTicket PlusBus sorted!

Bluestar/UniLink bus, for example, withdrew their smartcard (The Key Smartcard as they are part of Go-Ahead) a couple years ago. Though other Go-Ahead operations near GTR services haven't withdrawn their smartcard products, which in fact using KeyGo will cap at plusbus prices if you use the same smartcard to travel by train the same day.

Go-Ahead seem to offer weekly and monthly PlusBus on a smartcard for up front purchase (in addition to KeyGo) with Metrobus and Brighton & Hove buses. This only exists as both are in the same owning group.
https://www.metrobus.co.uk/plusbus

So it's clearly possible!
 

Man of Kent

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The underlying hardware nearly all bus companies use (Ticketer) does support railway Aztec codes. I expect each operator will have to set up the local scheme(s) they are part of
Correct. Instructions on how to do this were sent to scheme managers last week, to be implemented from 7 April.
 

Vexed

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Correct. Instructions on how to do this were sent to scheme managers last week, to be implemented from 7 April.
Good to hear things are sorted then. That's the same date I heard, but I kept things a little vague as I wouldn't be surprised if things slip, or it happens overnight Monday ready for Tuesday in RCS (pure speculation, I have no idea what time of day RCS updates).
 

OscarH

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Good to hear things are sorted then. That's the same date I heard, but I kept things a little vague as I wouldn't be surprised if things slip, or it happens overnight Monday ready for Tuesday in RCS (pure speculation, I have no idea what time of day RCS updates).
Distributes just gone midnight, but every retailer will work differently, some will update immediately, some will refresh at a fixed time in the early hours (or if you're a TVM you just don't update for weeks and get away with it :P)
 

Edvid

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Is it in the pipeline the PlusBus can be added to smart cards ?
An interesting question.

Even after tomorrow's national rollout PlusBus addons for Day Travelcards will remain limited to CCST (or PRT at some ticket offices). I doubt TfL will ever OK eTicket fulfilment for Travelcards, so that won't change unless ITSO fulfilment for PlusBus is enabled or the RDG drop the rule that all tickets in a transaction must be fulfilled the same way.

PlusBus addons for cross-London single/return tickets will remain limited to CCST/PRT as well - Trainline sales aside, perhaps - but eTicket fulfilment may be an option in the long term. It'll depend on how TfL and the RDG proceed following the (still ongoing?) handheld barcode reader trial.
 

Haywain

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An interesting question.

Even after tomorrow's national rollout PlusBus addons for Day Travelcards will remain limited to CCST (or PRT at some ticket offices). I doubt TfL will ever OK eTicket fulfilment for Travelcards, so that won't change unless ITSO fulfilment for PlusBus is enabled or the RDG drop the rule that all tickets in a transaction must be fulfilled the same way.

PlusBus addons for cross-London single/return tickets will remain limited to CCST/PRT as well - Trainline sales aside, perhaps - but eTicket fulfilment may be an option in the long term. It'll depend on how TfL and the RDG proceed following the (still ongoing?) handheld barcode reader trial.
Whislt you are correct in what you say, it is not the PlusBus add-on that is limited to CCST, but the fulfilment method for the whole transaction. Those PlusBus tickets will be able to be fulfilled to eTicket if the accompanying ticket can also be fulfilled the same way.
 

redreni

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It is unfortunate that all points of purchase other than ticket offices and on-board staff (although it's pot luck if the latter will sell PlusBus at all - I'm 1 for 2 on the last couple of attempts) require the PlusBus ticket to be bought at the same time as the qualifying ticket. That's not always practical.

For instance, on a football away day, if the ground is a long way from the nearest station, the norm for me is the decision whether to walk, take the bus or share taxis tends to be made by consensus among small(ish) groups. It is not always possible for me to know if I want the PlusBus add-on when I'm booking an Advance weeks earlier.

I appreciate why online retailers are unlikely to be allowed to sell PlusBuses as a standalone ticket, as this would often undercut day tickets and would thus be open to abuse by non-rail passengers. It would be very handy if you could buy the PlusBus add-on after the date of purchase, up until and including the date of travel, from the retailer from whom you bought it, though. You would still only be allowed to buy one PlusBus ticket for the origin, and one for the destination, per ticket, but you wouldn't necessarily have to do it at the time.

Does anybody know if online retailers could, in theory, do this compliantly with the specs? I'm not sure if it isn't offered because there's not much demand for it (i.e. not enough to justify the work involved in doing this), because it isn't permitted, or possibly because (until now) it would have required a second ToD reference and collection fee, meaning it wouldn't be worth the retailer's while? If the ToD thing is a factor, might the ability to offer the PlusBus as an e-ticket change anything in this regard?
 

Adam Williams

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Does anybody know if online retailers could, in theory, do this compliantly with the specs?
I don't see any immediate blockers. The ticket terms and conditions recognise a customer might want to purchase it later down the line.

I'm not sure if it isn't offered because there's not much demand for it (i.e. not enough to justify the work involved in doing this), because it isn't permitted, or possibly because (until now) it would have required a second ToD reference and collection fee, meaning it wouldn't be worth the retailer's while? If the ToD thing is a factor, might the ability to offer the PlusBus as an e-ticket change anything in this regard?
I'd imagine it'd overwhelmingly be "not enough demand for such functionality so as to justify the engineering work". E-Tickets will be free to fulfil for this product given its price (vs 7.5p for ToD), but keep in mind there will be fixed card fees as well - that are levied on a per-transaction basis.

Equally, most retailers will have gone down the route of treating PlusBus like a journey "add-on". So, there will be probably be non-trivial work required to allow for a new flow where just an add-on is being purchased on its own (in conjunction with a past purchase).

If you consider a Leamington PlusBus is £5.20, that's 23p you get as a retailer in commission for a passenger without a Railcard. I'd suggest 13p isn't far off the card fees for a purchase like that, plus any other supplier costs you may have. We're talking pennies profit each time here.

How many PlusBus tickets do you need to sell - noting that they're already unpopular because they've had a reputation of being a bit of an old, badly-maintained product with acceptance issues that force a purchase to become ToD - before you cover the engineering work?

It is not always possible for me to know if I want the PlusBus add-on when I'm booking an Advance weeks earlier.
They are refundable products, so you could buy it anyway and request a single-ticket refund. Just the admin fee to contend with there..
 

redreni

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I don't see any immediate blockers. The ticket terms and conditions recognise a customer might want to purchase it later down the line.

I'd imagine it'd overwhelmingly be "not enough demand for such functionality so as to justify the engineering work". E-Tickets will be free to fulfil for this product given its price (vs 7.5p for ToD), but keep in mind there will be fixed card fees as well - that are levied on a per-transaction basis.

They are refundable products, so you could buy it anyway and request a single-ticket refund. Just the admin fee to contend with there..
Thanks for the insight!

As long as ticket offices exist, it's better for me to wait and only buy it if I need it.

I think a lot of the limitations of online retailers' PlusBus offerings would be laid bare if there weren't ticket offices, though. People wanting PlusBuses for their origin *and* their destination. People wanting one for a station of their choice in conjunction with a day Ranger.

One would be heavily reliant on onboard staff, some of whom would need to stop telling people they should go / should have gone to a ticket office and learn how to sell them. There would still be a gap with respect to DOO services.
 

Adam Williams

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People wanting PlusBuses for their origin *and* their destination
We sell this online, don't we?

People wanting one for a station of their choice in conjunction with a day Ranger.
I'd argue we could achieve this if Ranger / Rovers were more readily retailable online, however the industry seems to be afraid of E-Ticket fulfilment in this area.
 

redreni

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We sell this online, don't we?
Very possibly. Then again, I just searched for a journey from Slough to Oxford on a well known app and wasn't offered PlusBus at all. I'm sure I have also come across retailers that will sell one or the other but not both? I could be wrong.

They could be more readily available, certainly.
 

Haywain

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I think a lot of the limitations of online retailers' PlusBus offerings would be laid bare if there weren't ticket offices, though. People wanting PlusBuses for their origin *and* their destination. People wanting one for a station of their choice in conjunction with a day Ranger.
I think most retailers would be happy to ditch PlusBus completely if they could. Low volume, low value products are not what they want to putting any effort into. Fulfilment to eTicket will ease some of that but there's still no worthwhile money in PlusBus. And I say this as someone who has used it for many years.
 

redreni

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I think most retailers would be happy to ditch PlusBus completely if they could. Low volume, low value products are not what they want to putting any effort into. Fulfilment to eTicket will ease some of that but there's still no worthwhile money in PlusBus. And I say this as someone who has used it for many years.
Well, quite. Which is why I would prefer, rather than seeing specs for retailers that allow them to sell PlusBus if they wish, to see specs that require them to offer it.

I know some would see that as overly restrictive and bureaucratic, but I really think it's something the scheme needs. I remember back in the 90s, when most tickets were still bought from ticket offices, seeing "ask me about PlusBus" stickers going up at the windows. Let's be honest, it's never been very popular, but I do suspect the proportion of people who buy their ticket without ever seeing anything to alert them to the scheme's existence has very likely increased over the years, which will have contributed to the low sales volumes seen now.

It's not necessarily unpopular purely because nobody uses buses or people don't want it. I travelled on buses from Stroud to Nailsworth and back recently along with about 20 others who I know had arrived in Stroud by train and who overpaid for that journey because they were unaware of the PlusBus scheme and/or they weren't offered a PlusBus ticket at any point.
 

alistairlees

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Well, quite. Which is why I would prefer, rather than seeing specs for retailers that allow them to sell PlusBus if they wish, to see specs that require them to offer it.

I know some would see that as overly restrictive and bureaucratic, but I really think it's something the scheme needs. I remember back in the 90s, when most tickets were still bought from ticket offices, seeing "ask me about PlusBus" stickers going up at the windows. Let's be honest, it's never been very popular, but I do suspect the proportion of people who buy their ticket without ever seeing anything to alert them to the scheme's existence has very likely increased over the years, which will have contributed to the low sales volumes seen now.

It's not necessarily unpopular purely because nobody uses buses or people don't want it. I travelled on buses from Stroud to Nailsworth and back recently along with about 20 others who I know had arrived in Stroud by train and who overpaid for that journey because they were unaware of the PlusBus scheme and/or they weren't offered a PlusBus ticket at any point.
More requirements, but no more reward, is your proposal? Retailers are subject to an endless stream of cost-increasing requirements from RDG. Meanwhile the commission rate went down on 1st April.
 

redreni

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More requirements, but no more reward, is your proposal? Retailers are subject to an endless stream of cost-increasing requirements from RDG. Meanwhile the commission rate went down on 1st April.
I am proposing an additional requirement, yes.

I did not say anything either way about whether it should come with a reward, or indeed whether the package is fair for retailers currently. I know very little about that.
 

Vexed

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Well, good news, TrainSplit is now selling eTicket PlusBus for St Albans. Not yet available as an eTicket on GTR's websites, I haven't checked other retailers.
 

MrJeeves

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Well, good news, TrainSplit is now selling eTicket PlusBus for St Albans. Not yet available as an eTicket on GTR's websites, I haven't checked other retailers.
LNER are selling E-Ticket PlusBus too, but I can't see anyone else doing it yet...
 

James H

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Does anyone know if the wider rollout of Plusbus E-tickets means that bus ticket machines (eg Ticketer) can now scan them, or are they still intended as flash passes?

And have bus drivers been briefed on the change?
 

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